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Germany went "green"

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  • Germany went "green"

    Germany's energy revolution on verge of collapse - environment - 22 January 2014 - New Scientist


    Someone recently touted germanys green energy gains and how effective it is etc.

    How you like them apples?

  • #2
    Re: Germany went &quot;green&quot;

    Apples and oranges ?
    Germanys "Energiewende", the switch from a fossible energy based to a renewable-energy based economy is a major technological effort, planned over decades and one/two generations. And yes, it obviously also faces difficult problems and open questions. Some anticipated, some not. That was predictable. But it is by no means on the brink of collapse. and enjoys broad public support (which doesnt rule out criticism of this or that measure).
    A concerted effort between governement, companies, and consumers to transform the entire economy with a planning horizon involving the next generation is rather hard to imagine for Americans, I know.
    Like when our "outdated" manufacturing economy was allegedly on the brink of collapse since it couldnt possibly compete with the superb service and consumption based models of the US/UK
    Or when we were allegedly facing imminent doom for refusing to follow the superb "stimulus advices" from the mighty old US.
    The "Energiewende" is a complex topic that one may consider worthwhile or not. But that requires deeper information than a couple of soundbites without context and one guys opinion. At least :


    What exactly is Germany's 'Energiewende'? | Germany | DW.DE | 22.01.2013


    Bruegel | Blogs review: Germany


    Solar self-consumption on the rise in Germany: pv-magazine

    ?


    • #3
      Re: Germany went &quot;green&quot;

      Too early to blame Bush 43?

      ?


      • #4
        Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

        Originally posted by Voland View Post
        Apples and oranges ?
        Germanys "Energiewende", the switch from a fossible energy based to a renewable-energy based economy is a major technological effort, planned over decades and one/two generations. And yes, it obviously also faces difficult problems and open questions. Some anticipated, some not. That was predictable. But it is by no means on the brink of collapse. and enjoys broad public support (which doesnt rule out criticism of this or that measure).
        A concerted effort between governement, companies, and consumers to transform the entire economy with a planning horizon involving the next generation is rather hard to imagine for Americans, I know.
        Like when our "outdated" manufacturing economy was allegedly on the brink of collapse since it couldnt possibly compete with the superb service and consumption based models of the US/UK
        Or when we were allegedly facing imminent doom for refusing to follow the superb "stimulus advices" from the mighty old US.
        The "Energiewende" is a complex topic that one may consider worthwhile or not. But that requires deeper information than a couple of soundbites without context and one guys opinion. At least :


        What exactly is Germany's 'Energiewende'? | Germany | DW.DE | 22.01.2013


        Bruegel | Blogs review: Germany


        Solar self-consumption on the rise in Germany: pv-magazine
        Yeah those stimulus policies get no support from me. Its a fucking stupid idea.


        Just like trying to reduce your fossil fuel consumption is a stupid fucking idea if you're going to instead do this
        Germany to Add Most Coal-Fired Plants in Two Decades, IWR Says - Bloomberg
        Fear after Fukushima to push up carbon emissions - environment - 08 March 2012 - New Scientist


        If yall really want to lower emissions just change the nuke plants to pebble beds. Safe, cheap, effective, no emissions, no turbines eating birds, no solar panels leaking heavy metals and poisoning the landscape, no need to dam up rivers and change the ecosystem. Just cheap, safe, effiicient nuclear power.

        (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ

        Originally posted by Voland View Post
        Apples and oranges ?
        Germanys "Energiewende", the switch from a fossible energy based to a renewable-energy based economy is a major technological effort, planned over decades and one/two generations. And yes, it obviously also faces difficult problems and open questions. Some anticipated, some not. That was predictable. But it is by no means on the brink of collapse. and enjoys broad public support (which doesnt rule out criticism of this or that measure).
        A concerted effort between governement, companies, and consumers to transform the entire economy with a planning horizon involving the next generation is rather hard to imagine for Americans, I know.
        Like when our "outdated" manufacturing economy was allegedly on the brink of collapse since it couldnt possibly compete with the superb service and consumption based models of the US/UK
        Or when we were allegedly facing imminent doom for refusing to follow the superb "stimulus advices" from the mighty old US.
        The "Energiewende" is a complex topic that one may consider worthwhile or not. But that requires deeper information than a couple of soundbites without context and one guys opinion. At least :


        What exactly is Germany's 'Energiewende'? | Germany | DW.DE | 22.01.2013


        Bruegel | Blogs review: Germany


        Solar self-consumption on the rise in Germany: pv-magazine
        Yeah those stimulus policies get no support from me. Its a fucking stupid idea.


