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Germany to cut carbon emissions by 95 %

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  • Germany to cut carbon emissions by 95 %

    Already a response to Trump ? Probably. The social democratic / conservative ruling coalition in Germany has just passed a plan to obliges german industry to cut carbon emissions by 95 % ---till 2050. ( in 2015 the share of renewable energy in Germany was about 33 %, tendency sharply rising).. The plan will be regularly adapted and updated, for the first time in 2018, for the second in 2020, when the last nuclear plant is scheduled to go off the grid. The overall idea is to achieve leadership in global green tech ( including jobs and investment) and to achieve energy sustainability and independence for the country Both targets onn track.






    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7413911.html


    http://www.climatechangenews.com/201...-a-generation/

  • #2
    So, they are going to turn all the reactors back on?

    Cause that's how you cut emissions.
    Last edited by Commodore; 11-14-2016, 01:22 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Commodore View Post
      So, they are going to turn all the reactors back on?

      Cause that's how you cut emissions.
      Actually reading the article might help you understand what the plan is.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Voland View Post
        Actually reading the article might help you understand what the plan is.
        It would tell me how they want to do it. Which is a far cry from how it could actually be done.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Originally posted by Commodore View Post

          It would tell me how they want to do it. Which is a far cry from how it could actually be done.
          I don't think you quite understand the German culture.
          If they write an official article about how they intend to do something they will usually go and do it as that's just how they work.
          There's a reason German is a byword for efficiency and going round saying they will do stuff only to forget and do something else instead is not how they gained that moniker.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
            I don't think you quite understand the German culture.
            If they write an official article about how they intend to do something they will usually go and do it as that's just how they work.
            There's a reason German is a byword for efficiency and going round saying they will do stuff only to forget and do something else instead is not how they gained that moniker.
            It's not a matter of how well the Germans build something, it's a matter of how often Mother Nature cooperates.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Commodore View Post

              It's not a matter of how well the Germans build something, it's a matter of how often Mother Nature cooperates.
              Again I don't think you understand how Germans think.
              They don't put out reports like this on a whim without having a very good understanding of if it's possible or not and they would have done lots of studies into the possibilities of future energy generation possibilities this won't be a report slapped together by some underling in a day.
              If they think they can get to 95% you can bet your house on them getting mighty close if they go ahead with the plan.
              If there's one thing you can say about Germany it's that they are good at planning and ending up with the result they initially planned for it's pretty amazing really.

              Working out a countries future energy requirements and how that can be filled with various renewable sources is done all the time all over the world and is a well tested science now it's not that hard to imagine Germany doing it.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Commodore View Post

                It would tell me how they want to do it. Which is a far cry from how it could actually be done.

                So you don´t know what it is about, but you still know better. Wow, that is quite an achievement. The "Energiewende" has been on the way for a while already. No lights went out, no energy shortages for the industry, the country continues to be a net energy exporter and plenty of jobs and investment in research and development of green tech. As a matter of fact. That there are also problems and cost along the way to a sustainable energy supply ( non-nuclear/non fossile) is predictable and always was. But then again you are too often making the mistake to only look to the short-term and ignore that this is a project over one/two generations, backed by all political parties, by vast parts of the public and backed by industry ( in fact it has created new industries) and massive public/private investment. If Germany can pull this off, it achieves long-term energy security and independence ( or at least a high degree of that ) from global markets. Additionally technological leadership of a growing global market. Which is a price that justifies some efforts. And explains why certain vested interests would not like to let that happen....


                https://www.bmwi.de/EN/Topics/Energy...ransition.html


                http://www.ecowatch.com/this-country...891129427.html
                Last edited by Voland; 11-16-2016, 03:23 AM.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  I have no problem with Germany trying to achieve energy independence. I think we should too. And really we have if we use the natural resources we currently have. If the goal is energy independence I applaud the efforts. If the goal is reducing carbon emissions, then I believe it's silly. Maybe it is more politically correct to promote the effort as a reduction in carbon emissions than it would be to promote it for energy independence. If there is government encouragement to proceed in these efforts I think it is great. If it is being forced by government, I think it is not so great. The function of government should be to stay out of the way of progress, not to force it onto people.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    I have no problem with Germany trying to achieve energy independence. I think we should too. And really we have if we use the natural resources we currently have. If the goal is energy independence I applaud the efforts. If the goal is reducing carbon emissions, then I believe it's silly. Maybe it is more politically correct to promote the effort as a reduction in carbon emissions than it would be to promote it for energy independence. If there is government encouragement to proceed in these efforts I think it is great. If it is being forced by government, I think it is not so great. The function of government should be to stay out of the way of progress, not to force it onto people.

