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No, not communism, nor socialism, but oligarchy...

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  • No, not communism, nor socialism, but oligarchy...

    Here is a good article, that hits the nail on the head.., and it would be impossible for an objective mind to refute it, IMO, but you are welcomed to make that attempt....

    You often hear inequality has widened because globalization and technological change have made most people less competitive, while making the best educated more competitive. There’s some truth to this. The tasks most people used to do can now be done more cheaply by lower-paid workers abroad or by computer-driven machines.
    But this common explanation overlooks a critically important phenomenon: the increasing concentration of political power in a corporate and financial elite that has been able to influence the rules by which the economy runs.



    As I argue in my new book, “Saving Capitalism: For the Many, Not the Few” (out this week), this transformation has amounted to a pre-distribution upward.
    Intellectual property rights—patents, trademarks, and copyrights—have been enlarged and extended, for example, creating windfalls for pharmaceutical companies.
    Americans now pay the highest pharmaceutical costs of any advanced nation.
    At the same time, antitrust laws have been relaxed for corporations with significant market power, such as big food companies, cable companies facing little or no broadband competition, big airlines, and the largest Wall Street banks.
    As a result, Americans pay more for broadband Internet, food, airline tickets, and banking services than the citizens of any other advanced nation.
    Bankruptcy laws have been loosened for large corporations—airlines, automobile manufacturers, even casino magnates like Donald Trump—allowing them to leave workers and communities stranded.
    But bankruptcy has not been extended to homeowners burdened by mortgage debt or to graduates laden with student debt. Their debts won’t be forgiven.
    The largest banks and auto manufacturers were bailed out in 2008, shifting the risks of economic failure onto the backs of average working people and taxpayers.
    Contract laws have been altered to require mandatory arbitration before private judges selected by big corporations. Securities laws have been relaxed to allow insider trading of confidential information.
    CEOs now use stock buybacks to boost share prices when they cash in their own stock options.


    Tax laws have special loopholes for the partners of hedge funds and private-equity funds, special favors for the oil and gas industry, lower marginal income-tax rates on the highest incomes, and reduced estate taxes on great wealth.
    Meanwhile, so-called “free trade” agreements, such as the pending Trans Pacific Partnership, give stronger protection to intellectual property and financial assets but less protection to the labor of average working Americans.
    Today, nearly one out of every three working Americans is in a part-time job. Many are consultants, freelancers, and independent contractors. Two-thirds are living paycheck to paycheck.
    And employment benefits have shriveled. The portion of workers with any pension connected to their job has fallen from just over half in 1979 to under 35 percent today.
    Labor unions have been eviscerated. Fifty years ago, when General Motors was the largest employer in America, the typical GM worker, backed by a strong union, earned $35 an hour in today’s dollars.
    Now America’s largest employer is Walmart, and the typical entry-level Walmart worker, without a union, earns about $9 an hour.
    More states have adopted so-called “right-to-work” laws, designed to bust unions. The National Labor Relations Board, understaffed and overburdened, has barely enforced collective bargaining.
    All of these changes have resulted in higher corporate profits, higher returns for shareholders, and higher pay for top corporate executives and Wall Street bankers – and lower pay and higher prices for most other Americans.
    They amount to a giant pre-distribution upward to the rich. But we’re not aware of them because they’re hidden inside the market.
    The underlying problem, then, is not just globalization and technological changes that have made most American workers less competitive. Nor is it that they lack enough education to be sufficiently productive.


    The more basic problem is that the market itself has become tilted ever more in the direction of moneyed interests that have exerted disproportionate influence over it, while average workers have steadily lost bargaining power—both economic and political—to receive as large a portion of the economy’s gains as they commanded in the first three decades after World War II.
    Reversing the scourge of widening inequality requires reversing the upward pre-distributions within the rules of the market, and giving average people the bargaining power they need to get a larger share of the gains from growth.
    The answer to this problem is not found in economics. It is found in politics. Ultimately, the trend toward widening inequality in America, as elsewhere, can be reversed only if the vast majority join together to demand fundamental change.
    The most important political competition over the next decades will not be between the right and left, or between Republicans and Democrats. It will be between a majority of Americans who have been losing ground, and an economic elite that refuses to recognize or respond to its growing distress
    That this backs up what I have been saying for years is no surprise, for what I have been maintaining is so obvious, that a rational mind cannot honestly object.

    So, the question is, who are the people responsible, which politicians, notably, were involved in this neoliberal economic treason?

    Ok, I will start it out, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama. But who else in congress are the men guilty of economic treason upon the average American? Or is it basically ALL of them except Bernie Sanders?