        Just like trying to reduce your fossil fuel consumption is a stupid fucking idea if you're going to instead do this
        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-27/germany-to-add-most-coal-fired-plants-in-two-decades-iwr-says.html
        http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328553.300-fear-after-fukushima-to-push-up-carbon-emissions.html


        If yall really want to lower emissions just change the nuke plants to pebble beds. Safe, cheap, effective, no emissions, no turbines eating birds, no solar panels leaking heavy metals and poisoning the landscape, no need to dam up rivers and change the ecosystem. Just cheap, safe, effiicient nuclear power.

        (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ

        Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
        Too early to blame Bush 43?
        not if you play the race card

        ?


        • #5
          Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

          Originally posted by reality View Post


          Just like trying to reduce your fossil fuel consumption is a stupid fucking idea if you're going to instead do this
          Germany to Add Most Coal-Fired Plants in Two Decades, IWR Says - Bloomberg
          Fear after Fukushima to push up carbon emissions - environment - 08 March 2012 - New Scientist


          If yall really want to lower emissions just change the nuke plants to pebble beds. Safe, cheap, effective, no emissions, no turbines eating birds, no solar panels leaking heavy metals and poisoning the landscape, no need to dam up rivers and change the ecosystem. Just cheap, safe, effiicient nuclear power.

          (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ



          Yeah those stimulus policies get no support from me. Its a fucking stupid idea.


          Just like trying to reduce your fossil fuel consumption is a stupid fucking idea if you're going to instead do this
          Germany to Add Most Coal-Fired Plants in Two Decades, IWR Says - Bloomberg
          Fear after Fukushima to push up carbon emissions - environment - 08 March 2012 - New Scientist


          If yall really want to lower emissions just change the nuke plants to pebble beds. Safe, cheap, effective, no emissions, no turbines eating birds, no solar panels leaking heavy metals and poisoning the landscape, no need to dam up rivers and change the ecosystem. Just cheap, safe, effiicient nuclear power.

          (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ



          not if you play the race card
          Let me help you, dear

          Construction on these coalplants in question started in 2006, and they largely replaced older ones, that had become inefficient. The "Energiewende" was unveiled in 2011. Therefore one should be sure to know the whole story, before making smartass remarks, dont you think ? To claim the coalplants were evidence of the energy transitions alleged failure would be intellectually on one level with blaming Obamas faults on Bush.
          It is true that they also have a role to play in the energy transition, yet other things are missing in your links as well. Like that Germanys new coalplants are among the most efficient and "cleanest" of its kind in the world. That are using a new kind of technology :

          New Coal Fired Plants Could Be Key to German Energy Revolution - SPIEGEL ONLINE


          Conventional power plants grind coal into dust, which is then blown into a boiler. But in Niederaussem, the pulverized coal is first stored in a silo, making it possible to control much more closely the amount that is later fed to the flame. German energy giant RWE originally built the silo in Niederaussem to make fueling its power plant easier. But the German energy revolution has lent the silo system an entirely new dimension.
          A power plant with a silo can run on a low level if necessary. It can be powered down to 10 percent of its maximum output, a function that's impossible for plants without a silo. Even the most modern conventional facilities can go no lower than 35 percent of maximum performance. Operating at a capacity any less than that requires laboriously keeping the combustion going by burning oil or gas -- an option that's far too expensive.

          Silos for storing coal dust represent just one of several new technologies that are helping coal-fired power plants shape up for the transition to renewable energy. Time is short. Germany's environmental revolution will mean major upheavals for coal plant operators, and the new electricity supply system will subject them to grim competition.
          ......Grid operators are required by law to give priority to buying electricity from renewable sources, with the remaining demand met by coal and gas plants, as well as a decreasing number of nuclear power plants, which are due to be phased out by 2022.

          This new system leads to ever greater fluctuations in power generation, with output changing with every gust of wind and every cloud that flits across the sun. Hitachi Power, a Japanese company that builds power plants, estimates these fluctuations will double or triple by the end of the decade, while at the same time the demand for electricity from non-renewable sources will drop by half between 2010 and 2020.