                    There is a political, an economical and an ecological reasoning for the energy transition. Which one trumps the other is probably a matter of taste. But since the main fossile (and mostly imported) fuels that are supposed to be increasingly phased out are also the main drivers of carbon emissions it should be clear where all those arguments meet. Additionally also reducing the impact of energy consumption on the environment is a matter of reducing long-term costs. Which is probably more obvious for a ( comparatively) small and densely populated nation like Germany ( about the size of the state of Montana, yet with 80/90 million people) than for a country with the landmass of the US. And then there is the point of the countrys industrial production. The more energy can be produced next door, the less reliant it is on unstable/unreliable foreign suppliers ( Russia ?), and the less it has to be concerned about blackmail attempts or world market prices.
                    And as far as nuclear goes : Also Uranium is a 100 % imported ressource selling at world market prices. Its risks are hard to calculate ( an accident or a terror attack ( in Belgium they found an IS operative working in a nuclear plant) would make vast parts of the country non-inhabitable) and the problem of final storage of radioactive nuclear waste, potentially for millenia, has not been solved in spite of decades of research and is probably impossible to solve in a country where you are never far from populated areas, that lacks zones like vast deserts or suitable geology. And even if it was possible, we would saddle future generations with the cost of keeping our dangerous waste safe. That is why vast parts of the population, including the industry, have turned away from it.
                    And by the way : It is not possible for the governement here to "force" something like that. They have to win allies, and build consensus. Despite problems, open questions and discussions all parties, including the opposition support the effort. And industry has long smelled that there is money to be made. From saving energy in production, making supply sustainable long-term by achieving independence from global markets and price shocks as well as from export. China regularly shops greentech for billions in Germany f.e..
                    Last edited by Voland; 11-16-2016, 06:34 AM.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Voland View Post
                      So you don´t know what it is about, but you still know better. Wow, that is quite an achievement. The "Energiewende" has been on the way for a while already. No lights went out, no energy shortages for the industry, the country continues to be a net energy exporter and plenty of jobs and investment in research and development of green tech. As a matter of fact. That there are also problems and cost along the way to a sustainable energy supply ( non-nuclear/non fossile) is predictable and always was. But then again you are too often making the mistake to only look to the short-term and ignore that this is a project over one/two generations, backed by all political parties, by vast parts of the public and backed by industry ( in fact it has created new industries) and massive public/private investment. If Germany can pull this off, it achieves long-term energy security and independence ( or at least a high degree of that ) from global markets. Additionally technological leadership of a growing global market. Which is a price that justifies some efforts. And explains why certain vested interests would not like to let that happen....

                      https://www.bmwi.de/EN/Topics/Energy...ransition.html

                      http://www.ecowatch.com/this-country...891129427.html
                      It's not so much of an achievement as an acceptance of reality. Dependence on "renewables" for the grid requires either a massive overbuild do deal with those times when nature decides not to provide, which comes with an equally massive maintenance bill, or an equally massive energy storage scheme for when nature is providing. And then what happens when nature throws a curveball?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Commodore View Post

                        It's not so much of an achievement as an acceptance of reality. Dependence on "renewables" for the grid requires either a massive overbuild do deal with those times when nature decides not to provide, which comes with an equally massive maintenance bill, or an equally massive energy storage scheme for when nature is providing. And then what happens when nature throws a curveball?




                        Well, if you had read the article(s) you would have inevitably noticed that Germany has, already prior to kicking off the energy transition, never put all its energy eggs in one basket. The countrys grid is fed by a mix of solar, wind, biomass, hydropower, natural gas AND a (decreasing) amount of fossile fuels, lignite plus nuclear. Mastering the technological challenges and problems requires time, effort and investment, without doubt. That is why it is a plan running over two generations, including regular reviews. Solar storms (your link) happen a little less frequently than that :


                        http://strom-report.de/renewable-energy/
                        Last edited by Voland; 11-17-2016, 04:37 AM.

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                        • #13
                          I'm all for a Germany that is less able to compete but very capable of caring for itself.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                            I'm all for a Germany that is less able to compete but very capable of caring for itself.
                            Germany is rather more able to compete in recent years, but of course you are welcome to demonstrate the contrary.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Voland View Post

                              Germany is rather more able to compete in recent years, but of course you are welcome to demonstrate the contrary.
                              Cutting carbon emissions by 95% will only be achieved by less energy being used by transportation and industry during the interrum, that will impact ecnoomic output and ability to compete during that period, afterward all bets are off.

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