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Touting Trade with Africa

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  • Touting Trade with Africa

    In a speech that sounded off-note given the current headlines out of Africa Obama announced a new trade initiative with Africa to the tune of $33 billion dollars in economic funding (substantial portions coming from corporations).
    I myself find the timing amusing and wonder why government supported exploitation of Africa by corporations is a priority at this moment. Are we competing with Chinese interests or are we assisting them? Will American men and women be asked to kill and be killed in the name of corporate profits in exploitation of Africa?

    Obama Announces $33B in Commitments for Africa - ABC News

  • #2
    Re: Touting Trade with Africa

    Even though both are still way behind comparable US rates labor rates for the same work, we know that both India's and China's labor rates are on the incline. Especially in manufacturing but to a lesser degree in services (like offshore Customer Support, basic programming, data handling, etc.)

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics keeps up with this, and we know from estimates that over 2002 - 2010 (- 2009 for China) that labor rates have doubled in both nations, with China showing a slightly greater rate of increase over India. This is consistent with other economic data from both nations suggesting our use of their labor has caused significant effect.

    The problems of note with these reports is the ratio mixture of what is considered organized in those nation's terms vs. usually a larger percentage of each nation working much longer for far less. Made worse by organization in those nation's terms not being equal to US labor organization.

    That being said, it appears from most accounting that the costs of labor in key Manufacturing nations that our pathetic import and consumer debt based economic model relies on happen to be increasing. That means one of two things. Either up the cost for these goods and services, or decrease the amount of profit made. Depending on the rate, perhaps a mix of both.

    Or... a third option, open up new labor markets in nations with even less organization and more willingness to work at rates more like what China and India started out as in comparison to their US counterparts. It would do two things at the same time. Increase the pool of cheap labor we can exploit, and force downward pressures on labor costs in those other nations we do business with now. But you have to start somewhere, and it usually is an expenditure of money from government to government, a trade agreement, a debt agreement, or some other economic link to get the ball rolling. Looks like we are seeing that idea played out in "touting trade with Africa." We found our new slaves from an old friend who supplied them at our nation's founding.

    When you think about it, it is rather amazing how much slave labor our nation now relies upon for the health of our economy, today and yesterday. Everyone follow?
    Last edited by Sluggo; 08-06-2014, 07:53 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Touting Trade with Africa

      Yup, more expenditure of national resources for the profits of few.

      All the empires of the 19th and 20th century are shadows of their former selves and modern political of Africa is a waste product of those failures
      .
      Do we really need a Nigerian call center doing customer service for a credit card company?

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      • #4
        Re: Touting Trade with Africa

        I came close to starting a thread on this yesterday but never got around to it, so happy someone did. I did a bit of reading from the African point of view, and many are against it, believe it or not. They have already lost some of their own industry as a result of others relocating factories there, and paying less than what their own factories paid.

        Obama said this would help out both the Africans and the American workers here, which is rubbish. What it will do though is as Sluggo suggested and provide a new labor pool for MNCs since china and india are raising wages for workers making consumer goods for America.

        We are not helping out the African people, only exploiting them, once again. For its not that we actually want to help anyone out, although that is an excuse always given before the exploitation starts, but we want cheap labor. And Africa being so poor in many areas, most areas, is a good candidate for MNCs to exploit them now that wages are rising in other cheap labor areas. The grass of Africa gets greener as wages rise elsewhere.

        So, as time goes on, we can expect to lose some more American jobs, and while Obama says it will add jobs here, what exactly are the average Africans gonna buy from us? Oh, they might eventually buy what a MNC in china makes, and call that an American product, as the sleight of hand continues in the propaganda.

        And so the move to exploitative labor continues, as we keep flooding our consumer markets with those goods and create a few more working poor walmart jobs. What a great economic model for America. Perhaps we can use illegals given amnesty to staff them and wages won't be an issue at walmart anymore.

        This is nothing more than a rush to the bottom for common people but very profitable for a few. And no end to that trend. This is what an oligarchy looks like, I guess. And Bloomberg says it is such a great thing, helping out African the way we want to do. And we will be able to sell those poor factory workers some new cars! Wait, the african politicians will be given US dollars and perhaps they will buy American cars. We are very good at bribing other politicians, and we know how well it works here in America.

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        • #5
          Re: Touting Trade with Africa

          Here are some more talking points...

          Over the same period, China (with investment up 68 percent) and the European Union (up 8 percent) poured money into a region they see as rich with natural resources and economic potential. U.S. corporate profits in Africa fell in 2013 for a second straight year.

          "We have some catching up to do," former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Tuesday. "We are letting Europe and China go faster than us."
          US companies falling behind as Africa surges

          And then there is this..

          Some African leaders say the Chinese are more attuned than Americans to the region's norms and sensibilities. Critics counter that a more decisive factor is that Chinese companies aren't put off by bribes and kickbacks, while American firms must comply with a U.S. anti-corruption law.

