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Reforming Islam....

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  • #46
    Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

    Why do you think they are fighting in the Mideast? Political sovereignty. A bunch of european a-holes drew a bunch of lines following WW2 and we've been dealing with their idiocy ever since.
    Actually they drew the lines after WWI. Your point is still valid.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #47
      Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
      Why do you think they are fighting in the Mideast? Political sovereignty. A bunch of european a-holes drew a bunch of lines following WW2 and we've been dealing with their idiocy ever since.
      A "bunch of european a-holes," ... it had nothing to do with any other a-holes, or war-tribes or power-mad nuts motivated by.... lust for power usually.

      There's a hell of a lot of complex history to attempt to condense into a sentence like;

      "A bunch of european a-holes drew a bunch of lines following WW2 and we've been dealing with their idiocy ever since."

      ...and think that is going to be of any use to anyone.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #48
        Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

        A "bunch of european a-holes," ... it had nothing to do with any other a-holes, or war-tribes or power-mad nuts motivated by.... lust for power usually.

        There's a hell of a lot of complex history to attempt to condense into a sentence like;

        "A bunch of european a-holes drew a bunch of lines following WW2 and we've been dealing with their idiocy ever since."

        ...and think that is going to be of any use to anyone.
        To pretend the map-drawing argument has no relevance to the current problem, is an exercise in futility.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #49
          Originally posted by radcentr View Post
          To pretend the map-drawing argument has no relevance to the current problem, is an exercise in futility.
          To pretend that that alone, is all that the issue involves, is just as much an exercise in futility.

          To also pretend that these "lines" could somehow have been "drawn" in a way to please everyone, is fantasy thinking.

          My point being that the "rats-nest" over there, will probably always have people warring with one another. For what reason(s) ? Humans seem to lust for war for power, for greed for control, dominance .. what-ever. It doesn't necessarily have to make sense or even have a very good reason. History illustrates this over and over...

          ... it seems to be part of our very nature ?.... I think so.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #50
            Originally posted by redrover View Post

            Actually they drew the lines after WWI. Your point is still valid.
            Damn typo, fixed it

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

              A "bunch of european a-holes," ... it had nothing to do with any other a-holes, or war-tribes or power-mad nuts motivated by.... lust for power usually.

              There's a hell of a lot of complex history to attempt to condense into a sentence like;

              "A bunch of european a-holes drew a bunch of lines following WW1 and we've been dealing with their idiocy ever since."

              ...and think that is going to be of any use to anyone.
              Fact are facts they are not the lies frauds use to manipulate fools.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #52
                Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                To pretend that that alone, is all that the issue involves, is just as much an exercise in futility.

                To also pretend that these "lines" could somehow have been "drawn" in a way to please everyone, is fantasy thinking.

                My point being that the "rats-nest" over there, will probably always have people warring with one another. For what reason(s) ? Humans seem to lust for war for power, for greed for control, dominance .. what-ever. It doesn't necessarily have to make sense or even have a very good reason. History illustrates this over and over...

                ... it seems to be part of our very nature ?.... I think so.
                So it's everyone's nature. Not just the musllims. You have completely destroyed the "muslims are violent" message with this post and agreed with : all people can be violent regradless of faith.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #53
                  Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                  So it's everyone's nature. Not just the musllims. You have completely destroyed the "muslims are violent" message with this post and agreed with : all people can be violent regradless of faith.
                  While true that;

                  "..all people can be violent regardless of faith."

                  If we want to be honest, some faiths are rooted in, and encourage violence & dominance . . . others aren't & don't.

                  The issue might be stated; "Should a religion that promotes our already violent and war-like nature be encouraged ? If we decide so, should we then be upset when we see blood, murder, even genocide ?"

                  Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                  Fact are facts they are not the lies frauds use to manipulate fools.
                  Yes, facts are facts. And you're ignoring about ten thousand important and relevant facts so you can defend simplifying the issue to such a goofy statement as;

                  "A bunch of european a-holes drew a bunch of lines following WW1 and we've been dealing with their idiocy ever since."


                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                    While true that;

                    "..all people can be violent regardless of faith."

                    If we want to be honest, some faiths are rooted in, and encourage violence & dominance . . . others aren't & don't.

                    The issue might be stated; "Should a religion that promotes our already violent and war-like nature be encouraged ? If we decide so, should we then be upset when we see blood, murder, even genocide ?"



                    Yes, facts are facts. And you're ignoring about ten thousand important and relevant facts so you can defend simplifying the issue to such a goofy statement as;

                    "A bunch of european a-holes drew a bunch of lines following WW1 and we've been dealing with their idiocy ever since."

