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For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

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  • #16
    Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

    For conservatives "freedom" seems to mean low taxes, few or no gun control laws, and little else. During the Cold War they approved of black lists, loyalty oaths, and efforts to discover and destroy the careers of Communist Party Members and Communist sympathizers. Of course, they also favor laws against abortion. Most of them opposed the civil rights movement.

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    • #17
      Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

      Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
      Seat belt laws were made the law of the land because business interests, the insurance lobby wanted them, to help in their profits.
      Purely idiotic.

      From a business standpoint, which is more fiscally attractive?

      1. Johnny leaves the roadway and hits a tree. His unrestrained body exits the vehicle via the windshield, and his brans end up on the hood. Cost of medical care: $0. Perhaps a few hundred dollars for the EMS response in some areas.
      2. Johnny leaves the roadway and hits a tree. His seatbelt and airbag combine to restrain him in the vehicle. He suffers life threatening injuries, and is flown to the trauma center where he spends a week in the TICU and has several surgeries. Cost of medical care: $350,000 or more.

      Yeah, it makes a great deal of business sense to lobby for the second outcome over the first. :rolleyes:

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      • #18
        Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

        Freedom? No one else seems to have mentioned it, but I'll throw it in.

        Freedom FROM government!
        Freedom FROM government dictating every cotton pickin' little thing that we can and can't do.

        It's politically correctness gone amok!
        It's tyranny of the majority by the minority, just because it's politically correct.
        It's all BS, and it should all just stop.

        Well, that's just me anyway.

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        • #19
          Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
          Well, I used to know being a republican did not mean you were conservative, as there were moderate republicans. But they seem to be dying off, or like Snow, not running again. Thing is, I can identify with the likes of Ike, a republican. He had to fight the cons of that era, I think.

          But the dems used to have moderates too, and even some that were a bit more conservative. These days that party seems to have been hijacked by an ideology created outside of reality, in ivory towers by egg heads, who have no experience in the affairs of human nature.

          I pretty much detest both parties today, really. Neither one represents the interests of my kith and kin. Neither one really represents average working americans, which are still the majority in this nation. The average folks just have not figured that out yet, thanks to very skilled and clever propaganda which is MSM, including Fox.
          Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
          Freedom? No one else seems to have mentioned it, but I'll throw it in.

          Freedom FROM government!
          Freedom FROM government dictating every cotton pickin' little thing that we can and can't do.

          It's politically correctness gone amok!
          It's tyranny of the majority by the minority, just because it's politically correct.
          It's all BS, and it should all just stop.

          Well, that's just me anyway.
          Carefully tally up those whose boisterous personalities will stand up and control you with or without subtlety.
          They are here and have always been here and that's why the level of freedom you desire will never come about.

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          • #20
            This is freedom to me:

            As a rule I am conservative on social issues, and liberal on the economy and environment. I like and trust the government. I dislike and distrust the business community. I want a large, powerful, and expensive government paid for by steeply progressive taxation. I want strong labor unions, and a high minimum wage. I want a well financed public sector of the government.

            The most important freedom to me is intellectual freedom. I want to be able to evaluate different points of view, make up my mind, and express my opinions on various controversial subjects without fear of legal, economic, or social sanctions.

            From the McCarthy Era until the Tet Offensive of 1968 when War in Vietnam became controversial it was often dangerous in the United States to advocate socialism, criticize capitalism, or say anything good about any Communist country. There were loyalty oaths, witch hunts, and black lists.

            From 1963 to 1964 Hootenanny was a popular television program featuring folk music. Unfortunately, it blacklisted Pete Seeger because he had been a member of the American Communist Party. What were they afraid of? Did they think his songs passed coded messages to the KGB?

            Fortunately, since the fall of the Soviet Union it has been fairly safe to be a Communist Party member, or a Communist sympathizer. Here is the CPUSA website:

            Home » cpusa

            Unfortunately, since the early 1970s it has often been dangerous to maintain in public that one agrees with men like Richard Herrnstein, Arthur Jensen, J. Philippe Rushton, and Charles Murray. These have argued that intelligence is the single most important factor determining economic success, that it is primarily determined by genetics, and that Orientals tend to have more of it than whites, who tend to have more than Hispanics, who tend to have more than blacks.

            Professor Rushton presents his viewpoint in an excellent essay that can be found here:

            http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org...n_Behavior.pdf

            Until it becomes perfectly safe to say in public that the Negro race is intrinsically inferior and inherently violent and criminal, and present scientific evidence for those assertions, it cannot be said that intellectual freedom exists in the United States.

            I want the intellectual constraints of political correctness to collapse.

            Hostility to Jews and Orientals infuriates me, and makes me almost ill, but I am not in favor of prohibiting the expression of it, because antisemitic and anti Oriental arguments are easy to refute. This is because those two racial groups are biologically and morally superior.
            Last edited by Mandala; 12-06-2012, 07:35 AM.

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            • #21
              Re: This is freedom to me:

              Originally posted by Mandala View Post
              As a rule I am conservative on social issues, and liberal on the economy and environment. I like and trust the government. I dislike and distrust the business community. I want a large, powerful, and expensive government paid for by steeply progressive taxation. I want strong labor unions, and a high minimum wage. I want a well financed public sector of the government.

              .
              And this is exactly the opposite of what I believe and want. That is why there is such a divide in the country today. You want a huge oppressive government paid for by someone other than yourself and I want a small freer country that would cost very little and which should be paid for equally by everyone.

              Libs always allege that the Radical Religious Right wants to force their ideas on society when just the opposite is true. It is the radical left that wants to force its big government ideas down everyone's throat and not only do they want that, they want those who are having it shoved down their throat to pay for it.