    And we used to have members here, who agreed with what has been done to our economic model. They basically said, that americans did not deserve a living wage, making what we consume in the smaller consumer goods, and that the 80 cents an hour paid to the communists was what it was worth. That they could make this judgement, after we paid living wages since the great depression for these jobs, surely is just an indicator of a particular right wing ideological belief, that determines what working people are worth. That they do not think that working people are worth much, is a given, and a peculiar thing within this way of thinking. Yet the same people holler that work should have value, within this society. And that we should value work. Just another incoherence that is so blatant with these thinkers.

    http://www.alternet.org/economy/robe...gainst-rest-us
    Last edited by Blue Doggy; 09-30-2015, 12:07 PM.

  • #2
    The UK will be a good test case for whether or not a decent minimum wage destroys an economy as our minimum wage is increasing quite a bit over the next 5 years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living...United_Kingdom

    The living wage is now law and replaces the minimum wage and is going up to £9($13.63) an hour by 2020.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
      The UK will be a good test case for whether or not a decent minimum wage destroys an economy as our minimum wage is increasing quite a bit over the next 5 years.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living...United_Kingdom

      The living wage is now law and replaces the minimum wage and is going up to £9($13.63) an hour by 2020.
      It will be interesting to watch and see the economy of the UK implode, and you guys turn into a 3rd world country.

      If we simply adjusted up our 1968 min wage, for inflation alone, it would be around 12 bucks an hour today. Now if 12 bucks an hour would destroy our economy, we would have seen it destroyed in 1968. So, these conservative arguments, if a pail, would leak the water out in a couple of minutes. We already know what a min wage being 12 bucks an hour does, and it does not hurt americans, but helps them. But when we finally do raise it up to at least what it was in 1968, this time we need to from there on out, adjust it to inflation, so that it does not fall to almost half of what it once was. And in fact, we need to forget about the min wage, and make it a federal law that all jobs, that if they are essential, or needed, in our nation, pay a living wage. For the very idea of paying someone less than they need to live on, is not only absurd, but its just basically immoral. It is hardly little better than slavery, for it exploits people, who must work, but it exploits them, because they need a job in order to survive.

      Of course you move up the wage in increments, so the system gets adjusted to it, over years, but the system and business will adjust to it, as they were adjusted to it in 1968.

      Just a shame that with people making more money, and buying consumer goods, that their dollars will not all stay here to fuel our economy, but will end up in the pockets of communists in china, soon to be Vietnam, and of course the MNCs who keep their profits offshore to get out of paying taxes. Not only do they no longer pay americans for their work, but they do not pay their taxes either, which makes em look and smell like the shitty little parasites that they are.
      Last edited by Blue Doggy; 10-02-2015, 05:10 PM.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        The funny part is the living wage was brought into law by the UK conservative party.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          The minimum wage laws will do little against larger corporate executives, since they are basing their labor cost savings on an entirely different model: Moving most or all of their production overseas to avoid our natural wage level . However, we'll continue to see arguments for/against minimum wage, based on how many corporations might move back to the US.

          It is all a false argument, because the real emphasis should be to encourage domestic employment. MNC's are not going to be the major employer (they are currently running under 50% of the US workforce and trending lower). Public policy that invites MNC's to shit or get off the pot are therefore in order: They are welcome to keep a small workforce in the US for Research and Development, as well as some administration staff. Otherwise, tax, gov't. contract and subsidy policy should benefit small and medium sized business over all MNC's.

          As for the working class (non-wealthy), we need to adjust our thinking on public welfare and prosperity. We are not going to get a steady rise in wages because expansion capitalism is coming to an end. Business doesn't expand consistently, so it doesn't expand it's payroll consistently. Since we live like the wealthy of 100 years ago (shelter, health, transportation, leisure time, etc), we no longer need to struggle to survive.

          IOW, the working class in developed countries has arrived. The struggle (for material survival) is over. What remains is to keep the pressure on tyrants around the world, particularly those parasites running developing countries. Their time comes to an end, and the working class around the world rises to material security. The struggle ends, the filthy rich are no longer subject to jealousy or extra tax, communism and capitalism lose their current meaning. How can that be? Because the most wealthy -the investment class- will no longer matter to the working class since they get their critical employment elsewhere. From dependable, local employers in both the private and public sector. This is what will replace both Constant Expansion Capitalism and standard-issue Socialism (communism).

          Ironic in a way. That is how capitalism began -with local employment. That is how it expanded -with the critical help of large public works projects (public sanitation, water, roads, etc.)

