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Reaganism created the largest economy in the world.....

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  • Reaganism created the largest economy in the world.....

    ...but it wasn't the USA that Reaganism helped, no sir, but it was a communist state called the people's republic of china.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVPkYj3MIN0

    Clearly the worst and most disasterous president America has ever had, and yet many cons still worship the ground the man walked on.

    Yet this Reaganism is still what dictates economic policy today, embraced by both parties, with some pushback from the dems, but not much.

    So in regards to the newest addition of Reaganism, we have the TPP, which is the only thing the republicans have agree with Obama on. And that means given the history of the republicans and Obama for the past 7 years, when the repubs agree with Obama, you better pull out the KY jelly and get ready, if you have to work for a living, to get in practice for your next colonoscophy.

    So, let's take one for the gipper.

  • #2
    Shh... nobody tell Blue Doggy that it was Nixon that opened up relations with China.

    Still, the question of why Obama, or even Clinton before him, would turn on his union masters is a valid one.

    To find the answer, one has to understand the fundamental truth of the welfare state. The welfare state depends on a large pool of productive workers, many times larger than the pool of those who would receive of the fruit of others labors. This was the demographic environment in which social security was enacted. Indeed, at the time, the average life expectancy did not even reach the age required to collect. Even the so called "Great Society" was born in the midst of the baby boom. An advocate of that program could be forgiven, for given the trends of the times gives credence to the assumption that their program would only ever be a light burden on the population, if the program itself was anything less than institutionalized pillage. But population is a fickle creature, which is why basing a safety net on the actions of another generation is doomed to failure. The baby boomers did not, as a whole, fulfill the responsibility to rear a generation of sufficient size to support themselves. This fact was taught to me by my high school history teacher, himself the teachers union representative, and an effective one at that. Rare this day in age is a teacher honest enough to tell his students that they would have to support a third of the population with social security alone when his generation retired. His only solution was to "get good jobs", because he intended to collect. One could blame sex, drugs, and rock & roll, but the Malthusian myth was alive and well long before Elvis ever shook his hips. Suffice to say that the welfare state as currently constituted is unsustainable, with an insufficient work force to support its recipients, without a great deal more draconian pillaging of private property.

    Both parties know this. The conservative approach is to encourage everyone to invest their own resources and eliminate the need for government welfare. This approach is not without pitfalls, as resources can be poured into unsound investments, and the drive to provide a return on those resources can tempt managers to cut corners. But, that is the price of freedom.

    The "progressive" approach is to gain control these investments. But in order to steal from them, there needs to be something to steal from. That is why all but the most puritanical adherents to the cult of State will sign deals with the "devil" to prop it up. The trouble is that this excessive demand only exaggerates the problems of mis-investment.

    ?


    • #3
      Yay; Thom Hartmann found a new world order fan to talk to;

      http://www.infowars.com/financial-times-editorial-admits-agenda-for-dictatorial-world-government/

      BD, you really need to stop swimming in the pond scum of the internet.

      ?


      • #4
        Originally posted by CYDdharta View Post
        Yay; Thom Hartmann found a new world order fan to talk to;

        http://www.infowars.com/financial-times-editorial-admits-agenda-for-dictatorial-world-government/

        BD, you really need to stop swimming in the pond scum of the internet.
        Oh, so I should trust FOX and the others in MSM? LOL.

        If it was only Hartmann informing people of the facts, he could be dismissed. But when you look at what neo feudalism has created for the American worker, the close to 100 million who will never own a living wage job again, and then you listen to others like Nader and Hedges, Steele, and a whole host of others who are presenting facts instead of propaganda, and which simple personal observation validates....well, FOX and MSM will not inform americans of the fact. So thank god we have men who are not owned and who will present the facts, which can be validated with some time spent on research, even as the eyes have already validated the facts.

        Reaganism, carried on by Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, has hollowed out America, continues to do so, and you are somehow, someway trying to say it isn't a fact? You should look at your own sources for information, for obviously you are eating up the bullshit and think its ice cream.

