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Greed Republicans gift to mankind

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  • #46
    Originally posted by redrover View Post

    You should be happy to learn that according to the current book that I'm pushing indicates that liberalism may not have much of a future. By liberalism he means the branch of humanism that believes in free will and the quaint notion that all men are created equal. When you think of liberals think of Tommy Jefferson John Locke and Rousseau not Bernie Sanders and certainly not Hillary. Democracy is another crazy liberal idea.Which is obviously a failure when you elect people like Trump.
    You are talking about Classical Liberalism, which is very much in the Conservative/Libertarian strain, and it has more of a future than modern liberalism/socialism

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    • #47
      Originally posted by SupPackFan View Post

      The word 'liberal' needs to be separated into two completely different columns. In one column it is a political philosophy greatly important to the development and advancement of this nation. Those are the things you describe above. Liberalism brought wonderful ideas to the constitutional table like freedom, equality, and compassion.

      In the next column you have the modern American ideology. The only freedoms a modern liberal is concerned about is sexual freedom. Liberals desire to do whatever perverted thing makes them happy without judgement. That is the important part. It is not good enough to be free - but they do not want their perversion to be judged by others. When it comes to any freedom unrelated to sex . . . today's liberals could not give a rat's ass.
      The point you make about sexual freedom is an important one. Where we tend to have broken down in society is the classical distinction between liberty and license, it is also the nexus where Libertarianism is more aligned with modern liberalism than conservativism, the notion that certain historically accepted societal prohibitions on various behaviors are not acceptable, and the imposition of this new value-set by judicial fiat. There is absolutely no doubt that certain behaviors were understood to be prohibited by the state under the Constitution (including things which society deemed to be sexually deviant) but courts have steadily imposed the views of a subset of society in these matters.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post

        Nobody can deny liberals are hard working at being greedy...they work tirelessly in the pursuit of OTHER people's money!
        If they worked as hard at regular jobs, they'd probably make more money LOL

        Instead, they want to steal from others !

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

          If they worked as hard at regular jobs, they'd probably make more money LOL

          Instead, they want to steal from others !
          Conservatives will give the needy the shirt of their back...Liberal's will give you the shirt someone else's back

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post

            Conservatives will give the needy the shirt of their back...Liberal's will give you the shirt someone else's back
            Oh really?


            Yeah, Republicans just love people so much they made it harder for people to prevent their employer from stealing from them.

            Lovely.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post

              Conservatives will give the needy the shirt of their back...Liberal's will give you the shirt someone else's back
              Would seem to be the case.
              Bleeding Heart Tightwads - The New York Times
              https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/o...21kristof.html
              Dec 20, 2008 - But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservativesare more generous than liberals even to secular ...


              Republicans Give More to Charity Than Democrats, but There's a ...
              https://nonprofitquarterly.org/.../republicans-give-more-to-charity-than-democrats-but...
              Nov 5, 2018 - But the true picture is more complex, reflecting at best a real difference ... higher charitable contributions than Democratic-dominated counties, ...


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              • #52
                Yes, Republicans are super generous to the super rich who they love to give tax breaks at the cost of services for everyone else.
                Who needs good schools, infrastructure or medical care for all when you can give the super rich enough money to live like kings.

                It'll be interesting to see just how bad the income inequality problem can get in the US before you guys wake up and see that trickle down economics really doesn't work.
                Maybe if 5 families own 99% of the wealth in America you'll see it but even then I have my doubts.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                  Yes, Republicans are super generous to the super rich who they love to give tax breaks at the cost of services for everyone else.
                  Who needs good schools, infrastructure or medical care for all when you can give the super rich enough money to live like kings.

                  It'll be interesting to see just how bad the income inequality problem can get in the US before you guys wake up and see that trickle down economics really doesn't work.
                  Maybe if 5 families own 99% of the wealth in America you'll see it but even then I have my doubts.
                  Actually conservatives believe in lower taxes overall, across the board, as well as tax code simplification. To the extent we have specific tax policy beliefs/objectives, it is more out of a sense of basic moral justice or economic efficiency and growth. I would say that opposition to the inheritance tax is a moral objection, support for lowering the Capital Gains tax (though it benefits those with investments) is because it is better for the economy overall (including being better for job creation and income increases for the population overall), not because it (necessarily) benefits the "rich" (it also benefits the middle class, mostly on the bottom line of their retirement portfolios).

                  Medicare for all is a sham, it is unaffordable and is not about wealth transfer, but service transfer. Medicare for all will not increase (and may very well decrease) the SUPPLY of medical services, while increasing the demand. That means that this plan WILL mean less medical services and longer waits (not even getting into a dramatic decrease in the pace of advancement of medical treatment, technologies, and drug development) for the majority of Americans who are currently very satisfied with the care they currently receive, PERIOD. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot or a liar.

                  We already spend FAR MORE than is needed for good schools, the problem is that we spend WAY too much on things that do not improve education outcomes. If you graph the inflation adjusted, per-pupil spending, number of teachers per student, number of school employees per student, and average standardized test scores over the last 45 years, the first three (all measures if resource INPUTS) go up dramatically, while the fourth (the most objective measure of OUTCOMES) has remained basically flat (it would actually go down if we adjust for dumbing down of many of these).