          "Chinese companies are thus beating out U.S. firms, contributing to the rapid ascendancy of China on the African continent," says Andy Spalding, who studies corruption at the University of Richmond School of Law. China's growing influence, he says, is "exacerbating Africa's corruption problem
          Of course china has been criticized for only building the roads that help them get the natural resources to port. Like the rest of the corporate world, they are not actually interested in helping out Africa, unless their own self interests accidently helps.

          Of course our corporations need the taxpayers to help finance the loss of more American jobs...

          U.S. businesses also complain that they don't get much help from Washington when they need advice, contacts and financing to crack the African market
          But here is the real truth. Exploiting the poor in Africa is what the MNCs need to boost their profits, given that the other places like china that provided them with really cheap labor are beginning to want more from MNCs in wages.

          Let us call a spade a spade here. MNCs need another source of people they can exploit, and americans will not be making much of what is sold in Africa. We will do as Europe has done and put African factories out of business, by hiring the poor who will work cheaper than the current domestic workers are used to getting, which will drop prices, which will shut the doors of the existing African owned factories.

          There has been a reluctance of some of those nations in Africa to not give in to this globalization which is a repression of wages, so that the elites can get bigger pile of gold. Yet, it is just a matter of time, unless the African leaders possess moral fortitude. Yet we know how people can lose that fortitude when sums of money are given to them, in the same manner as our own politicians succumb to this factor.

          So what happens when the world has no places left that the poor can be exploited for cheaper widgets? What will the MNCs do then? Of course, until then, the profits are a soarin'. Globalization is a cancer upon the billions of average people who inhabit this earth, yet no one sees that. I guess as long as we can keep getting cheap widgets that don't last long, that is all that matters to the consumer. Like organize religion that uses fear to grow, to maintain, corporations and banks are using another aspect of human nature to become richer and richer. Consumerism in advanced western nations and cheap prices that are literally gutting out America of jobs. I guess we can all be bankers, if one wants a living wage.

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          • #6
            Re: Touting Trade with Africa

            Africa is a freaking gold mine (in some cases literally) IF you can get them to stop murdering each other over percieved differences of ethnicity, blood fueds, and sectarian differences and form a few solid nations that are corrupt to their core or even a continent wide federation.
            We could sell them all they need to industrialize etc, sell them expertise, put missile defense systems up for a little extra fuck you to iran, pakistan, china and india, mine the shit out of their resources for them etc. Of course its all dependent on the IF and well.. I'm pretty sure the israelis and palestinians will stop beating each other to death before all of africa does..

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            • #7
              Re: Touting Trade with Africa

              Originally posted by reality View Post
              Africa is a freaking gold mine (in some cases literally) IF you can get them to stop murdering each other over percieved differences of ethnicity, blood fueds, and sectarian differences and form a few solid nations that are corrupt to their core or even a continent wide federation.
              We could sell them all they need to industrialize etc, sell them expertise, put missile defense systems up for a little extra fuck you to iran, pakistan, china and india, mine the shit out of their resources for them etc. Of course its all dependent on the IF and well.. I'm pretty sure the israelis and palestinians will stop beating each other to death before all of africa does..
              Yeah, and if it wasn't for them damned Africans...perhaps these various incurable diseases that always seem to come from Africa is an attempt to rid the nation of their populations. So MNCs could have their natural resources.

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              • #8
                Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                Yeah, and if it wasn't for them damned Africans...perhaps these various incurable diseases that always seem to come from Africa is an attempt to rid the nation of their populations. So MNCs could have their natural resources.
                Jesus christ BD.

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                • #9
                  Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                  Originally posted by reality View Post
                  Jesus christ BD.
                  I'd have to agree. I also noticed that he never passes up an opportunity to slam MNCs needlessly.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                    Originally posted by reality View Post
                    Jesus christ BD.
                    That was a joke, tongue in cheek man.

                    We all know those black in Africa catch those diseases from copulation with monkeys. (another joke, just in case )

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                    • #11
                      Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                      Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                      I'd have to agree. I also noticed that he never passes up an opportunity to slam MNCs needlessly.
                      Needlessly my ass. These MNCs are enemies to the common man, whether here or in other parts of the globe. For they see themselves as exempt from social responsibility and only answer to the god of mo' profit, at any cost to others.

                      Yeah, I despise them, all of them, for they are taking away from the workers and giving to themselves. But I do not despise business, for I was in business. I just despise the fact that these jackwagons see themselves above exhibiting what we call social responsibility, which is what caused the unions to arise in the first place years ago as a reaction against them. I despise anyone who exploits other humans, while your team seems to love to see them do it.