        We are where we are at because of a change in economic models. This change really took off under Reagan, and has been carried forward by each president and every congress since that time. This is what the facts reveal. How you can reject it is of course easily understood. You think Reagan was a great president, and you will somehow reject that with him came the birth of the new economic model.that led to the rise of china, as our jobs were shipped there, our technology just given away as a part of the deal in return for MNCs getting slave labor. That is the fact, even if it is inconvenient for right wingers. Just saying no, deriding the messengers, doesn't change reality.

        The maximization of corporate profits by the MNCs who were able to go to china for slave labor, giving that communist gov't partial ownership of each MNC factory there, with those MNCs also just giving away the technology so china could copy it, and then allowing America to buy 90 percent of consumer goods from china, is what fueled their exponential economic growth, and this began with the change that came with Reagan, which took decades to play out. In the process America was and is being hollowed out. Anyone who would try to deny this, by calling in question a source I used, is just absurd. How can anyone not see the fact here? China would not be where she is, if not for the change that came with Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama. Globalization, which is nothing more than increasing MNC profits by be able to exploit the poor who will work for cents on the dollar, taking away americans making what they consumed. Fact. Fact. Fact.
        Last edited by Blue Doggy; 05-31-2015, 07:18 AM.

        ?


        • #5
          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

          Oh, so I should trust FOX and the others in MSM? LOL.

          If it was only Hartmann informing people of the facts, he could be dismissed. But when you look at what neo feudalism has created for the American worker, the close to 100 million who will never own a living wage job again, and then you listen to others like Nader and Hedges, Steele, and a whole host of others who are presenting facts instead of propaganda, and which simple personal observation validates....well, FOX and MSM will not inform americans of the fact. So thank god we have men who are not owned and who will present the facts, which can be validated with some time spent on research, even as the eyes have already validated the facts.

          Reaganism, carried on by Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, has hollowed out America, continues to do so, and you are somehow, someway trying to say it isn't a fact? You should look at your own sources for information, for obviously you are eating up the bullshit and think its ice cream.

          We are where we are at because of a change in economic models. This change really took off under Reagan, and has been carried forward by each president and every congress since that time. This is what the facts reveal. How you can reject it is of course easily understood. You think Reagan was a great president, and you will somehow reject that with him came the birth of the new economic model.that led to the rise of china, as our jobs were shipped there, our technology just given away as a part of the deal in return for MNCs getting slave labor. That is the fact, even if it is inconvenient for right wingers. Just saying no, deriding the messengers, doesn't change reality.

          The maximization of corporate profits by the MNCs who were able to go to china for slave labor, giving that communist gov't partial ownership of each MNC factory there, with those MNCs also just giving away the technology so china could copy it, and then allowing America to buy 90 percent of consumer goods from china, is what fueled their exponential economic growth, and this began with the change that came with Reagan, which took decades to play out. In the process America was and is being hollowed out. Anyone who would try to deny this, by calling in question a source I used, is just absurd. How can anyone not see the fact here? China would not be where she is, if not for the change that came with Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama. Globalization, which is nothing more than increasing MNC profits by be able to exploit the poor who will work for cents on the dollar, taking away americans making what they consumed. Fact. Fact. Fact.

          You? Listen to the MSM or Fox News, which isnt part of the MSM??? Perish the thought; they may not feed your conspiratorial delusions. Things were so much better before Reagan, when everything came from Japan and Taiwan instead of China, like it does now. Lets take a look at whats actually happening to jobs from a real news source;


          McConway & Torley employs 420 workers, 311 hourly and 109 salaried; of the salaried jobs, 43 are considered highly technical positions.

          In addition, the foundry maintains a 60-percent employment rate for minorities.

          That's like manna from heaven to the left except when it isn't.

          You see, on the same night that the city hosted a conference with Nordic countries about social sustainability (talking to each other), urban fabric (city living) and carbon footprint transference (walking), the health department held a public hearing in the once working-class, now upwardly-mobile neighborhood where the foundry sits.

          That hearing was about a plan to reduce the foundry's steel production by 77 percent. And that would take away the one thing everyone says they want to create through manufacturing middle-class jobs.

          The plant's opponents basically want the foundry out of Pittsburgh, a city once known for a skilled labor force that made stuff.