          Soon the demand for electricity will likely no longer be enough to keep all the existing coal-fired plants in business, and those that want to continue selling as much conventionally generated energy as possible in this shrinking market must be able to react quickly to fluctuations in supply and consumption. Once this was something only gas-fired plants were able to do, but coal-fired plants are now preparing to challenge them for the role of a flexible provider that can make up shortfalls. Coal and gas power, once partners, are suddenly becoming competitors in a shrinking market......Other techniques are currently being tested as well, for example special boilers that can burn not only coal but biomass as well, improving CO2 emissions rates. The cost of comprehensively converting a coal-fired plant in this way is in the high double-digit millions, according to industry experts, but it's an investment that can pay off for plant operators within just a few years.



          And since these plants can be fired pretty much according to demand ( and dont have to run at 100 % constantly), the overall use of coal hasnt risen as well. Germany hasnt phased out any nuclear plants in both 2012 and 2013 ( and will not before 2020), and looks set to remain a huge net energy exporter, to counter another popular myth. No blackouts are looming :


          Viewpoint: Why the rise in lignite use in Germany does not prove the Energiewende is failing | Greenpeace UK



          What the Germans intend to arrive at is a MIXED model of energy supply, where traditional sources of energy (like coal) can help to balance out possible shortfalls in renewables, in case someone has missed that. :

          Is Germany switching to coal? - 100% renewable - Renewables International

          Germany has a target of 35 percent renewable power by 2020, rising to 85 percent by 2050 – meaning that 65 percent of its power supply will be conventional in 2020, and the country will still have 15 percent conventional power by mid-century. Obviously, Germany needs to build some new conventional power plants to reach even that ambitious goal for renewables.

          Yes, planning horizon, underpinned by heavy investment in research and development ( around 20 times that of the US related to GDP), is 2050.

          There is a plan, and they will push forward (Germans have a certain love for these concerted efforts). And wether the energy transition works out or not will have to be measured in decades, not years. It is called making the country largely independent from fossiles as well as energy imports. Without producing tons of nuclear trash that a comparatively small and heavily populated country has trouble to store safely or exposing yourself to buttf.... by foreign despots because they sit on your energy. For an economy almost without energy ressources of its own a question that concerns its long-term perspectives.
          What Americans are most certainly not a in position to, regardless whether they eye the "Energiewende" effort with sympathy or not, is offering unwanted and unjustified lectures on efficient use of energy or energy sustainability to Germans. Since that is where the US most certainly does NOT lead by example. Or at all.
          Last edited by Voland; 01-24-2014, 07:41 AM.

          ?


          • #6
            Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

            Originally posted by Voland View Post
            Let me help you, dear

            Construction on these coalplants in question started in 2006, and they largely replaced older ones, that had become inefficient. The "Energiewende" was unveiled in 2011. Therefore one should be sure to know the whole story, before making smartass remarks, dont you think ? To claim the coalplants were evidence of the energy transitions alleged failure would be intellectually on one level with blaming Obamas faults on Bush.
            It is true that they also have a role to play in the energy transition, yet other things are missing in your links as well. Like that Germanys new coalplants are among the most efficient and "cleanest" of its kind in the world. That are using a new kind of technology :

            New Coal Fired Plants Could Be Key to German Energy Revolution - SPIEGEL ONLINE


            Conventional power plants grind coal into dust, which is then blown into a boiler. But in Niederaussem, the pulverized coal is first stored in a silo, making it possible to control much more closely the amount that is later fed to the flame. German energy giant RWE originally built the silo in Niederaussem to make fueling its power plant easier. But the German energy revolution has lent the silo system an entirely new dimension.
            A power plant with a silo can run on a low level if necessary. It can be powered down to 10 percent of its maximum output, a function that's impossible for plants without a silo. Even the most modern conventional facilities can go no lower than 35 percent of maximum performance. Operating at a capacity any less than that requires laboriously keeping the combustion going by burning oil or gas -- an option that's far too expensive.

            Silos for storing coal dust represent just one of several new technologies that are helping coal-fired power plants shape up for the transition to renewable energy. Time is short. Germany's environmental revolution will mean major upheavals for coal plant operators, and the new electricity supply system will subject them to grim competition.
            ......Grid operators are required by law to give priority to buying electricity from renewable sources, with the remaining demand met by coal and gas plants, as well as a decreasing number of nuclear power plants, which are due to be phased out by 2022.