          How we survive our material comfort is another problem (fe, leisure time as one factor in drug abuse and family dysfunction). But the economic problem can easily be solved as long as we control our population numbers.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Originally posted by radcentr View Post
            The minimum wage laws will do little against larger corporate executives, since they are basing their labor cost savings on an entirely different model: Moving most or all of their production overseas to avoid our natural wage level . However, we'll continue to see arguments for/against minimum wage, based on how many corporations might move back to the US.

            It is all a false argument, because the real emphasis should be to encourage domestic employment. MNC's are not going to be the major employer (they are currently running under 50% of the US workforce and trending lower). Public policy that invites MNC's to shit or get off the pot are therefore in order: They are welcome to keep a small workforce in the US for Research and Development, as well as some administration staff. Otherwise, tax, gov't. contract and subsidy policy should benefit small and medium sized business over all MNC's.

            As for the working class (non-wealthy), we need to adjust our thinking on public welfare and prosperity. We are not going to get a steady rise in wages because expansion capitalism is coming to an end. Business doesn't expand consistently, so it doesn't expand it's payroll consistently. Since we live like the wealthy of 100 years ago (shelter, health, transportation, leisure time, etc), we no longer need to struggle to survive.

            IOW, the working class in developed countries has arrived. The struggle (for material survival) is over. What remains is to keep the pressure on tyrants around the world, particularly those parasites running developing countries. Their time comes to an end, and the working class around the world rises to material security. The struggle ends, the filthy rich are no longer subject to jealousy or extra tax, communism and capitalism lose their current meaning. How can that be? Because the most wealthy -the investment class- will no longer matter to the working class since they get their critical employment elsewhere. From dependable, local employers in both the private and public sector. This is what will replace both Constant Expansion Capitalism and standard-issue Socialism (communism).

            Ironic in a way. That is how capitalism began -with local employment. That is how it expanded -with the critical help of large public works projects (public sanitation, water, roads, etc.)

            How we survive our material comfort is another problem (fe, leisure time as one factor in drug abuse and family dysfunction). But the economic problem can easily be solved as long as we control our population numbers.
            I agree, the real emphasis, has to be to encourage domestic employment, but it cannot be jobs where the wages are so low that tax revenues have to subsidize wages, in order that the American worker can get the needed resources, and have a reasonable standard of living. Americans have to have some kind of security, for when this is missing, it reverberates throughout society, in various negative ways, violence, crime, instability, in the society itself.

            Small business cannot employ enough of our workforce, IF, MNCs are making what is consumed here, offshore, and then allowed to ship those goods and services back here. All jobs in the private sector involve making what we consume, and of course what is sent to be sold overseas. But you cannot replace making what is consumed here, with exports. That is a pipe dream. But it seems to be the pipe dream being sold to lots of people, that our workforce will supply the world with higher priced goods, more value added here, in their manufacture, than what is being made by cheap labor, the products that you find in every home, and the materials that every home is constructed of.

            Each nation has to make what its own people consume in goods and services, if that nation is to employ the max number of its own people. This will never change, that principle. When it is not used, it is in order to only benefit a group of elites who can get richer, by not allowing nations to do this. So, gov't policy now, is indeed not structured to employ americans, in order that they can support themselves, by their work. It has been structured in order that big business can max out their own profits and wealth, and the people who own stock in those businesses. That this will devastate a nation's people, who so few are rich, is the crime here, and the treason committed by a gov't upon its own people.

            Then there is the monkey wrench that gets thrown into the gears. As we move more and more to robotics and automation, even a nation that is making what it consumes, no longer needs enough of its own people, in order to make those goods, and supply those services. And making goods and supply services is the source of income that the people use, in order to buy those goods and services. So, capitalism, implodes, for it is only viable when it can produce the income in order to buy goods and services, and robots do not buy what humans have to buy in order to have a decent existence. It seems that capitalism itself, with its emphasis on maxing our profits of the owners, that removes human beings from the equation, is like a virulent cancer, that consumes its host, destroying capitalism. The only way around it, is to regress in manufacturing technology, which is a regression from maxing out wealth of the owners. As was discussed during the great depression, in order to get more people back into jobs, but of course which was rejected.

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            • #7
              Just started a new job in the past couple months, 90% of my work functions are being outsourced to a firm in Vietnam already...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                Just started a new job in the past couple months, 90% of my work functions are being outsourced to a firm in Vietnam already...
                Sorry to hear that. And normally it would elicit another rant from me, on the treason committed upon the American people by the establishment democratic and republican party.

                That sucking sound that Perot would know would happen, because the man had one of those common sense brains, and was actually of a group of men who actually cared about their nation, and her people, will continue on and on. Until every job possible is sucked to cheap labor, those that cannot be done by robots, are gone.