          It is an aggressive effort by GASP (Group Against Smog and Pollution), funded by the Heinz Endowments to the tune of $350,000 in 2014 the same foundation funding the city's conference with Nordic countries that local Democrat leaders hailed as the direction the region should go.

          The same thing is happening in the coal industry.

          Last week, 2,200 coal miners in this region woke up without jobs because of regulations imposed by the Obama administration.

          This problem isn't just found here in the Rust Belt. It's found across the country, and it is proving to be the driving force in presidential politics.

          It doesn't affect just the white working class; minorities make up a majority of McConway & Torley's workers, even as the nation's minority unemployment rate is double that of whites.

          The confluence of working-class jobs and leftist economics is part of a larger problem the growing separation our country is experiencing between the elite and the working class. The candidate who understands this cultural gulf, who can connect the two sides instead of encouraging the divide, will win.
          http://triblive.com/opinion/salena/8...#axzz3bjaz4rj7

          The real problem is that liberals are more concerned with cutting greenhouse gasses and saving the pink fairy armadillo than creating or even maintaining good middle-class jobs. Of course, you already know this. Yet you prattle on and on about multinationals, and China, and the evils of Capitalism and how all the worlds ills are the fault of the US. I knew Id heard bleating like that before, but couldnt quite remember where. Then last week I was watching The Spy Who Loved Me, and there it was. You sound just like the evil mastermind Stromberg when hes telling James Bond why he intends to nuke DC and Moscow.

          Facts?!? You don't care about facts, only your own dementia.

          ?


          • #6
            Just the fact that you consider wildlife protection as somehow bad is one of the many reasons why I hope US republicans spend a long long time in the wilderness.

            ?


            • #7
              Originally posted by CYDdharta View Post


              You? Listen to the MSM or Fox News, which isnt part of the MSM??? Perish the thought; they may not feed your conspiratorial delusions. Things were so much better before Reagan, when everything came from Japan and Taiwan instead of China, like it does now. Lets take a look at whats actually happening to jobs from a real news source;




              http://triblive.com/opinion/salena/8...#axzz3bjaz4rj7

              The real problem is that liberals are more concerned with cutting greenhouse gasses and saving the pink fairy armadillo than creating or even maintaining good middle-class jobs. Of course, you already know this. Yet you prattle on and on about multinationals, and China, and the evils of Capitalism and how all the worlds ills are the fault of the US. I knew Id heard bleating like that before, but couldnt quite remember where. Then last week I was watching The Spy Who Loved Me, and there it was. You sound just like the evil mastermind Stromberg when hes telling James Bond why he intends to nuke DC and Moscow.

              Facts?!? You don't care about facts, only your own dementia.
              Everything was not from Taiwan nor Japan. When did you start buying consumer goods? Me? In the early 60s. Most things were made in America, and then Japan became known for electronics and cameras. And they made some great ones. The first Japanese thing I ever saw was in the mid 50s, and they were these cheap transistor radios, which would last for a month or two. I owned a few of them. The good ones came from GE though, at twice the price of the Jap made ones. That is how they got into our market at first, with the cheaply made stuff. But if you wanted a good one, you got an American made. The tiawanese made things were found in dime stores, mostly toys, cheap. I owned those too. But the good toys were made in America.

              FOX is just as much a part of MSM as MSNBC, their counterpart, with both being overtly partisan, and overtly the arms of the two respective parties in peddling the propaganda. The others in MSM are propaganda outlets for the big corporations that own them, but it crosses over also with FOX and MSNBC.

              But back to what I was saying Anyone with a brain knows what Reagan brought in with him. It's just some conservatives that refuse to admit it because he set us on this road of neo feudalistic globalization via these free trade agreements that hollowed out America, in the interest of corporations and banksters. That is a fact, which you and others just will not accept because you know damn well what it has done to average americans. And I am not defending the democrats here, because Clinton who wanted that corporate money the repubs were getting committed treason on the American workers by going along with the republican NAFTA, with many of the dems in congress committing treason with him. This is a fact, born out by exactly what happened in the 90s with Clinton.