            This new system leads to ever greater fluctuations in power generation, with output changing with every gust of wind and every cloud that flits across the sun. Hitachi Power, a Japanese company that builds power plants, estimates these fluctuations will double or triple by the end of the decade, while at the same time the demand for electricity from non-renewable sources will drop by half between 2010 and 2020.

            Soon the demand for electricity will likely no longer be enough to keep all the existing coal-fired plants in business, and those that want to continue selling as much conventionally generated energy as possible in this shrinking market must be able to react quickly to fluctuations in supply and consumption. Once this was something only gas-fired plants were able to do, but coal-fired plants are now preparing to challenge them for the role of a flexible provider that can make up shortfalls. Coal and gas power, once partners, are suddenly becoming competitors in a shrinking market......Other techniques are currently being tested as well, for example special boilers that can burn not only coal but biomass as well, improving CO2 emissions rates. The cost of comprehensively converting a coal-fired plant in this way is in the high double-digit millions, according to industry experts, but it's an investment that can pay off for plant operators within just a few years.



            And since these plants can be fired pretty much according to demand ( and dont have to run at 100 % constantly), the overall use of coal hasnt risen as well. Germany hasnt phased out any nuclear plants in both 2012 and 2013 ( and will not before 2020), and looks set to remain a huge net energy exporter, to counter another popular myth. No blackouts are looming :


            Viewpoint: Why the rise in lignite use in Germany does not prove the Energiewende is failing | Greenpeace UK



            What the Germans intend to arrive at is a MIXED model of energy supply, where traditional sources of energy (like coal) can help to balance out possible shortfalls in renewables, in case someone has missed that. :

            Is Germany switching to coal? - 100% renewable - Renewables International

            Germany has a target of 35 percent renewable power by 2020, rising to 85 percent by 2050 – meaning that 65 percent of its power supply will be conventional in 2020, and the country will still have 15 percent conventional power by mid-century. Obviously, Germany needs to build some new conventional power plants to reach even that ambitious goal for renewables.

            Yes, planning horizon, underpinned by heavy investment in research and development ( around 20 times that of the US related to GDP), is 2050.

            There is a plan, and they will push forward (Germans have a certain love for these concerted efforts). And wether the energy transition works out or not will have to be measured in decades, not years. It is called making the country largely independent from fossiles as well as energy imports. Without producing tons of nuclear trash that a comparatively small and heavily populated country has trouble to store safely or exposing yourself to buttf.... by foreign despots because they sit on your energy. For an economy almost without energy ressources of its own a question that concerns its long-term perspectives.
            What Americans are most certainly not a in position to, regardless whether they eye the "Energiewende" effort with sympathy or not, is offering unwanted and unjustified lectures on efficient use of energy or energy sustainability to Germans. Since that is where the US most certainly does NOT lead by example. Or at all.
            Storing coal dust in a silo seems quite dangerous to me. FAE and all that. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
            It seems like you'd want RENEWABLE sources for your RENEWABLE program, and I'm hearing PROMISES of such but then you're talking about a system that doesn't have a problem with gusts of wind and clouds because you've still got a shit ton of coal (better coal plants I grant you, with the exception of silos filled with coal dust, which goes boom) plants.
            As to nuclear power: PEBBLE BED cooled with helium or a thorium reactor pretty much solves your problem.
            Pebble-bed reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
            I linked directly to the crticisms so you don't think I'm selling you magic beans or something. The west germans had a problem with a bad design.
            Funny story true story: You guys produce the best pebbles, and you had a good one running for 21 years with 1 problem that is avoided in new reactors but you decommed after CHERNOBYL (which was a fuel rod like fukushima, rather than a pebble bed). You guys had it down you just let the fear get to you, like we did. Like everyone did. To our detriment.
            China has a functional reactor, and has taken the steam that can be generated (and can be seen as a liability if the helium is not cycled well enough to keep out air) and turned it into a hydrogen cracking plant on the side. So they're getting double the bang (pun intended) for their buck AND cutting emissions coming and going.
            You don't NEED the coal plants. NO one does. We can solve the power problems with nuclear power that is SAFE. Certainly it is at least as safe as having a silo filled with a FAE bomb waiting to happen.

            The US this and that comments: I'm not saying we're better than you dude. We've got a flat out retarded policy on so many things I cannot count them all. I'm just saying I don't think a whole lot of this proposed policy, just as I don't think a whole lot of my own nation's policy.

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            • #7
              Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

              Originally posted by Voland View Post
              (Germans have a certain love for these concerted efforts).
              They also have a love for land outside their borders...