                      Then you blame the people who get exploited for not being a corporation, or a highly educated professional. So if you don't want to be exploited, make sure you are born with the genetics that allows you to rise above it. But whatever you do, never blame the rich, the elites, the wall street bankers for what they do to others. No different than blaming the women who gets raped for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or wearing clothing that you think causes rape.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                        Needlessly my ass. These MNCs are enemies to the common man, whether here or in other parts of the globe. For they see themselves as exempt from social responsibility and only answer to the god of mo' profit, at any cost to others.

                        Yeah, I despise them, all of them, for they are taking away from the workers and giving to themselves. But I do not despise business, for I was in business. I just despise the fact that these jackwagons see themselves above exhibiting what we call social responsibility, which is what caused the unions to arise in the first place years ago as a reaction against them. I despise anyone who exploits other humans, while your team seems to love to see them do it.

                        Then you blame the people who get exploited for not being a corporation, or a highly educated professional. So if you don't want to be exploited, make sure you are born with the genetics that allows you to rise above it. But whatever you do, never blame the rich, the elites, the wall street bankers for what they do to others. No different than blaming the women who gets raped for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or wearing clothing that you think causes rape.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                          Yeah yeah, trade agreements will lead to more jobs in Africa and the U.S., thatks the ticket. Wasn't that what they said about NAFTA?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                            NAFTA, aka, the never-ending quest to sell one's product for a larger profit. That requires cheaper labor, at least until robotics become a larger part of production. Then we must begin paying people higher incomes for the work (and art) they produce. Once again, profits can generally tick upward.

                            We haven't yet seen the unintended consequences of MNC's "free trade" policies, so buck up fellow defenders of the working class. Strikes, both labor and general pop, bringing the Chinese Communist party to its' knees, for instance. Think that can't happen? How soon we forget the fall of the Soviet Union. How 'bout a collective/small capitalist movement in India, backing a nationalist political party. They in turn invite the MNC's to leave unless they sign a new contract to guarantee X amount of employment for 20 years. If they bug out, they have to set up "small shop", or several hundred small businesses to employ that same number "X", that are layed off. African labor and non-governmental organizations (NGO's) notice these tactics and decide to update their contracts with the international "free traders", copying their counterparts in India and China. Looks good to Latin America, too, and it's better than the worn out communist economies running at perpetual idle. Gotta love the internet; research on cutting edge social & economic movements, done dirt cheap, spread lightening fast.

                            The MNC's might not like these unintended consequences at first, but, enjoying a stable (if slow growing) lower middle class around the world is good for business. It probably means the end of one-quarter, "Big Profit" capitalism; replace it with very slow growth, highly stablized capitalism. Sounds good to me.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Touting Trade with Africa

                              Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                              NAFTA, aka, the never-ending quest to sell one's product for a larger profit. That requires cheaper labor, at least until robotics become a larger part of production. Then we must begin paying people higher incomes for the work (and art) they produce. Once again, profits can generally tick upward.

                              We haven't yet seen the unintended consequences of MNC's "free trade" policies, so buck up fellow defenders of the working class. Strikes, both labor and general pop, bringing the Chinese Communist party to its' knees, for instance. Think that can't happen? How soon we forget the fall of the Soviet Union. How 'bout a collective/small capitalist movement in India, backing a nationalist political party. They in turn invite the MNC's to leave unless they sign a new contract to guarantee X amount of employment for 20 years. If they bug out, they have to set up "small shop", or several hundred small businesses to employ that same number "X", that are layed off. African labor and non-governmental organizations (NGO's) notice these tactics and decide to update their contracts with the international "free traders", copying their counterparts in India and China. Looks good to Latin America, too, and it's better than the worn out communist economies running at perpetual idle. Gotta love the internet; research on cutting edge social & economic movements, done dirt cheap, spread lightening fast.

                              The MNC's might not like these unintended consequences at first, but, enjoying a stable (if slow growing) lower middle class around the world is good for business. It probably means the end of one-quarter, "Big Profit" capitalism; replace it with very slow growth, highly stablized capitalism. Sounds good to me.
                              What you laid out in India would be a hard uphill climb, taking a very long time, but a change from the current flavor of capitalism being practiced is inevitable at some point. For the consequences(I won't say unintended) will become insufferable. And that will cause a reaction, a strong one, which will eventually change the way capitalism is being used.

                              When we forget that a nation's economy also has to employ it own citizens, in order for any sort of positive social order to exist, we start do crazy things and greed takes over, blinding to long term consequences that are destructive of regular people. You start destroying regular people by the economic model created by elites in their own self interest, and that just won't stand. Hopefully it won't be like the French revolution and our elites will get to keep their heads. Why people can't see this is what baffles me.

                              A model designed to create a great disparity in income and wealth is not sustainable, especially today with the internet which can serve as the local soapbox in the park. So the conservatives better enjoy this lop sided economic model while they can, for it will eventually be destroyed.
                              Last edited by Blue Doggy; 08-07-2014, 06:51 AM.

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