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For those that despise the EPA...

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  • #16
    Re: For those that despise the EPA...

    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
    And because of this we created regulatory agencies, to protect the rest of us from the greed of a few. We created the first one to protect the public from the banks, thanks to FDR...
    Are you serious?

    True Federal regulation began closer to 1824 with the SCOTUS decision in Gibbons v. Ogden than with the FDR administration.

    Following that:

    1863 - Comptroller of the Currency

    1887 - Interstate Commercial Commission

    1906 - Pure Food and Drugs Act (acknowledged as the forerunner of the Food & Drug Administration)

    1913 - Federal Reserve Act of 1913

    1914 - Federal Trade Commission

    1927 - Federal Radio Commission (later renamed Federal Communications Commission)

    1930 - Federal Power Commission

    FDR wasn't the first to "protect the people from the XXX", he was just the first to go full fucking retard in terms of completly ignoring the Constitution for the sake "of the children".

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    • #17
      Re: For those that despise the EPA...

      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
      Prior to the EPA we did not environmental laws. Today we do. The problem I have with he EPA is that they keep trying to justify their existence by imposing more and more draconian laws. I was visiting with a neighbor yesterday and we talked about a local school that had been evacuated and shut down for a number of days because someone dropped a scientific instrument that held some Mercury and it spilled on the floor. When we were kids, we played with Mercury. We rolled it around on the table, rolled it around in our hands, scooped it up with our hands and put it back in the bottle. This little event of closing the school and performing an environmental clean up cost the tax payers of the district nearly $200,000. That is insanity.
      We used to play with mercury too. But you know it is a horrible poison-right? Especially on the young who have smaller bodies so a little bit goes a long way. Plus we were not subjected to such high levels of mercury in our sea food when we were kids, I don't think. Most tuna, and other large ocean fish have mercury in them in higher levels than years ago. So these kids, many of them already have mercury in em, and adding more might be too much.

      We don't want em as mad as hatters now do we? An affliction caused by exposure to mercury.

      Perhaps the mercury clean up you referenced was too much. But perhaps not. We should not have been allowed to play with mercury. Too easy for kids to swallow some.

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      • #18
        Re: For those that despise the EPA...

        Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
        The point I was making is that Mercury is not as toxic as the EPA would have you believe. To them, if something is not deadly, they are out of business so they exaggerate dangers for self interests.
        I would say they promote something 'not in balance' in search of maintaining them being essential.

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        • #19
          Re: For those that despise the EPA...

          On the subject of the EPA going beyond their legal mandate:

          A federal judge in Virginia has overturned the Environmental Protection Agency's definition of "stormwater" as a pollutant. The ruling from the Eastern District of Virginia Alexandria Division frees Virginia communities of $300 million dollars in unfunded storm water mandates.

          The ruling may now impact the EPA's mandate which would cost the City of Huntington $800 million dollars to replace the current Combined Sewer System with separate one's for sewage and stormwater.

          Judge Liam O’Grady wrote, “The EPA is authorized to set Total Maximum Daily Loads [TMDL’s ] to regulate pollutants, and pollutants are carefully defined. Stormwater runoff is not a pollutant, so the EPA is not authorized to regulate it via TMDL. Claiming that the stormwater maximum load is a surrogate for sediment, which is a pollutant and therefore regulable, does not bring stormwater within the ambit of EPA’s TMDL authority. Whatever reason EPA has for thinking that a stormwater flow rate TMDL is a better way of limiting sediment load than a sediment load TMDL, EPA cannot be allowed to exceed its clearly limited statutory authority.”

          During Monday night's Huntington City Council meeting, activist Tom McCallister asked council chairman Mark Bates about the ruling. Bates suggested that the administration would soon respond to the ruling.

          Both Huntington and the Virginia District Court are within the jurisdiction of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit.


          Virginia Federal Court Overturns EPA Stormwater Mandate | Huntington News

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          • #20
            Re: For those that despise the EPA...

            Originally posted by tsquare View Post
            On the subject of the EPA going beyond their legal mandate:

            A federal judge in Virginia has overturned the Environmental Protection Agency's definition of "stormwater" as a pollutant. The ruling from the Eastern District of Virginia Alexandria Division frees Virginia communities of $300 million dollars in unfunded storm water mandates.

            The ruling may now impact the EPA's mandate which would cost the City of Huntington $800 million dollars to replace the current Combined Sewer System with separate one's for sewage and stormwater.

            Judge Liam O’Grady wrote, “The EPA is authorized to set Total Maximum Daily Loads [TMDL’s ] to regulate pollutants, and pollutants are carefully defined. Stormwater runoff is not a pollutant, so the EPA is not authorized to regulate it via TMDL. Claiming that the stormwater maximum load is a surrogate for sediment, which is a pollutant and therefore regulable, does not bring stormwater within the ambit of EPA’s TMDL authority. Whatever reason EPA has for thinking that a stormwater flow rate TMDL is a better way of limiting sediment load than a sediment load TMDL, EPA cannot be allowed to exceed its clearly limited statutory authority.”