                And of course you are losing your work functions to a poor people who work for 56 cents and hour. Many of the right will holler its just taxes and regulations, or that you are not worth what you were being paid, with the rationalization that others in Vietnam will do it for 56 cents an hour, and if you were not so damned entitled to feel you deserve a living wage, you might be able to keep your job. Ok, not all cons are this stupid, to think in the manner I have laid out, but by George I have heard that said from some on the right in CTR, although they conveyed it in insinuations instead of having the balls to just come out and say it.

                I would only hope the people will wake up and realize that the men they put into office unless they come out like sanders and demands this be stopped, will only allow this devastating trend to continue, putting at risk our nation which is much more than a few elites at the top. Already many of these elites are buying up safe havens in place like New Zealand to get away from America when they destroy her, and the dirty rabbled masses come after their heads. For such a trend as took you job is insanity. It is the most destructive way for the rich to get richer.

                Now, all it takes from getting a reasonable conservative mind to ignore reality, to ignore what is, is to just utter that word, or words, socialism, communism. This puts an end to them seeing that this trend, given to us by first the GOP and then the democrats, and not to mention the learned men in ivory towers, is using the American people as a parasite uses its host. To suck the host dry of every last red cent possible.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                  The funny part is the living wage was brought into law by the UK conservative party.
                  I know nothing of UK politics, but obviously there is a difference in your conservatives and ours Are ours so far right as to be an aberration of conservatism?

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                  • #10
                    Whenever a firm outsources to stay profitable or to stay in business I wonder why they think it's a good idea because all they are doing is training the competition. Of course most of the guys at the very top, likely don't care about what is going to happen to a firm in 3 to 5 years, they'll have miked it for all it's worth and moved on. They expect us to sign away our rights and to piss in a cup to prove we are not an insurance risk but we are supposed to be good little drones and enjoy the trickle down our backs time after time.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                      Whenever a firm outsources to stay profitable or to stay in business I wonder why they think it's a good idea because all they are doing is training the competition. Of course most of the guys at the very top, likely don't care about what is going to happen to a firm in 3 to 5 years, they'll have miked it for all it's worth and moved on. They expect us to sign away our rights and to piss in a cup to prove we are not an insurance risk but we are supposed to be good little drones and enjoy the trickle down our backs time after time.
                      Nothing wrong with any corporation offshoring to make more profits from cheap labor. But they should sell what is made in china, in china, and our gov't should not allow them to be a parasite on America, by tariffing their cheaper made goods, in order so that someone here can still make those goods at our higher labor costs.

                      But clearly, our gov't no longer represents the best economic interests of her people. If they did, they would, by policy, protect American jobs, instead of only representing corporations who want to make more profits. Of course, the "protectionism" card gets played but, we protect our families, we protect our communities, we protect our states, and by George we should also protect our people, since having a living wage job is how americans survive.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                        Nothing wrong with any corporation offshoring to make more profits from cheap labor. But they should sell what is made in china, in china, and our gov't should not allow them to be a parasite on America, by tariffing their cheaper made goods, in order so that someone here can still make those goods at our higher labor costs.

                        But clearly, our gov't no longer represents the best economic interests of her people. If they did, they would, by policy, protect American jobs, instead of only representing corporations who want to make more profits. Of course, the "protectionism" card gets played but, we protect our families, we protect our communities, we protect our states, and by George we should also protect our people, since having a living wage job is how americans survive.

                        And, if that product is made here, it will cost more and the guy on the bottom rung will still not be able to afford to buy it. There have always been people who did not have a "living wage" job. When I was in the Air Force, I worked three jobs to make ends meet and I still didn't have a lot of the things I grew up with at home.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post


                          And, if that product is made here, it will cost more and the guy on the bottom rung will still not be able to afford to buy it. There have always been people who did not have a "living wage" job. When I was in the Air Force, I worked three jobs to make ends meet and I still didn't have a lot of the things I grew up with at home.
                          You are old enough, as I am, to well remember when most of what we bought for our homes, were made here, and in many cases, the americans who made those goods, were paid a living wage. And yet, even the poor had those items in their homes. So this argument just will not fly, for we did it for far too long to even give it consideration..

                          The mathematical certainty can not change, and that is, if we do not allow our own people to make what we consume here, with wages high enough to buy what they make, you can never employ enough americans, period, end of story. So, this creates poverty, in addition to the lazy bums who would not work in a pie factory, tasting pies. In addition to the people who are sick, disabled.

                          This, what we have allowed our gov't and elites to do to our economy, can never be excused, nor justified. Stop wasting your time. You are banging your head, against a mathematical certainty, or said differently, REALITY.