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              • #22
                Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                Seat belt laws were made the law of the land because business interests, the insurance lobby wanted them, to help in their profits. Each time we lose some personal freedom, money, the making of money is behind it. Profits RULE, nothing else. This is what happens when capitalism becomes religion-like, or what religion once was, a major controller of people. The making of the most profit possible run this nation today, not the ideals of the founders. And republicans worship these profit makers. They want to give em free rein, as they usurp personal freedom of the populace.

                This is creating a new order in american society, and it has been going on in hyper drive since reagen and the conservative revolution. Cons really don't want more freedom, if it hinders the maxing out of profits for a few of us. I believe that to the bone. Cons want business interests to have the freedom to screw over the unworthy folks. Only the monetary successful folks deserve freedom. It sure seems that way to me.
                The seat belt laws are not "conservative" legislation. The insurance companies pushed for it, but it is not conservative. The conservative approach would be to allow insurance companies to deny coverage to customers injured while not wearing seat belts. People could shop elsewhere if they did not want to wear seat belts and the peoples' freedom would not be infringed.

                There have been some good definitions for freedom. Total freedom is anarchy, but I believe in minimal government intrusion. My biggest complaint is Federal government spending. My money is taken for governments wasteful, discretionary spending, that is not specifically authorized in the Constitution. (10th ammendment) States can handle welfare, education, healthcare legislation, and just about anything else much more efficiently and if we feel oppressed, we can always move to another state. 50 states can act as test beds to find out what works and other states can learn from them. Fraud can be more effectively managed by the states as well, since they don't have the option to print more money and run at a deficit indefinitely.

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                • #23
                  Re: This is freedom to me:

                  Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                  And this is exactly the opposite of what I believe and want. That is why there is such a divide in the country today. You want a huge oppressive government paid for by someone other than yourself and I want a small freer country that would cost very little and which should be paid for equally by everyone.

                  Libs always allege that the Radical Religious Right wants to force their ideas on society when just the opposite is true. It is the radical left that wants to force its big government ideas down everyone's throat and not only do they want that, they want those who are having it shoved down their throat to pay for it.
                  The only freedom I care about is intellectual freedom. Otherwise I want a government that helps me get through life. That is what most Americans want. That is why Republican efforts to cut Social Security, Medicare, and other domestic spending programs always fail.

                  Whenever Republican politicians get beyond vague generalities about making the government live within its means, putting the government on a diet, and so on, and become specific about which programs to cut or eliminate, they run into spirited popular resistance. Much of it comes from registered Republicans.

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                  • #24
                    Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

                    Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                    Freedom? No one else seems to have mentioned it, but I'll throw it in.

                    Freedom FROM government!
                    Freedom FROM government dictating every cotton pickin' little thing that we can and can't do.

                    It's politically correctness gone amok!
                    It's tyranny of the majority by the minority, just because it's politically correct.
                    It's all BS, and it should all just stop.

                    Well, that's just me anyway.
                    Glad I read through posts before writing ... nearly the same thing over again.

                    Yes, freedom is keeping the criminals that run "government" out of our lives !!! Out of our lives, and keeping to the barest of minimums their ability to make "laws" that benefit only THEMSELVES !!!.... Too long they've been able to pull the wool over the peoples eyes with do good, feel good lies that sound like they're of benefit to US, when they're only of benefit to THEM.

                    Typical of criminals. Make "laws" that they don't have to, or won't follow.



                    I want freedom from these people !!!

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                    • #25
                      Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

                      For me, as a conservative, this is freedom:
                      - freedom of speech, thought, information, gathering, press, religion, (and I bet you can name some more freedoms that fits here),
                      - having a cost-effective government that, with low taxes, protects the property, liberty, and freedoms of speech etc. of the people,
                      - having a government that is run according to the constitutional laws enacted by a directly elected parliament, and whose doings are open to the people,
                      - having a government that is not termed as "the people", i.e. that I am not a metaphysical part of a collective known as "the people" who "is" the government, i.e. having a government that is a constitutional monarchy.

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                      • #26
                        Re: For Conservatives, What is Freedom to You?

                        Originally posted by DGG View Post
                        For me, as a conservative, this is freedom:
                        - freedom of speech, thought, information, gathering, press, religion, (and I bet you can name some more freedoms that fits here),
                        - having a cost-effective government that, with low taxes, protects the property, liberty, and freedoms of speech etc. of the people,
                        - having a government that is run according to the constitutional laws enacted by a directly elected parliament, and whose doings are open to the people,
                        - having a government that is not termed as "the people", i.e. that I am not a metaphysical part of a collective known as "the people" who "is" the government, i.e. having a government that is a constitutional monarchy.
                        Freedom is effectively being free to do anything I want within the bounds of not encroaching on someone else's rights.

                        It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that each of us has the right to keep and bear arms, so long as we do not personally endanger some one else with our arms. IE, I have a gun, I do not shoot people or destroy their property with that gun. Beyond that no one has a right to infringe on my right to have that gun. Of course this can be extrapolated to any action of which we are free until it infringes on the rights of another.

                        As to taxes, it is not the level or rate of taxes per se which is acceptable or unacceptable. It is the use to which those taxes are put. Federal taxes should be high enough to accomplish every thing which is constitutionally authorized by the Constitution; not a penny more or a penny less.

                        The problem with the federal taxes today is simple; they are collected to allow the government to do many things which are IAW the 10th amendment of the constitution are the province of the sovereign states or the individual.

                        It has gotten to the point that the IRS collects so much from our tax base that there is not enough left for the states to do their job IAW with what the citizens of the sovereign states deem is proper.
                        Last edited by CharlesD; 01-04-2013, 09:52 AM.

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