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Transgender ... or horny high school kid?

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  • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
    So, show us some scientific evidence that there is such a thing as transgender syndrome or disorder or anything scientific that shows it is anything but a mental condition that can be treated

    multiple links on Gender Dysphoria:
    http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/gender-dysphoria
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/cond...nder-dysphoria
    http://psychcentral.com/disorders/ge...oria-symptoms/
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...sgender-brain/
    http://www.glaad.org/blog/apa-remove...l-health-guide
    http://www.news-medical.net/health/C...Dysphoria.aspx

    One way the condition can be treated, with gender reassignment...

    As for "anything but a mental condition that can be treated" ... do you think mental conditions aren't real and serious issues?

    ?


    • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

      Show us the scripture texts that say these things.
      Here's an idea, actually read the Bible if you are going to use or support an argument supposedly derived from the bible. The passages in the Bible aren't new, they haven't gone away.

      Here's a few.

      Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
      Deuteronomy 17:1-5 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshiped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
      Deuteronomy 14:6-10, If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God.

      (The New Testament confirms you will shall be damned for failing to believe, it does void the punishments set forth)

      Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.
      Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.

      ( not so bad being cursed is sort of vague but probably not something the neighbors care for much.)

      Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain
      Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death

      Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
      Exodus 31:15 Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death
      Numbers 15:32. And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath dayAnd all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
      (notice it the Lord God making the Decision here not Moses)


      Exodus 20:12 Honor thy father and thy mother.
      Exodus 21:17 And he that curses his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death


      Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
      Leviticus 20:10 And the man that commits adultery with another mans wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death


      Notice the trend here? And if as some argue these were for another place and time and no longer binding, no arguments based on any of those books should be considered valid as they were for another place and time.

      ?


      • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
        What I want is irrelevant. If you work on the Sabbath, you are supposed to be killed by your neighbors according to the Bible. A child should be executed for failing to honor a parent. Eatign certain food will despoil our bodies, and a despoiled body is a despoiled soul. It's not rocket science, it's the unerring and infallible literal truth spoken by God.
        The hypocrisy comes from people both claiming verses they can live with are the word of God and those they don't like are somehow not the word of God.
        That's perhaps the grossest misunderstanding of both the purpose and application of Mosaic Law in history. And I thought the Sadducees and Pharisees had that down to a science.

        First of all, the death penalty was only a certain in cases of murder. And for that two witnesses where required. This is because Mosaic law is based on the principals of restorative justice. In other words, if you damage someone in any way, you where to repair the damage done, along with a punitive fine to the community to make you think twice about doing it again. A solution would ideally be negotiated between a repentant transgressor who wanted to make amends. But sometimes it would have to be forced by the priests, and there was an elaborate appeals process for that. Violating the social or religious statutes, which where in place to preserve a homogeneous religious community, and prepare it to recognize their Messiah when He came, where more often than not enforced with exile. In other words, if you didn't want to follow social norms, you where ask to leave. Only if you refused, or came back unrepentant, would the stoning ensue. Death was the the worst possible penalty, not the first, and certainly not the common on.

        The whole point of the law was to teach people that they couldn't comply perfectly, hence the need for a Savior. If everyone was killed for the simplest transgression, as you would imply, you would quickly run out of judges, juries, and executioners. The Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees missed this point in Christ's time, and where constantly chastised for it, and ultimately paid the ultimate price for it. It seems some still haven't learned from their mistakes.

        Read "The
        Majesty of God's Law" by W. Cleon Skousen.

        ?


        • Originally posted by Commodore View Post

          That's perhaps the grossest misunderstanding of both the purpose and application of Mosaic Law in history. And I thought the Sadducees and Pharisees had that down to a science.