                          It is so odd that the word "protectionism" and "isolationism" has been such negative connotations over the last decades. As if both terms was the most horrible thing man ever conceived. When in fact protecting ones workforce is what we did for all of our history, as other nations did it too, in the interest of their own people The same way you would protect your family, the community in which you live, your state, all the way up to the nation, which is all of our people. The reason we protected our people, their jobs, is because that is what people have to have in order to live, and to thrive. We did not place the profits of the elites, above the people, for it would have been utter insanity, not that long ago to even consider such a thing.

                          Then there is isolationism, the term pulled out of the well worn propaganda deck, in order to justify meddling in the affairs of other nations, and even breaking international law, that our leaders after ww2 in large part WROTE. SO if some americans do not want to meddle in other sovereign nations, if they do not want to invade and change their people who rule, for it is against an international law, that we wrote, when we had some damned sense, then you get called an isolationist. It's rubbish and you know it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post


                            And, if that product is made here, it will cost more and the guy on the bottom rung will still not be able to afford to buy it. There have always been people who did not have a "living wage" job. When I was in the Air Force, I worked three jobs to make ends meet and I still didn't have a lot of the things I grew up with at home.
                            US companies generally set prices as high as they can sell, not based on the costs. That's just how American business works.

                            And if the costs go up, or down, the price often must stay the same. That means the owners, who often get a hell of a lot of money and do very little work to justify it, either eat the increased cost or reap the increased profit.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Slon View Post

                              US companies generally set prices as high as they can sell, not based on the costs. That's just how American business works.

                              And if the costs go up, or down, the price often must stay the same. That means the owners, who often get a hell of a lot of money and do very little work to justify it, either eat the increased cost or reap the increased profit.
                              In some cases, the price is simply, what the market will accept. Competition plays a role in this, but so does advertising. If you can convince someone that product A is better than product B, by advertising, then you can charge more for it, regardless of competition. Years ago, I wore the branded IZOD shirts. The one with the little alligator emblem on it. My wife, being concerned with such things, would buy these for me, until I found out what she was paying for them, at a local men's store. So, I get a consumer's report mag, that had the various branded shirts of this style, and found out that the identical styled shirt, sold at Target, for half the retail price, was a much superior shirt, in stitching and cloth. In other words, they last much longer, and did not fade out with washing as fast as the more expensive IZOD brand, that apparently people wanted, for it was some sort of status symbol, I reckon. For it had to be, given that a much higher quality shirt could be had, for half the price. It just did not have the little alligator on it is all. Who cares about alligators. Not me, I have always believed in buying quality, for quality last longer, and in the end, is cheaper.

                              But this idea of the oldman's, which others share, is claiming that we cannot make our consumer goods here, that we made for most of our history, for we pay out people too much to make them. This is just the excuse used to justify paying Vietnamese communists, 56 cents an hour, so that our MNCs can satiate their greed, in profits. Our corporations were not always allowed to do this, and they learned how to accept less profit. The idea back during the time of FDR was a "fair profit". Which meant not maxing out your profits, on the backs of the rest in society.

                              If you do not protect your own work force, which are your citizens, from the poor of the world, who will work for a bowl of rice a day, instead of starving, you will get what we have today in America. The end of the American dream. The end of prosperity for working people. 94 million who will never have a living wage job again, but boy oh boy, the elites rake in the dough like crazy, creating the greatest disparity in income, since the last time that neoliberal capitalism was used against the average American worker, for the sakes of the elites.


                              What really gripes my arse, is the fact, that conservatives, will bitch and moan, about the poor sucking at the taxpayer's teats, while their beliefs in regards to an economic model, and those beliefs keeping it in place, actually creates structural poverty, which they then refuse to admit, and blame it on laziness and an entitlement mentality, turning the victims of neoliberal capitalism, into being blamed for their structural poverty. Their acceptance of neoliberalism, actually creates poverty, by MNCs being allowed to not employ americans, even as they can sell those goods in America, and being nothing more than a parasite upon our markets. And then the displaced workers, who cannot get a job, for we are not making what we consume, are blamed, for what the MNCs did, and the MNCs are not held accountable. It is no different than a woman being raped by some rapist, and then the rapist is not blamed, but only the woman. I once heard a conservative southerner say, in reference to a rape on a campus here, that, "no wonder she got raped. Have you seen how these young girls run around these days, practically naked?". This is the same attitude towards our own citizens in reference to them being unemployed. It is their fault, for they just, in their greed, would not work for 56 cents and hour, and compete with poor communists.

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