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One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

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  • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

    Originally posted by JohnLocke View Post
    I suppose then Galileo discovered this through systematic observation, measurement, and experiment.

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    • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

      It is amazing that there are mathematical principles, things like the square-cube law, that apply in a variety of scientific fields. It makes for a powerful tool. This is one example that unites the sciences, method. To the non-scientist, scientific proclamation resemble men in religious robes during the inquisition. We dare not question their proclamations. You see this in attacking anyone who questions the proclamations, "You are not a member of the Jesuits" or "This was refuted by a well-respected member of the Church! You think you know better than the Church? I think not."

      Scientific method does not work this way. The book of knowledge is thrown open. Scientists know applying or misapplying principles when they see it and not only know conclusions derived from it are invalid but WHY they are invalid. Case in point is constant changing of the intellectual ground upon which Cleisthenes stands. Now he is focused on no global warming as the headline when the data showed a negligible amount in comparison to the alarmist predictions. He no longer hangs his hat on the validity of alarmist predictions. Instead, he desperately strives to make mountain ranges out of the mole hill of essentially stable temperatures.

      Before that, the intellectual ground he stood on was linear regression. From post 309:

      Originally posted by JohnLocke View Post
      How is this for linear regression?
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]14504[/ATTACH]

      Note the yellow comment: Not a single IPCC or other climate model predicted this trend. What does that tell you about alarmists predictive capabilities? It is amazing the arrogance from devout religious when their religious beliefs do not match with experience of reality. I am sure this has been presented and scowled at by alarmists but I thought I would post it here again just for fun.

      http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/envi...d-in-1998.html
      Global Climate Chaos: Climate cooling since 1998
      No Global Warming Since 1998 As Planet Cools Off
      Linear Regression from data gathered this century extrapolates to a negative (-) 8 degrees C. This will not due. So, one can understand why alarmists would give up the scientific, mathematical principles when they yield a politically undesirable conclusion. So, they change the intellectual ground they stand on, the method, and insult anyone who notices as not keeping up with the latest developments in the field. There is no man-made global warming and there never was.

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      • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

        Originally posted by JohnLocke View Post
        Linear Regression from data gathered this century extrapolates to a negative (-) 8 degrees C. This will not due. So, one can understand why alarmists would give up the scientific, mathematical principles when they yield a politically undesirable conclusion. So, they change the intellectual ground they stand on, the method, and insult anyone who notices as not keeping up with the latest developments in the field. There is no man-made global warming and there never was.
        You just don't get it, do you? I'm not questioning your math, I'm questioning your data set. The -8°C cooling trend you reference is only for the United States, or about 2% of Earth's surface. The subject here is GLOBAL warming, not local warming. When you look at temperatures around the globe, there is an increase of 0.06°C over the last 15 years. In other words, NO COOLING! Do you know what they call it when someone presents a small data set supporting their argument while ignoring the larger data set which contradicts it?

        It is amazing that there are mathematical principles, things like the square-cube law, that apply in a variety of scientific fields. It makes for a powerful tool.
        Just because math is a useful tool in science doesn't make it science too. Language and art are also powerful tools (scientific papers with equations and no words or charts wouldn't tell us much) but that doesn't make them science either.

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        • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

          Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
          You just don't get it, do you? I'm not questioning your math, I'm questioning your data set. The -8°C cooling trend you reference is only for the United States, or about 2% of Earth's surface. The subject here is GLOBAL warming, not local warming. When you look at temperatures around the globe, there is an increase of 0.06°C over the last 15 years. In other words, NO COOLING! Do you know what they call it when someone presents a small data set supporting their argument while ignoring the larger data set which contradicts it?


          Just because math is a useful tool in science doesn't make it science too. Language and art are also powerful tools (scientific papers with equations and no words or charts wouldn't tell us much) but that doesn't make them science either.
          Which would indicate that warming is decelerating, not accelerating as it should be with the increase in CO2.