              You guys are not entitled to your own facts when it comes to what actually happened, and which really went into overdrive with Reagan, the most treasonous president the republican voters ever put into office, by appealing to populism, which is what the repubs never did in modern history. The suffering caused by the tripling of energy prices, also had the economy stagnant, for it would take years for our economy to adjust to this, and the repubs took advantage of it, by lying with saying gov't was the problem for the bad economy. It wasn't, and had everything to do with the unstableness in fossil fuels, the embargo, the exponential price rise in gas and oil, which would have done this with any economy dependent upon fossil fuels.

              You keep trying to use FOX spin and you are gonna get so dizzy that you fall over and bust your ass. Too bad it won't knock some common sense into that conservative head. I despise both parties, for both are guilty, with the dems being the worse of the two, for they used to represent average americans while the elite repubs, the party of the royals, never did. That a working guy would vote for the repubs, is suicidal, yet they continue to do it. The same can be said for the people who vote for the dems. It's time for working people to vote in their own best interest and vote for one of the 3rd parties, for at least there you will get some representation.

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              • #8
                I love the way BD rewrites history.

                1. America sucks.

                2. the Reagan expansion where everyone made oodles of money including the poorest people moving up never happened.

                3. Socialism is the way to go, which is why Cuba is paradise and the USSR is no longer here.

                4. Capitalism is awful, which is why it created the greatest country the world has ever seen; and he can't understand why everyone wanted to come here instead of the socialist Eastern bloc.

                5. Did I mention America sucks?!?!?!?!?!

                Hey, what do I know? Just because he can't figure out how to pay for any of his ideas and wants, we will just charge our kids and grandkids for his..........ummmmm, I mean our largesse. And what the heck, lets cut a deal with the Iran, all of the nuts in the Middle East cause it is our fault, then turn around and demand the Patriot act to protect us.......from whom? Why do we need this act, if all these people are so wonderful we can cut a deal with them?!?!?!?!

                Wish I lived in this reality, I really do. Watching people from Europe tell you how to do things because the standard of living is so close, tells you how far off track we are, lol. They used to be a gnat on our rearends as we hosed them every way imaginable. What happened? The left wanted us to look like our forefathers, and here we are.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                  Everything was not from Taiwan nor Japan. When did you start buying consumer goods? Me? In the early 60s. Most things were made in America, and then Japan became known for electronics and cameras. And they made some great ones. The first Japanese thing I ever saw was in the mid 50s, and they were these cheap transistor radios, which would last for a month or two. I owned a few of them. The good ones came from GE though, at twice the price of the Jap made ones. That is how they got into our market at first, with the cheaply made stuff. But if you wanted a good one, you got an American made. The tiawanese made things were found in dime stores, mostly toys, cheap. I owned those too. But the good toys were made in America.

                  FOX is just as much a part of MSM as MSNBC, their counterpart, with both being overtly partisan, and overtly the arms of the two respective parties in peddling the propaganda. The others in MSM are propaganda outlets for the big corporations that own them, but it crosses over also with FOX and MSNBC.

                  But back to what I was saying Anyone with a brain knows what Reagan brought in with him. It's just some conservatives that refuse to admit it because he set us on this road of neo feudalistic globalization via these free trade agreements that hollowed out America, in the interest of corporations and banksters. That is a fact, which you and others just will not accept because you know damn well what it has done to average americans. And I am not defending the democrats here, because Clinton who wanted that corporate money the repubs were getting committed treason on the American workers by going along with the republican NAFTA, with many of the dems in congress committing treason with him. This is a fact, born out by exactly what happened in the 90s with Clinton.

                  You guys are not entitled to your own facts when it comes to what actually happened, and which really went into overdrive with Reagan, the most treasonous president the republican voters ever put into office, by appealing to populism, which is what the repubs never did in modern history. The suffering caused by the tripling of energy prices, also had the economy stagnant, for it would take years for our economy to adjust to this, and the repubs took advantage of it, by lying with saying gov't was the problem for the bad economy. It wasn't, and had everything to do with the unstableness in fossil fuels, the embargo, the exponential price rise in gas and oil, which would have done this with any economy dependent upon fossil fuels.

