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Moderate Muslims

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  • #91
    You just aren't hearing about it every day because fear sells, not hope.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56...b009377b249dea
    http://m.themalaymailonline.com/mala...inst-terrorism

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    • #92
      Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
      I bet they were as happy for you to sit down and talk with them about just how little they know about their own religion as you would be if someone did the same about Christianity to you.
      I don't think you realise just how condescending you sound but here's a hint, very condescending.
      The idea is not to tell them when they are mistaken, just figure out what they believe, and build from there.

      I've had plenty of people erroneously tell me what I believe.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Commodore View Post

        The idea is not to tell them when they are mistaken, just figure out what they believe, and build from there.

        I've had plenty of people erroneously tell me what I believe.
        Ok, I see it's pointless discussing this with you so never mind.
        Last edited by PeterUK75; 07-18-2016, 08:42 AM.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

          Another reason we don't hear about them is that there aren't very many of them and they won't speak out against the radicals for the same reason the MSM doesn't. They are afraid of them. Look what happens when you speak out against them. The MSM loves to bash Christianity because they know Christians won't come in and behead them.
          The great difference, and the problem, lest we forget facts, is that neither Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, nor Hinduism have theocracies in the modern world. What religion, still does? There are 11 nations in the world that a gay person would be killed. If Christianity was doing this, the left and MSM would rant about it 24/7. Islam is given a pass by the left. But they will not give any other religion a pass. If one raises hell about these theocracies, you have suffering from islamaphobia. If one cannot see the absolute absurdity in this.....

          When any nation is governed over by any religious law, you are looking at an anachronism that has no place in a modern, more enlightened world. It should not be accepted, especially by people who call themselves liberal. And people that come from such cultures, should only go into another non Islamic culture IF they are trying to escape the barbarity, and 8th century mentality. And want to join into modern western, secular civilization. Where the law of the BOOK is not wanted to dictate everyday life. And yet, Europe and us, are accepting these people in. This is so absurd, so disconnected from reality, as to be dangerous. That is why the world needs a means test, before they allow these people into modern western culture. Put em on a lie detector machine, the same way we would do to communists during the cold war, who wanted to come into the west by the millions. We would not allow something like communism to immigrate by the millions when we were fighting communism. This is no different.

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          • #95
            Now, this is progress:
            Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror

            In a radical turn of events, Muslim writers from across the Arab world are admitting that Islam itself is a problem, and the only way to curb the terror carried out in its name is to conduct a fundamental overhaul of Islamic texts and their interpretations.

            http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2...global-terror/

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            • #96
              Originally posted by fishjoel View Post

              Did Christianity happen to flourish in an area where liberty would eventually flourish, regardless of it being there, or did Christianity create fertile ground for liberty to flourish? If you look at all the nations of the world the countries that were traditionally majority Christian people have the most liberty. This includes all the Asian countries as well.
              Christianity happened to get its start in a place suitable for developing a society and was not the cause.

              I believe that if some other religion had gotten its start in the same place that we would have a society very similar to what we have ot in a lot of ways. Remember the underpinnings of western society are rooted in the Greek and Roman civilizations, neither of which were Christian.

              Everyone should read Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond. It outlines the rise of Western Civilization and makes a very good argument along these lines. The majority of the animals that became domesticated and a lot of the plants that became domesticated were present in the temp[erate land mass of Eur-Asia. This lead to the development of civilization there. There are no other temperate land masses anywhere near the size of this one that allowed the diversity to flourish and a natural selection within this diversity to produce the advanced technology that became wWestern Civilization.


              Guns, Germs, and Steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


              The book attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations (including North Africa) have survived and conquered others, while arguing against the idea that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate primarily in environmental differences, which are amplified by various positive feedback loops. When cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example, written language or the development among Eurasians of resistance to endemic diseases), he asserts that these advantages occurred because of the influence of geography on societies and cultures (for example, by facilitating commerce and trade between different cultures) and were not inherent in the Eurasian genomes.
              Last edited by RDK; 09-29-2016, 10:22 AM.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by RDK View Post

                Christianity happened to get its start in a place suitable for developing a society and was not the cause.

                I believe that if some other religion had gotten its start in the same place that we would have a society very similar to what we have ot in a lot of ways. Remember the underpinnings of western society are rooted in the Greek and Roman civilizations, neither of which were Christian.

                Everyone should read Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond. It outlines the rise of Western Civilization and makes a very good argument along these lines. The majority of the animals that became domesticated and a lot of the plants that became domesticated were present in the temp[erate land mass of Eur-Asia. This lead to the development of civilization there. There are no other temperate land masses anywhere near the size of this one that allowed the diversity to flourish and a natural selection within this diversity to produce the advanced technology that became wWestern Civilization.


                Guns, Germs, and Steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


                The book attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations (including North Africa) have survived and conquered others, while arguing against the idea that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate primarily in environmental differences, which are amplified by various positive feedback loops. When cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example, written language or the development among Eurasians of resistance to endemic diseases), he asserts that these advantages occurred because of the influence of geography on societies and cultures (for example, by facilitating commerce and trade between different cultures) and were not inherent in the Eurasian genomes.
                Yeah, we could have women walking around in Burkas and men shooting each other instead of women in bikinis and men playing football. This country was no more a fertile ground for civilized development than many other countries. The moral values of the founders had a great deal to do with it.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

                  Yeah, we could have women walking around in Burkas and men shooting each other instead of women in bikinis and men playing football. This country was no more a fertile ground for civilized development than many other countries. The moral values of the founders had a great deal to do with it.
                  The moral values of those slave owners? How many of your founding fathers raped slave women? Really OMD do you want to emulate them?

                  I will grant that they had some great ideas about democracy but it was a limited democracy. Limited to white guys.

                  Oh sorry, you support Dishonest Donald so you do want to return to those days.



                  The technology that allowed people from Europe to come to the Americans was developed because of the reasons stated in Guns, Germs and Steel. The Americas were not a fertile ground for developing a civilization with advanced technology. They were a fertile land for allowing the continued development of thses technologies once imported there initially. There were no native animals or plants suitable for domestication. These were all imported.

                  The Americas run generally north south. The temperate zones are separated by the tropics and that did not allow cross fertilization of ideas and technologies between the two temperate zones. The large land mass of Eurasia is mostly a temperate zone and the sheer size and diversity of it allowed the technology top develop.

                  You should read Guns Germs and Steel. That is assuming that you can read a book that is not all pictures and has some polysyllabic words in it and abstract concepts. lol

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                  • #99
                    I think Guns Germs and Steel was a good book but it missed something in it's analysis: often the side that spent more time with ritual and actually paying attention to it's spiritualism and religion lost time and time again.

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                    • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                      I think Guns Germs and Steel was a good book but it missed something in it's analysis: often the side that spent more time with ritual and actually paying attention to it's spiritualism and religion lost time and time again.
                      My take away on religion from that was that if the rules of a religion happened to enhance the survival of a people then that particular religion and people prospered. For example the Muslim practice of washing before eating aided the survival of Muslims because sanitation, not because Allah interviened and answered their prayewrs.

                      Religions that took a large toll on the society in the form of days of prayer or ritual that was non productive did not so well.

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