              ?


              • #8
                Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

                Originally posted by Voland View Post
                Let me help you, dear

                Construction on these coalplants in question started in 2006, and they largely replaced older ones, that had become inefficient. The "Energiewende" was unveiled in 2011. Therefore one should be sure to know the whole story, before making smartass remarks, dont you think ? To claim the coalplants were evidence of the energy transitions alleged failure would be intellectually on one level with blaming Obamas faults on Bush.
                It is true that they also have a role to play in the energy transition, yet other things are missing in your links as well. Like that Germanys new coalplants are among the most efficient and "cleanest" of its kind in the world. That are using a new kind of technology :

                New Coal Fired Plants Could Be Key to German Energy Revolution - SPIEGEL ONLINE


                Conventional power plants grind coal into dust, which is then blown into a boiler. But in Niederaussem, the pulverized coal is first stored in a silo, making it possible to control much more closely the amount that is later fed to the flame. German energy giant RWE originally built the silo in Niederaussem to make fueling its power plant easier. But the German energy revolution has lent the silo system an entirely new dimension.
                A power plant with a silo can run on a low level if necessary. It can be powered down to 10 percent of its maximum output, a function that's impossible for plants without a silo. Even the most modern conventional facilities can go no lower than 35 percent of maximum performance. Operating at a capacity any less than that requires laboriously keeping the combustion going by burning oil or gas -- an option that's far too expensive.

                Silos for storing coal dust represent just one of several new technologies that are helping coal-fired power plants shape up for the transition to renewable energy. Time is short. Germany's environmental revolution will mean major upheavals for coal plant operators, and the new electricity supply system will subject them to grim competition.
                ......Grid operators are required by law to give priority to buying electricity from renewable sources, with the remaining demand met by coal and gas plants, as well as a decreasing number of nuclear power plants, which are due to be phased out by 2022.

                This new system leads to ever greater fluctuations in power generation, with output changing with every gust of wind and every cloud that flits across the sun. Hitachi Power, a Japanese company that builds power plants, estimates these fluctuations will double or triple by the end of the decade, while at the same time the demand for electricity from non-renewable sources will drop by half between 2010 and 2020.

                Soon the demand for electricity will likely no longer be enough to keep all the existing coal-fired plants in business, and those that want to continue selling as much conventionally generated energy as possible in this shrinking market must be able to react quickly to fluctuations in supply and consumption. Once this was something only gas-fired plants were able to do, but coal-fired plants are now preparing to challenge them for the role of a flexible provider that can make up shortfalls. Coal and gas power, once partners, are suddenly becoming competitors in a shrinking market......Other techniques are currently being tested as well, for example special boilers that can burn not only coal but biomass as well, improving CO2 emissions rates. The cost of comprehensively converting a coal-fired plant in this way is in the high double-digit millions, according to industry experts, but it's an investment that can pay off for plant operators within just a few years.



                And since these plants can be fired pretty much according to demand ( and dont have to run at 100 % constantly), the overall use of coal hasnt risen as well. Germany hasnt phased out any nuclear plants in both 2012 and 2013 ( and will not before 2020), and looks set to remain a huge net energy exporter, to counter another popular myth. No blackouts are looming :


                Viewpoint: Why the rise in lignite use in Germany does not prove the Energiewende is failing | Greenpeace UK



                What the Germans intend to arrive at is a MIXED model of energy supply, where traditional sources of energy (like coal) can help to balance out possible shortfalls in renewables, in case someone has missed that. :

                Is Germany switching to coal? - 100% renewable - Renewables International

                Germany has a target of 35 percent renewable power by 2020, rising to 85 percent by 2050 – meaning that 65 percent of its power supply will be conventional in 2020, and the country will still have 15 percent conventional power by mid-century. Obviously, Germany needs to build some new conventional power plants to reach even that ambitious goal for renewables.

                Yes, planning horizon, underpinned by heavy investment in research and development ( around 20 times that of the US related to GDP), is 2050.