          First of all, the death penalty was only a certain in cases of murder. And for that two witnesses where required. This is because Mosaic law is based on the principals of restorative justice. In other words, if you damage someone in any way, you where to repair the damage done, along with a punitive fine to the community to make you think twice about doing it again. A solution would ideally be negotiated between a repentant transgressor who wanted to make amends. But sometimes it would have to be forced by the priests, and there was an elaborate appeals process for that. Violating the social or religious statutes, which where in place to preserve a homogeneous religious community, and prepare it to recognize their Messiah when He came, where more often than not enforced with exile. In other words, if you didn't want to follow social norms, you where ask to leave. Only if you refused, or came back unrepentant, would the stoning ensue. Death was the the worst possible penalty, not the first, and certainly not the common on.

          The whole point of the law was to teach people that they couldn't comply perfectly, hence the need for a Savior. If everyone was killed for the simplest transgression, as you would imply, you would quickly run out of judges, juries, and executioners. The Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees missed this point in Christ's time, and where constantly chastised for it, and ultimately paid the ultimate price for it. It seems some still haven't learned from their mistakes.

          Read "The
          Majesty of God's Law" by W. Cleon Skousen.
          So the verses I copied and pasted weren't the word of God? God was playing mind games with the flock? So anyone quoting the Old Testament specifically should always put in a footnote that says "of course this is just God F'n with us before he sent Jesus as our savior, don't be awful jerks to each other" ?

          ?


          • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
            So the verses I copied and pasted weren't the word of God? God was playing mind games with the flock? So anyone quoting the Old Testament specifically should always put in a footnote that says "of course this is just God F'n with us before he sent Jesus as our savior, don't be awful jerks to each other" ?
            No, those are absolutely potential outcomes if people persist in their behavior. But they get a chance to change first. That's the purpose of the judges.

            ?


            • These were laws pertaining to the rulers of Israel - laws regarding justice and courts. They were meant to give instructions to judges in Israel on how to administrate justice for the nation. It's like "case law," upon which legal precedents for future cases, in that time & place, may be understood:

              Deuteronomy 17:1-5 (KJV)

              Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evil favouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
              If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
              And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
              And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
              Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.


              Under the New Covenant, Christ is the sole High Priest and Mediator between God and man. He replaced the Aaronic priesthood. He did NOT replace, or negate the Commandments of God.

              John prepared the way for the coming shift away from ritual sacrifices. Away from the temple in Jerusalem, and away from the Aaronic priesthood.

              Under the New Covenant Jesus ultimate sacrifice as the Lamb of God would negate the physical temple rituals (Heb. 8-9). Negated the animal sacrifices (Heb. 10:9-10) The temple would be replaced by a spiritual body of believers in which Christ would dwell (II Cor. 6:16). Jesus would replaced the Aaronic priesthood as the sole Mediator between man and God (I Tim. 2:5) Christ Himself, as the living Word of God, would magnify the Law and make it glorious (Isa. 42:21) by revealing its true, spiritual intent (Matt. 5).

              We have to understand the context - the verses before and after, the chapters before and after etc. Does our understanding of a particular verse, or verses, harmonize with the rest of the Bible ? We have to ask, to whom was the book written and who wrote it ? Who said it ? We must try to understand the time frame in history when the book was written.

              We know that ANY text can be misrepresented by choosing bits-n-pieces out of context. Scriptures are favorite writings to do that with - that's no secret.

              ?


              • If we the children of God can decide the laws God gave to the Children of God no longer apply they make a poor defense for any modern political point, don"t they?
                Let's base our laws on our current laws and truthful rationality.

                ?


                • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

                  What I want is irrelevant. If you work on the Sabbath, you are supposed to be killed by your neighbors according to the Bible. A child should be executed for failing to honor a parent. Eatign certain food will despoil our bodies, and a despoiled body is a despoiled soul. It's not rocket science, it's the unerring and infallible literal truth spoken by God.
                  The hypocrisy comes from people both claiming verses they can live with are the word of God and those they don't like are somehow not the word of God.
                  I don't recall Jesus saying any of those things.

                  ?


                  • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                    If we the children of God can decide the laws God gave to the Children of God no longer apply they make a poor defense for any modern political point, don"t they?
                    Let's base our laws on our current laws and truthful rationality.
                    Truthful rationality is that men have penis's and women don't. We should solve the problem by changing the signs on the doors to Penis Room and Vagina Room. Gender will no longer be an issue. That was the purpose of signs anyway. Men's Room and Women's Room just sounds less crude. But if crude is what it takes, then so be it.