                  You keep trying to use FOX spin and you are gonna get so dizzy that you fall over and bust your ass. Too bad it won't knock some common sense into that conservative head. I despise both parties, for both are guilty, with the dems being the worse of the two, for they used to represent average americans while the elite repubs, the party of the royals, never did. That a working guy would vote for the repubs, is suicidal, yet they continue to do it. The same can be said for the people who vote for the dems. It's time for working people to vote in their own best interest and vote for one of the 3rd parties, for at least there you will get some representation.

                  During the 50s and 60s American made stuff was the best, and the Jap stuff was junk, the hippy libs hadnt started destroying the country yet. During the 70s and 80s, the quality of Japanese goods and the Japanese work ethic put America to shame. Japan was going to take over the world starting with the US;

                  http://www.businessinsider.com/japan...ee-2013-1?op=1

                  You know, all the same things everyone is moaning about now with China. And as everyone who lived thru them knows, the Reagan years were an era of lowering unemployment, rising GDP, and rising personal income and personal disposable income. WTF BD, what country were you living in during the 80s? If you were here, were you hiding in a basement or on a decade long bender?

                  If being a member of the mainstream media means pedaling propaganda, then founding Air America business partner Thom Hartmann is a star member of the club. Not too many people get their own prime-time daily show (and even fewer watch it) on a propaganda spewing outlet like Russia Today (RT).

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                  • #10
                    It really frosts me when some lib or socialist tries to rewrite history. It is so damn depressing to listen to how CONSEVATIVE GW screwed everything up. Here is a news update........we have had only 1 conservative President in office in my adult life, and that was Reagan. All the things we are experiencing today were done by rinos and libs. The only other time conservatives had a decent amount of power was during the Clinton administration and the "contract with America" years. Those turned out pretty decent also, as even the left admits.

                    I did not like Bill Clinton, but the economy was pretty good as he and the CONSERVATIVE speaker hammered out an agenda that got both sides some of what they wanted, and kept our economy strong. This goofiness you are seeing today is a total meltdown of Washington under far left and rino control; NOT conservative control. Why do you libs think that your party wants to paint every republican as a conservative? Because over 1/2 of the democrats voted for Reagan after he ignited the economy and all the blue collar people went back to work, and worked OVER TIME!!!!

                    Young people do not know this because they were either not born, or to young to remember, but if BD is really as old as he claims he is, not only does he know better, but I am starting to think he is honestly a propagandist!

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                    • #11
                      The economy was strong in the 90's because of the overwhelming force of technological innovation. No matter what Al Gore tells you, neither party can take credit for that.

                      And that's the way it should be.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Imawhosure View Post
                        It really frosts me when some lib or socialist tries to rewrite history. It is so damn depressing to listen to how CONSEVATIVE GW screwed everything up. Here is a news update........we have had only 1 conservative President in office in my adult life, and that was Reagan. All the things we are experiencing today were done by rinos and libs. The only other time conservatives had a decent amount of power was during the Clinton administration and the "contract with America" years. Those turned out pretty decent also, as even the left admits.

                        I did not like Bill Clinton, but the economy was pretty good as he and the CONSERVATIVE speaker hammered out an agenda that got both sides some of what they wanted, and kept our economy strong. This goofiness you are seeing today is a total meltdown of Washington under far left and rino control; NOT conservative control. Why do you libs think that your party wants to paint every republican as a conservative? Because over 1/2 of the democrats voted for Reagan after he ignited the economy and all the blue collar people went back to work, and worked OVER TIME!!!!

                        Young people do not know this because they were either not born, or to young to remember, but if BD is really as old as he claims he is, not only does he know better, but I am starting to think he is honestly a propagandist!
                        Right wing proponents will be able to correct their mistakes, but only if they admit to them first. Clinton and the right wing Congress did away with Glas-Steagall which was a huge mistake.
                        Left wing folks can do this with decent results. LBJ signed off on some great legislation, like the voting rights act. But he screwed up big time by scaling up the Vietnam War. See? One can even throw near-heroes under the bus to admit to a policy mistake.

                        Of course, if you don't feel conservatives ever make mistakes, try selling that during the next campaign. "He did something bad, therefore he wasn't a conservative" is the line on Bush 43, now? This will be a fun campaign.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                          Right wing proponents will be able to correct their mistakes, but only if they admit to them first. Clinton and the right wing Congress did away with Glas-Steagall which was a huge mistake.
                          Left wing folks can do this with decent results. LBJ signed off on some great legislation, like the voting rights act. But he screwed up big time by scaling up the Vietnam War. See? One can even throw near-heroes under the bus to admit to a policy mistake.

