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No, not communism, nor socialism, but oligarchy...

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  • #61
    Because China couldn't sell to someone else? No one can beat slave labor (near zero wages compared to other nations) for assembled products, and China has the largest population. If they can't sell internally, they have a very large number of nations willing to buy their cheap finished products.

    The commies have out-capitalized the capitalists, by getting to a near-zero wage faster than anyone else in the nearly-developed world. It also helps when they can construct and de-construct monopolies or cartels at will, and minimize regulations.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post


      If China cut off their supply lines to the U.S., it would go broke in weeks. It would be nothing but good for this country.

      No it wouldn't and the US would be just as hard hit as you get so much made by them.
      You may not believe this but China does sell to other countries in the world other than the US so while stopping trade with the US would be tough for them it wouldn't destroy them.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post


        No it wouldn't and the US would be just as hard hit as you get so much made by them.
        You may not believe this but China does sell to other countries in the world other than the US so while stopping trade with the US would be tough for them it wouldn't destroy them.
        Yep, our oligarchs and political parties colluded, and just stopped Americans to make what they consume, for one reason. To max out elite profits. It's GOP neoliberalism, that does not consider anyone but the greed driven elites. They do not represent the working American, and yet a large block of white working americans vote for them. Can you explain that insanity to me? Why would anyone vote for the guy with the sharp knife across his jugular? Why? What kinda of lies could a GOPher politician tell these people, in order to get them to commit economic suicide? And, is there any way in hell to cure these people? Is it some kind of mental affliction, that cuts off perception of reality? Is it just the power of a belief? We know man has killed one another for thousand of years, over religious beliefs. Beliefs! And why can people not be aware that their beliefs are determining their perception of reality? And perhaps, at least try to rise above that deep conditioning and look afresh at the world? Obviously the way they believe isn't solving anything, and creates new problems. And all because of a belief, manufactured by thought, based upon a corrupt view of reality.

        We might cure these people, by putting them through an Ayahuasca ritual, one of those week long ones, that pushes the brains reset switch, and brings back intelligence. They say, a conservative neoliberal is dramatically changed, and they cannot tolerate their prior belief system. They lose much of a selfishness that they use a misnomer and refer to as "individualism" They come into contact with the truth, that they are simply a part of a greater whole, and see themselves differently, more apt to believe in providing for the best interests of the group, not just a few individuals. They are more apt to believe in cooperation, and people working towards a common goal, the greatest good.. And of course they have to walk away from their conservative neoliberalism.

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        • #64
          Once the majority actually vote, and the majority of those realize the difference between Big Capitalism and free enterprise, it will settle back into a reality that can be managed. Until then, we have to deal with a large portion of people who believe they can achieve the grand luxury enjoyed by those at the top of the heap. We also have to deal with those same people believing the top of the heap will dedicate their resources to paying good wages to well educated people who grow up in a well financed, organized civil society, ruled by law.

          Capitalists are supposed to dedicate their resources (time & money) to making more money and expanding their business. Capitalists are not supposed to care for the poor, and are only interested in a civil society that supports capitalism. Not to criticize capitalism, just to point out to irrational people that capitalism is only one factor of any given economy, rather than the only factor. In short, we must convince the Dreamers that capitalists did not actually build all of it by themselves. Not too difficult, but it will require persistence, using the many examples provided by the non-capitalist portions of the economy. Then it is necessary to calm them down, assuring them that non-Dreamers want capitalists to participate, just not in the form of cartels or other forms that are "Too Big to Fail".

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          • #65
            Originally posted by radcentr View Post
            Germany has done one better by showing what prosperity results, with proper balance between socialist and capitalist economic factors. Link:

            http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...cts-inequality

            The reason the wealthy don't do as well in countries they completely dominate, is because of that domination. Communist countries fail in large part because the lower income groups consistently dominate policy decisions. Fascists fail because the wealthy are -by default- in the driver's seat. People complete the failure because they place their faith in a political class, which pretends to answer to the dominant class. We have seen what happens in "push comes to shove" situations: Dictators make people "disappear" within the dominant class, while the 'enemy' class is frequently disposed of in public. Proof (sarcasm) that the fearless leader is keeping the dominant ones "safe". The Republic, OTOH, triangulates power to ensure that no one can dominate the other without resistance. The working poor dominate and squeeze too much from the wealthy, innovators (wealthy job creators) leave or do not produce. Economy stagnates, socialist-leaning politicians take the blame and are voted out (Spain, former Soviet Union, etc.) OTOH, wealth-dominated leaders are unable to produce employment due to economic imbalance, which crashes against growing population, resulting in revolution (French, Bolshevik/Russian). Extremes in political and economic solutions are unnecessary, but only when people pay attention and use solutions from mixed market economies that have done well over time.
            Well, that's ordoliberal economics, also known as "social market economy" to Germans. Ordoliberalism ( nothing to do with american liberalism) puts economic sustainability and stability first and last and far ahead of growth. German pride is to a lesser extent linked to some subjective "greatness" over others and more to having learned the lessons from the 20th century and having managed an economic and political turnaround that few people would have predicted or considered possible two generations ago. Thus beeing beeing the "biggest" or "greatest" kid on the block is far less important than beeing the one with the most resilient economy, and Germanys performance after the financial crisis arguably demonstrates getting a couple of things right. Ordoliberals were an economic school originating in the 20s/30s, swept to power in post-WW II Western Germany, and faced with the enormous task of rebuilding a devastated country and economy they partially developed traditions going back as far as the medieval crafts guilds, like cooperative management structure, or to Bismarcks second empire, like universal healthcare, further. For ordoliberals social protection is not imposed by the state and seen as a liability , but on the contrary part of a social contract. Workers sitting on companies supervisory boards ( the law in Germany), in that philosophy creates a " community of responsibility". German unions are used to work cooperatively and long-term oriented with management, since in the end both sides share the goal of ensuring economic success. Yet having and taking responsibility is something fundamentally different than merely insisting on rights and interests. It forces each side to act constructively, but it also establishes long-term loyalty to the company among workers.
            Ordoliberals reject the view that a free market is the same as a deregulated market and argue on the contrary that a market to be free and to stay free ( also from corrupt corporations and cartels, irresponsible unions and power-hungry politicians) requires constant active steps and a prudent framework of rules out of reach for each of the parties concerned. They furthermore argue that economics cannot reasonably be separated from their societal dimension. Which means the role of the ordoliberal state and its independent agencies like central bank or anti-trust office is to make sure that the rules are abided that keep the common economic boat from capsizing. Rather than to intervene "Boom and bust"-style. Germanys preferred response to crises like 2008 is called " Kurzarbeit". It means that , roughly put, companies can put employees on shorter hours during downturns in demand, without sacking them, while the governement makes up the difference in pay. Once demand starts to kick in again, the governement gets out of the calculation and companies can directly bounce back. Without expensive layoff and re-hiring rounds. Like that the state finances existing jobs and preserves consumption instead of dole money or having to "create" ( rarely sustainable) jobs. To give one example.
            That is not to say that german governements have always followed ordoliberal principles. Yet its economic system and its economic policy ( visible f.e. during the Eurocrisis) have a huge ordoliberal footprint all over that is going to stay ( and that can also be found in other northern european countries as well as EU policies).
            Last edited by Voland; 10-20-2015, 05:02 AM.

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