                    ?


                    • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

                      Not a great article it's a propaganda piece by a conservative activist group that pretends it's views are supported by scientifc and medical evidence time after time and issue after issue when they just aren't really.

                      We all know there are no special bathroom rules for peope with "handicaps"... classifying trans folk as handicapped just makes the North Carolina law and supporters of similar actions even more despicable.
                      We accommodate the handicap best we can without completely rearranging society. Handicap stalls. But we don't make all stalls accessible to the handicap so that they don't feel different or excluded. That would be too costly. The transgenders are not concerned with having a safe comfortable place to use the bathroom, as private places have been offered to accommodate them. Problem solved. They want to specifically use the bathroom with people of a different biological make up.

                      This whole issue is not about helping transgenders to function in society, it's about making a statement that transgenders are not different. THEY ARE DIFFERENT! Even you have to agree that there is scientific proof that they are different. So they could have DIFFERENT accommodations, just like all handicap people do, while having some obstacle in places where they can not be accommodated, due to the mass, natural design of human beings.

                      And by the way, if a woman should not feel uncomfortable in a ladies room, with male anatomy in a stall next to her, they why should a male transgender feel uncomfortable in mens room, with male anatomy in a stall next to him/her.

                      And why is the comfort of a transgender more important than the comfort of biological female?
                      Last edited by msc; 05-18-2016, 05:30 AM.

                      ?


                      • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                        If we the children of God can decide the laws God gave to the Children of God no longer apply they make a poor defense for any modern political point, don"t they?
                        Let's base our laws on our current laws and truthful rationality.
                        We the children of God can't decide the laws of God no longer apply.

                        That many of us do that, only underscores how we are under the law of sin and death.

                        “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” - Proverbs 14:12






                        ?


                        • Originally posted by msc View Post
                          Truthful rationality is that men have penis's and women don't. We should solve the problem by changing the signs on the doors to Penis Room and Vagina Room. Gender will no longer be an issue. That was the purpose of signs anyway. Men's Room and Women's Room just sounds less crude. But if crude is what it takes, then so be it.

                          That would "offend" everyone though.

                          ... even though I think it's funny as hell and "just desserts" for the fools trying to make a stink about bathrooms - which stink anyways LOL

                          This is such pointless foolishness, it's going nowhere. It IS funny to discuss though.

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                          • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

                            Here's an idea, actually read the Bible if you are going to use or support an argument supposedly derived from the bible. The passages in the Bible aren't new, they haven't gone away.

                            Here's a few.

                            Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
                            Deuteronomy 17:1-5 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshiped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
                            Deuteronomy 14:6-10, If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God.

                            (The New Testament confirms you will shall be damned for failing to believe, it does void the punishments set forth)

                            Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.
                            Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.

                            ( not so bad being cursed is sort of vague but probably not something the neighbors care for much.)

                            Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”
                            Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death

                            Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
                            Exodus 31:15 Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death
                            Numbers 15:32. And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
                            (notice it the Lord God making the Decision here not Moses)


                            Exodus 20:12 Honor thy father and thy mother.
                            Exodus 21:17 And he that curses his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death


                            Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
                            Leviticus 20:10 And the man that commits adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death


                            Notice the trend here? And if as some argue these were for another place and time and no longer binding, no arguments based on any of those books should be considered valid as they were for another place and time.

                            The law is still valid. The wages of sin is death. However, in God's eyes, that sin was paid, for believers, by Christ on the cross. We are all sinners as were all before us. Our sins can be forgiven by accepting the free gift of grace offered by God through the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus said The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

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                            • Don't forget "that sin was paid", people harming none shouldn't be targeted by the law.

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                              • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                                Don't forget "that sin was paid", people harming none shouldn't be targeted by the law.

                                They aren't being target by a law. They are being asked to obey the current law. They are the ones wanting a change in the law. Just like gay marriage. They wanted to change the law, not obey the current accepted law.

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