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post

                    Oh really?


                    Yeah, Republicans just love people so much they made it harder for people to prevent their employer from stealing from them.

                    Lovely.
                    It's called at-will employment, if part of your employment contract requires arbitration of various disputes, that is freedom of contract, the courts recognize that it is basic freedom of contract, and that nobody has a right to any particular job. If you don't like it, you can either decline working for that employer, or quite and find other employment...or hell, start your own business (I mean don't you lefties believe that labor is the primary, most important factor in wealth creation that is simply used and abused by those who contribute nothing but capital/money to building business...why don't all those unhappy employees simply band together and open a competing business?)

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                    • #55
                      So you're fine with an employer forcing people to do unpaid overtime and the other rather terrible examples then?
                      Some people don't have much choice in where they work due to few employers in the area and them having to stay to look after family members and you think legislation to stop employers stealing from them is a bad idea?

                      Why are you sticking up for terrible business practices?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post

                        Actually conservatives believe in lower taxes overall, across the board, as well as tax code simplification. To the extent we have specific tax policy beliefs/objectives, it is more out of a sense of basic moral justice or economic efficiency and growth. I would say that opposition to the inheritance tax is a moral objection, support for lowering the Capital Gains tax (though it benefits those with investments) is because it is better for the economy overall (including being better for job creation and income increases for the population overall), not because it (necessarily) benefits the "rich" (it also benefits the middle class, mostly on the bottom line of their retirement portfolios).

                        Medicare for all is a sham, it is unaffordable and is not about wealth transfer, but service transfer. Medicare for all will not increase (and may very well decrease) the SUPPLY of medical services, while increasing the demand. That means that this plan WILL mean less medical services and longer waits (not even getting into a dramatic decrease in the pace of advancement of medical treatment, technologies, and drug development) for the majority of Americans who are currently very satisfied with the care they currently receive, PERIOD. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot or a liar.

                        We already spend FAR MORE than is needed for good schools, the problem is that we spend WAY too much on things that do not improve education outcomes. If you graph the inflation adjusted, per-pupil spending, number of teachers per student, number of school employees per student, and average standardized test scores over the last 45 years, the first three (all measures if resource INPUTS) go up dramatically, while the fourth (the most objective measure of OUTCOMES) has remained basically flat (it would actually go down if we adjust for dumbing down of many of these).
                        Europe seems to somehow manage to afford the equivalent of medicare for all.
                        As for you saying you spend more than is needed on schools I suppose all the stories about schools not even having books is all a big fat lie then.
                        https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/16/r...onditions.html

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post

                          As for you saying you spend more than is needed on schools I suppose all the stories about schools not even having books is all a big fat lie then.
                          https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/16/r...onditions.html

                          That would seem to be the case. Our government spends over $12300 per student; more than every country except Austria, Switzerland and Norway. And while the US is 4th highest in overall spending per student, it's only 24th in reading, 25th in science, and 40th in math. If your NYT story isn't a lie (a distinct possibility considering the source), it isn't for lack of spending. Nation-wide we aren't getting what we're paying for from our teachers and administrators. Throwing more money at this problem obviously won't help.

                          http://www.imagegator.co/education-r...try-2018-oecd/

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                          • #58
                            Here's some more links to stories about underfunded US schools.

                            https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...lahoma-teacher

                            Here's a nice quote

                            PITTSBURGH—Governments in 25 states have shortchanged public K-12 education by $19 billion over the last decade, with low-tax Republican states guilty of the worst underfunding, a groundbreaking report by the American Federation of Teachers, released today, reveals.

                            https://www.aft.org/press-release/ed...decade-neglect

                            Yes, those awfully partisan teachers are just full of lies it seems.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                              Here's some more links to stories about underfunded US schools.

                              https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...lahoma-teacher

                              Here's a nice quote

                              PITTSBURGH—Governments in 25 states have shortchanged public K-12 education by $19 billion over the last decade, with low-tax Republican states guilty of the worst underfunding, a groundbreaking report by the American Federation of Teachers, released today, reveals.

                              https://www.aft.org/press-release/ed...decade-neglect

                              Yes, those awfully partisan teachers are just full of lies it seems.

                              LOL, both sources go back to the same partisan organization. You can't argue with the fact that we already spend too much on education. Of course you can find examples where shoddy teachers and poor administrators have short-changed their students, but that proves nothing.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by CYDdharta View Post


                                LOL, both sources go back to the same partisan organization. You can't argue with the fact that we already spend too much on education. Of course you can find examples where shoddy teachers and poor administrators have short-changed their students, but that proves nothing.
                                I think we should be focusing on how to get the most education out each the dollars that are spent. Here's a Hint: It isn't common core. Many other nation's school systems, and their students, out perform US schools and US students in spite of the US spending vastly more on education. There's something fundamentally wrong with the US public education system, and I suspect that Charter Schools and school choice would be a step in the right direction.

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