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ID: religion, philosophy or science?

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  • ID: religion, philosophy or science?

    Given that this topic comes up just about every time we have a thread which is tangentially related to the subject of origins I thought it might be fitting to devote a thread to it.

    To the extent that ID amounts to design detection, it is no less of a scientific endeavor than SETI, which attempts to discover signals from outer space that may be attributable to an intelligent cause. This is an excellent analogy because, once SETI rules out chance as the source for a signal, the inference to design is made and there is nothing to be said about the nature of the designer.

    Only that the signal has an intelligent cause.

    Thoughts?
    21
    Intelligent design is religion.
    47.62%
    10
    Intelligent design is philosophy
    23.81%
    5
    Intelligent design is religion except when it’s philosophy
    9.52%
    2
    Intelligent design is a legitimate science.
    19.05%
    4

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

    In my mind, there are too many holes in the theory of evolution to believe it to be true. It requires more assumption and belief than what I see around me every day.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

      SETI is a collection of experiments based upon the scientific possibility of extraterrestrial life being able to generate signals we can detect. SETI is a scientific endevor because it is grounded in science and not opinion, it absolutely depends on testable mechanisms and not an ultimate conclusion framed by ignorance.

      ID is a failed attempt to get creationism taught in school as if it were science.
      ID isn't science as it isn't testable, predicitve, or generative.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

        Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
        In my mind, there are too many holes in the theory of evolution to believe it to be true. It requires more assumption and belief than what I see around me every day.
        I won't argue that. It's been my experience that the more I've learned about it [this whole topic, generally] the less sure I am about any of it.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

          Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
          In my mind, there are too many holes in the theory of evolution to believe it to be true. It requires more assumption and belief than what I see around me every day.
          And what exactly does your incomplete understanding of evolution have to do with Intelligent Design?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

            Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
            And how exactly does your incomplete understanding of evolution have to do with Intelligent Design?
            The same as everyone else's incomplete understanding of evolution.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

              Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
              The same as everyone else's incomplete understanding of evolution.
              So no coherent answer, just out and a-trolling.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                I voted ID was a philosophy. All science started out as philosophy so this seems to be an accurate category to put ID in for the moment.

                I buy into the idea that life evolves as it adapts to environment, but to me that is an intelligence operating, although we cannot grasp and measure such an intelligence. But I do not buy into this idea that the creation of the first life just happened without a prime mover and an intelligence driving it. Because for life to just arise by happenstance, with the necessary building blocks being present by happenstance is little different to me than this idea of a God with a long white beard, stern eyes and white robe surrounded by angelic beings who do his bidding. Both require leaps of faith which I am not willing to do. One can have faith in elves and gnomes, but that doesn't mean they exist.

                I find some of the ideas coming from a few quantum physicists, that matter comes from a non local consciousness, and an intelligence is involved. That is, everything in the universe that we see existed as a potentiality until the consciousness observed it which made it move from a potentiality to an actuality. And of course the intelligence which is a part of that non local consciousness plays an intrinsic role in the creation of the universe and the life within it. And that intelligence would form the foundation for ID.

                But this is still within the philosophical realm, and perhaps may always remain there. We see a common pattern repeating itself in nature. Take for instance the what that rivers look from high altitudes. They look just like the blood veins in life forms, from man to tree leaves. Yet the vein patterns formed by our rivers is due to the effect of gravity upon water as it pulls it from higher elevations to lower elevations. Yet we see this same pattern in the circulatory system of life forms. Is it mere coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences.

                You can of course explain scientifically why rivers look like veins, and why veins take the patterns that they do, yet they did not have the same CAUSE. Yet the pattern repeats itself in so many things. An intelligence would explain this, the great similarity between the two patterns.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                  Can we add "Intelligent Design is a dishonest hoax." to the survey?

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                    Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                    So no coherent answer, just out and a-trolling.
                    So, in your mind, the Theory of Evolution is no longer a Theory, it is now the Fact of Evolution.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                      If one chooses to discuss what is or isn't a scientific theory they might benefit themselves and the discussion by knowing what they are talking about and just what a scientific theory is.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                        Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                        If one chooses to discuss what is or isn't a scientific theory they might benefit themselves and the discussion by knowing what they are talking about and just what a scientific theory is.
                        So no coherent answer, just out and a-trolling.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                          I think you are falling into the trap that gets many people Dan (I hope you don't mind me shortening your name from now on as I post from a tab and the onscreen keyboard is less than optimal even though I realise by typing this long speech I'm kind of ruining my own argument) in that I think you are failing to see the right use of the scientific word theory.
                          There has been some debate about this in the UK recently as it's so common so please don't think I'm criticizing you.

                          The Language of Science – it’s

                          The theory of gravity is still only a theory but I have a feeling you'd look pretty odd if you tried to say it wasn't pretty much proven by now.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                            In my mind, there are too many holes in the theory of evolution to believe it to be true. It requires more assumption and belief than what I see around me every day.
                            I think there is more evidence to support evolution than you might be aware of.
                            Description

                            How did life evolve on Earth? The answer to this question can help us understand our past and prepare for our future. Although evolution provides credible and reliable answers, polls show that many people turn away from science, seeking other explanations with which they are more comfortable.

                            In the book Science, Evolution, and Creationism, a group of experts assembled by the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine explain the fundamental methods of science, document the overwhelming evidence in support of biological evolution, and evaluate the alternative perspectives offered by advocates of various kinds of creationism, including "intelligent design." The book explores the many fascinating inquiries being pursued that put the science of evolution to work in preventing and treating human disease, developing new agricultural products, and fostering industrial innovations. The book also presents the scientific and legal reasons for not teaching creationist ideas in public school science classes.

                            Mindful of school board battles and recent court decisions, Science, Evolution, and Creationism shows that science and religion should be viewed as different ways of understanding the world rather than as frameworks that are in conflict with each other and that the evidence for evolution can be fully compatible with religious faith. For educators, students, teachers, community leaders, legislators, policy makers, and parents who seek to understand the basis of evolutionary science, this publication will be an essential resource.

                            Science, Evolution, and Creationism
                            It's a short read, and it does provide multiple examples of evolution in action, both past and present.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #15
                              Re: ID: religion, philosophy or science?

                              Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                              I think you are falling into the trap that gets many people Dan (I hope you don't mind me shortening your name from now on as I post from a tab and the onscreen keyboard is less than optimal even though I realise by typing this long speech I'm kind of ruining my own argument) in that I think you are failing to see the right use of the scientific word theory.
                              There has been some debate about this in the UK recently as it's so common so please don't think I'm criticizing you.

                              The Language of Science – it’s
                              Dan is fine and I understand what you are saying. I simply don't see any more proof of the theory of evolution than I do of the theory of intelligent design. People have to make all sorts of wild assumptions to conclude what the theory of evolution does. To me it requires much more faith than does intelligent design.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?

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