                    All except it's not "goofy" it's absolutely what happened.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                      All except it's not "goofy" it's absolutely what happened.
                      IF so, would things have been better without some europeans drawing some lines ? What were their motivations for drawing them the way they did ? Was it done in hopes of solving some conflicts ? I suspect it was. Which is my main point. Somehow people wanted to solve a conflict or some conflicts. Did they do it well, could they have done it better ? I don't know, maybe. But hindsight .....

                      ... we can look back and blame people of the past for things just as people will probably look back and blame US.

                      We're still screwball humans screwing stuff up regularly.

                      In the past, they thought they solved things, now we think WE'RE solving things, yet still things never get solved.

                      Usually we just create bigger troubles for ourselves... obama and his "care," gay marriage, global warming, transgender bathrooms & black lives matter LOL

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                        IF so, would things have been better without some europeans drawing some lines ? ... LOL
                        In one word, yes. It is bad enuf to have the local despots drawing map lines after the latest stupid war has ended. To have distant interests -political and economic- taking out their crayons to drew the lines, instead? That's asking for more trouble. If you think distant interests, who were recently involved in wars to carve up (not eliminate) empires, will execute a decent plan for regional peace, please elaborate.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                          In one word, yes. It is bad enuf to have the local despots drawing map lines after the latest stupid war has ended. To have distant interests -political and economic- taking out their crayons to drew the lines, instead? That's asking for more trouble. If you think distant interests, who were recently involved in wars to carve up (not eliminate) empires, will execute a decent plan for regional peace, please elaborate.
                          Following WWI the powers drawing the lines didn't pay much attention to traditional tribal boundaries.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #58
                            It may not have mattered. Draw lines, create boundaries or let THEM do it . . . and would they have ? Probably . . . not. Same results, warring "tribes" of whatevers, never able to make peace.

                            What's new ?

                            We attempted. The argument that we shouldn't have attempted can be made. Would that have made things better or worse ? Why and how ?

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

                              I'm not a liberal and you are an ignorant fool if you think religion had nothing to do with it. I've been in an Irish home for a wake way back when to pay my respects and the woman of the house found out I was of English heritage but relaxed on learning I was Catholic (as I was at the time).
                              So the violence in Northern Ireland, between the Prots and the Catholics, what differing religious belief were they killing one another over. We know of the religious difference between the Sunnis and Shiites, which they killed one another over, so tell us what contentious religious difference was involved in the Irish murders? I am just asking, for I really don't know. I was under the impression this conflict was driven by politics, and the religious difference was not the cause of this. Just because it was prots murdering catholics and vice versa does not mean it was a religious war, right?



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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

                                So it's everyone's nature. Not just the musllims. You have completely destroyed the "muslims are violent" message with this post and agreed with : all people can be violent regradless of faith.
                                Yes human beings have always been very violent. But the question is, does islam tend to be violent, beyond general violence, because of their religious beliefs? And do those beliefs tend to make them more violent than say, Christians? And we must put this into the context of today, for what either group did hundreds of years ago is not important today, given we do not live in an earlier era, and religions can change. We certainly see a great change in Christianity, when comparing today to much earlier times.

                                Islam tends to follow their religious books to the letter, more so than Christianity does today. But yet, the condoned violence and killing in the NT is almost 180 degrees from the condoned and even prescribed violence, coming from God via his prophet mohammed in the Islamic religious texts. Given the way Christ taught to treat others, non believers, when compared to what god supposedly told mohammed about treatment, and punishment, and in regards to war, is not at all comparable. So, if a Christian followed the NT, there would be no violence or murder at all. The same is not true of the Islamic religious texts, quite the contrary. So, a muslim is told by god to be violent, even to murder and a good muslim follows what god told him to do, and how to act.

                                Given this, one without even going to the middle east to observe for himself, would logically expect islam to be much more violent and murderous, IF they followed what their sacred, holy books told them to do. But if a Christian followed what the NT told them to do, it would be lacking in violence and murder. Does this make a difference between the two religions, making islam more violent, in reality? I think objective people would have to say yes. For you cannot be a good muslim unless you do as allah told you to do. And you cannot be a good Christian if you do not follow what god in the NT told the followers to do. So god did not tell the muslims to behave like Christians, nor did he tell the Christian to behave as muslims are supposed to behave. It seems to be a totally different god, or one that changes his mind on some very core issues. LOL



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