                          Of course, if you don't feel conservatives ever make mistakes, try selling that during the next campaign. "He did something bad, therefore he wasn't a conservative" is the line on Bush 43, now? This will be a fun campaign.

                          Bush was never really a conservative. He didn't run as a real conservative, and he didn't act like one in office. He ran as a compassionate conservative, aka a moderate.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                            Right wing proponents will be able to correct their mistakes, but only if they admit to them first. Clinton and the right wing Congress did away with Glas-Steagall which was a huge mistake...
                            Some here won't believe this, but I agree with this, Wall St is not path to financial independence. The trouble is that reinstating Glass-Steagall without first undoing the cultural institution that is the "nest egg" that has eggsploded since its repeal would do far more harm than good. Trillions in spreadsheet digits will disappear automatically, Wall st will rain men, and economy will implode. We need to get people to withdraw from their 401ks gradually, and invest in things that will systematically eliminate your monthly bills and last you 20+ years after you intend to retire. Land, durable structures, solar panels, tools, long lasting transportation, controlled environment agriculture systems, ect. Building a personal, physical infrastructure will not only sustain you in your retirement, but will also benefit you right now, and every day until you retire, and can not evaporate into thin air if someone you've never met who is in charge of managing your fund is dealt a 22.

                            What I find hilarious is how the left worships the ground that Clinton walks on, and are eager to elect his wife, while simultaneously wanting to undo practically everything he signed into law. The Glass-Steagall repeal, NAFTA, the Crime Bill, Welfare Reform, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the Defense of Marriage Act, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and the Iraqi Liberation Act where all signed into law by Clinton, and are all hated by liberals. Clinton should be hated by the left, as should anyone bearing his name. But they have fallen for him, like stary-eyed waifs. Pelvic sorcery is the only explanation.
                            Last edited by Commodore; 06-03-2015, 12:02 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Commodore View Post

                              Some here won't believe this, but I agree with this, Wall St is not path to financial independence. The trouble is that reinstating Glass-Steagall without first undoing the cultural institution that is the "nest egg" that has eggsploded since its repeal would do far more harm than good. Trillions in spreadsheet digits will disappear automatically, Wall st will rain men, and economy will implode. We need to get people to withdraw from their 401ks gradually, and invest in things that will systematically eliminate your monthly bills and last you 20+ years after you intend to retire. Land, durable structures, solar panels, tools, long lasting transportation, controlled environment agriculture systems, ect. Building a personal, physical infrastructure will not only sustain you in your retirement, but will also benefit you right now, and every day until you retire, and can not evaporate into thin air if someone you've never met who is in charge of managing your fund is dealt a 22.

                              What I find hilarious is how the left worships the ground that Clinton walks on, and are eager to elect his wife, while simultaneously wanting to undo practically everything he signed into law. The Glass-Steagall repeal, NAFTA, the Crime Bill, Welfare Reform, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the Defense of Marriage Act, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and the Iraqi Liberation Act where all signed into law by Clinton, and are all hated by liberals. Clinton should be hated by the left, as should anyone bearing his name. But they have fallen for him, like stary-eyed waifs. Pelvic sorcery is the only explanation.
                              Glad we agree on Clinton, and his wife is just like him. Yet she still leads on the democratic side, which is proof positive that Hedges is absolutely right about the death of liberalism, which was the only force that protected working people from the greed of banksters and big corporations. That is the role it served, and now, its gone, probably until after our economy implodes and people are forced back into some common sense.

                              The dems, the repubs, are all enablers and creators of the corporate state, the oligarchy, the plutocracy, or whatever name you want to choose to signify that the People have lost all representation. And the stupidity of the American voter, be he conservative or liberal is at the end of the day, to blame for this, for they keep putting the same people back in. And now it looks like it might be Clinton against bush, two of the biggest corporate state people. Not a dimes worth of difference between them when it comes to our economy. And really not that much difference when it comes to congress. Not on the most important issue, the economy, for it affects every working American.

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