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          • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
            Which would indicate that warming is decelerating, not accelerating as it should be with the increase in CO2.
            That would be true if CO2 were the only climate variable, but it's not. What you don't seem to get is that the other variables (solar irradiance, ENSO, etc.) are cyclical while CO2 is only increasing.

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            • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

              Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
              That would be true if CO2 were the only climate variable, but it's not. What you don't seem to get is that the other variables (solar irradiance, ENSO, etc.) are cyclical while CO2 is only increasing.
              So are ice ages.

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              • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
                When you look at temperatures around the globe, there is an increase of 0.06°C over the last 15 years. In other words, NO COOLING! .
                The last 15 years of RSS and Hadcrut 3 unadjusted global mean show cooling:




                Kramer

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                • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                  Cleisthenes only wants us to accept the one article that said 0.06 warming over the last 15 years and for all of us to reject the dozens of articles showing GLOBAL COOLING over the 15 year time period.

                  It is odd that Cleisthenes continues to deny math is a science. I wonder if he will embrace the linear regression shown in kramers graphs that show GLOBAL COOLING?

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                  • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    So are ice ages.
                    Which is where we would be headed in a few thousand years if not for CO2.

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                    • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                      Originally posted by kramer View Post
                      The last 15 years of RSS and Hadcrut 3 unadjusted global mean show cooling:

                      Kramer
                      You do know that HADCRUT3 has been replaced by HADCRUT4, don't you?

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                      • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                        Originally posted by JohnLocke View Post
                        Cleisthenes only wants us to accept the one article that said 0.06 warming over the last 15 years and for all of us to reject the dozens of articles showing GLOBAL COOLING over the 15 year time period.
                        I think you got that backwards.

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                        • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                          Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                          Which would indicate that warming is decelerating, not accelerating as it should be with the increase in CO2.
                          Great point!

                          Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
                          That would be true if CO2 were the only climate variable, but it's not. What you don't seem to get is that the other variables (solar irradiance, ENSO, etc.) are cyclical while CO2 is only increasing.
                          So, CO2 is not driving planetary temperatures, right?

                          Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
                          Which is where we would be headed in a few thousand years if not for CO2.
                          How do you know this?

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                          • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                            Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
                            You do know that HADCRUT3 has been replaced by HADCRUT4, don't you?
                            Do you know that Hadcrut4 has been "adjusted" higher than hadcrut3? I do and that is why I don't believe its accurate (i.e., I don't trust it).

                            "the corruption of science..."
                            I have seen this happen before, of course. We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.

                            - Scientist James Lovelock, 2010
                            kramer
                            Last edited by kramer; 06-28-2013, 11:48 AM.

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                            • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                              Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
                              While there is about 20 times as much water vapor in the atmosphere as CO2, each molecule of CO2 absorbs much more heat that a molecule of water vapor, enough that CO2 accounts for about a quarter of the total greenhouse effect. When you consider that without the greenhouse effect, Earth's average surface temperature would be somewhere between -9 and -34 degrees Fahrenheit, rather than the balmy 59 degrees it is today, the contribution from CO2 is more than enough to explain recent warming trends.

                              Attribution of the present‐day total greenhouse effect
                              This is so ridiculous. CO2 constitutes 9% of the overall greenhouse effect. Man contributes 7% of the CO2....the rest occurs naturally. That means.....man POSSIBLY contributes ZERO POINT SIX PERCENT of the total greenhouse gas effect.......POSSIBLY!!!! So...man-made CO2 is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY the issue for all you alarmists???!!!! Really???!!!!

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                              • Re: One... More... Time... No Global Warming!

                                Originally posted by kwilliam10 View Post
                                This is so ridiculous. CO2 constitutes 9% of the overall greenhouse effect.
                                Where did you get this from? I'm not disputing it or saying its right, just curious as to the source.

                                I read once that water vapor is over 700X as powerful a GHG than CO2. I'm 100% sure I saved the link and article on my HD some years ago but have been unable to find it. (The NSA must be "cleaning" my computer of articles with banned information...)

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