            During Monday night's Huntington City Council meeting, activist Tom McCallister asked council chairman Mark Bates about the ruling. Bates suggested that the administration would soon respond to the ruling.

            Both Huntington and the Virginia District Court are within the jurisdiction of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit.
            Virginia Federal Court Overturns EPA Stormwater Mandate | Huntington News
            More overreach by the Obama administration. Seems to be a recurring theme from these guys. Smells of greater and greater government intrusion, punishment, and vindictiveness.

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            • #21
              Re: For those that despise the EPA...

              Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
              More overreach by the Obama administration. Seems to be a recurring theme from these guys. Smells of greater and greater government intrusion, punishment, and vindictiveness.
              And people wonder why the economy is not rebounding under this administration. One of these foolish decisions by the EPA could put you out of business over night.

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              • #22
                Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                Ummm....Ron Paul already covered this. Companies can only pollute if the government allows them. Having strong property rights solves all this. If they are polluting your air, water, or land then you sue the shit out of them. Problem solved.

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                • #23
                  Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                  Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
                  Ummm....Ron Paul already covered this. Companies can only pollute if the government allows them. Having strong property rights solves all this. If they are polluting your air, water, or land then you sue the shit out of them. Problem solved.
                  Yeah, because we all know that getting the lawyers involved is good for everyone, especially the economy. Must be liberals telling all those lawyer jokes I've heard over the years.

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                  • #24
                    Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                    Originally posted by hermanboo View Post
                    Yeah, because we all know that getting the lawyers involved is good for everyone, especially the economy. Must be liberals telling all those lawyer jokes I've heard over the years.
                    Lawyers are already involved. It's all about property rights. I don't see what your issue is.

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                    • #25
                      Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                      Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
                      Lawyers are already involved. It's all about property rights. I don't see what your issue is.
                      How exactly are property rights going to protect the air we breath and the water we drink? And if they own the land, then they can dump whatever the heck they want to on it?

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                      • #26
                        Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                        Originally posted by hermanboo View Post
                        How exactly are property rights going to protect the air we breath and the water we drink? And if they own the land, then they can dump whatever the heck they want to on it?
                        Well, you see, pollution has this tendency to spread. So if they pollute the air you breath, the water you drink, or the land you live on then they lose everything in an uber lawsuit. It's not that complicated. It's the government that actually allowed an "acceptable" level of pollution to go on w/o there being consequences.

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                        • #27
                          Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                          Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                          Prior to the EPA we did not environmental laws. Today we do. The problem I have with he EPA is that they keep trying to justify their existence by imposing more and more draconian laws. I was visiting with a neighbor yesterday and we talked about a local school that had been evacuated and shut down for a number of days because someone dropped a scientific instrument that held some Mercury and it spilled on the floor. When we were kids, we played with Mercury. We rolled it around on the table, rolled it around in our hands, scooped it up with our hands and put it back in the bottle. This little event of closing the school and performing an environmental clean up cost the tax payers of the district nearly $200,000. That is insanity.

                          At least there was somewhat of a reason for some of those actions, kind of sort of. Environmentalists have been even more ridiculous elsewhere;

                          A chemistry project caused a big problem at Pinellas' Seminole High School Tuesday morning.

                          The Pinellas County Sheriff's Office says students were given an assignment to bring in a substance from the Periodic Table of Elements.

                          One student brought in mercury -- contained within a thermometer -- and the school went into lockdown.

                          Deputies say the thermometer was discovered as the substances were checked before going through the school.

                          No one was put in harm's way, but a hazmat crew was there as a precaution.
                          Seminole High School locked down after student brings mercury-filled thermometer to class for chemistry project | wtsp.com

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                          • #28
                            Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                            We don't need a return to concrete colored rivers with rinbow shimmers, cities coated in hundreds of feet of sick brown smog, and companies dumping barrels in piles in the woods. Its a wonder everytime I drive near NYC nowadays and can actually see the city from miles away. It wasn't so long ago that an awful lot of America was disgustingly filthy.
                            We do need the EPA, but we don't need it ever extending it's mission and reach.

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                            • #29
                              Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                              We don't need a return to concrete colored rivers with rinbow shimmers, cities coated in hundreds of feet of sick brown smog, and companies dumping barrels in piles in the woods. Its a wonder everytime I drive near NYC nowadays and can actually see the city from miles away. It wasn't so long ago that an awful lot of America was disgustingly filthy.
                              We do need the EPA, but we don't need it ever extending it's mission and reach.
                              You know the clean air comes with the overreaching. It's like anything, you can't feed the poor without someone lining up who isn't poor. An EPA that didn't have the power to overreach, wouldn't have the power to clean up the environment.

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                              • #30
                                Re: For those that despise the EPA...

                                Originally posted by goober View Post
                                You know the clean air comes with the overreaching. It's like anything, you can't feed the poor without someone lining up who isn't poor. An EPA that didn't have the power to overreach, wouldn't have the power to clean up the environment.
                                Oh so ignoring or breaking the law by the government is okay with you...

                                Hell... by that standard goober, we should put Nixon on Mt Rushmore...

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