                There is a plan, and they will push forward (Germans have a certain love for these concerted efforts). And wether the energy transition works out or not will have to be measured in decades, not years. It is called making the country largely independent from fossiles as well as energy imports. Without producing tons of nuclear trash that a comparatively small and heavily populated country has trouble to store safely or exposing yourself to buttf.... by foreign despots because they sit on your energy. For an economy almost without energy ressources of its own a question that concerns its long-term perspectives.
                What Americans are most certainly not a in position to, regardless whether they eye the "Energiewende" effort with sympathy or not, is offering unwanted and unjustified lectures on efficient use of energy or energy sustainability to Germans. Since that is where the US most certainly does NOT lead by example. Or at all.
                One has to admire the concerted efforts of gov't, business and the populace. This is how the US will eventually have to operate, to the chagrin of our two tribes here who would rather fight than cooperate. Cooperation is a foreign idea in America these days. We must not see a need for it, but of course will be forced into it, eventually, kicking and screaming all the way. Some in America see their individualism as being attacked by just the mention of such a socialistic term, as cooperation.

                We had a cooperative mindset coming out of ww2, out of utter necessity. This carried on in the time after ww2 for awhile, to be replaced later on with the peculiar sickness that comes from perverting individualism into anti cooperation. Every man for himself, without women and children going first.

                ?


                • #9
                  Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

                  Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                  They also have a love for land outside their borders...
                  Wow... just, wow.

                  ?


                  • #10
                    Re: Germany went &quot;green&quot;

                    Something more on Germanys "energy gamble" :


                    Renewable power: Germany

                    The Energiewende — the world's most extensive embrace of wind and solar power as well as other forms of renewable energy — enjoys the support of all Germany's political parties and most of the population. It will probably continue whatever the results of the national election in September. Other nations are watching keenly to see how the experiment proceeds, and whether they should follow the German lead. “Germany's Energiewende can mobilize a global energy revolution,” says Harry Lehmann, executive chairman of the World Council for Renewable Energies, who is based in Dessau, Germany.

                    To reach its goal, Germany is currently investing more than €1.5 billion per year in energy research. One of its chief aims is to improve and build more storage systems, such as the Stuttgart P2G plant. Another is extending and strengthening the electricity grid to wire up remote wind turbines and countless small photovoltaic installations. The research programme also seeks to improve the efficiency of energy production from sunlight, wind and biomass,................The coal resurgence makes it unlikely that Germany will meet its 2020 emissions targets, says Pielke Jr. “You must accept the logic,” he says. “If you opt out of nuclear power, your near-term emissions will go up.”

                    But German officials say that even if emissions rise temporarily, that trend will turn around. State-of-the-art coal-powered plants, such as a new 2.2-GW facility near Cologne that burns lignite, or low-grade coal, will replace several older, less efficient plants. The net effect will be to reduce CO2 emissions, says Altmaier.

                    To sustain that trend, however, the costs of green energy need to come down. “Subsidies have helped to get the renewable thing started, but sooner or later renewable energy must become economically self-sustaining,” says Brigitte Knopf, head of German and European energy strategies at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research.

                    That is where Germany is aiming many of its energy-research efforts, which will receive in excess of €3.5 billion from the government between 2011 and 2014. About €200 million is going towards developing and improving storage technologies.

                    “Renewable energy is a wonderful thing — provided you are able to store it at a large scale and distribute it efficiently,” says Frithjof Stai, managing director of the Center for Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research (ZSW) in Stuttgart, which operates the P2G plant. By making renewable energy more manageable and marketable, advanced storage technologies can ultimately help to reduce the cost of wind and solar power, he says.............For the Energiewende to succeed, the grid must be able to accommodate millions of extra small solar installations and wind turbines, as well as autonomous sub-grids such as those that connect offshore wind farms, which intermittently send floods of power into the onshore grid.

                    In January, the government put out a €150-million call for research proposals for improving the electricity network. The government also announced last year that it would install almost 4,000 kilometres of high- and low-voltage power lines, with a total transmission capacity of 10 GW. The €20-billion project would help to carry energy to the south of Germany from wind farms in the north.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

                      Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                      Wow... just, wow.
                      right? Pot call the kettle black much?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

                        Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                        They also have a love for land outside their borders...

                        Congrats for an incredibly astute comment

                        ?


                        • #13
                          Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

                          Originally posted by Voland View Post
                          Congrats for an incredibly astute comment
                          And if you answer in the positive on more time, someone in France will want to surrender to you!

                          ?


                          • #14
                            Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

                            Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                            And if you answer in the positive on more time, someone in France will want to surrender to you!

                            Sure dear, and now back to your toys

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                            • #15
                              Re: Germany went &amp;amp;quot;green&amp;amp;quot;

                              Originally posted by Voland View Post
                              Sure dear, and now back to your toys
                              now you've done it!

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