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Kids, meet Darwin the dog

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  • Blue Doggy
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    So you're not even going with the Bible as a reference? You're going to use the word of some dead pope and his bishops?
    And lets be clear: You espouse it because when you didn't you "got into trouble". IE a nun beat you.
    My god do you even realize how brain washed you are? Do you realize that Christ would drive the pope and his cronies as well as most any other "christian authority" ive ever seen or heard of, from the Church with a cat-o-nine of brambles, thorns, and venomous snakes? Have you even read the bible yourself EVER? Do you realize that it was codified by a fucking Roman Emperor to name only one of the powerful secular men who had their sticky fingers in the pot? To say nothing of the powerful religious men? Do you realize that the CATECHISM IS NOT SCRIPTURE!>!>!>!!>!
    All orthodox christians are brainwashed. The Church from which all of our denominations sprung was a creation of men, and fashioned to be a mesh with the Roman Empire. It was, and has always been the False Church, that espouses a religion ABOUT Christ as opposed to the religion OF Christ, a religion that placed his teachings at the apex and followed those teachings. Instead they turned christ into just another idol, to be worhshipped, while refusing to do what he said must be done. To die unto the self so that conscousness is reborn, and this rebirth changes man so deeply as to change his relationship with his fellow man, and the world at large. A man who has been reborn is in a spiritual state of mind that places him into a Kingdom that is not of thought, not created by thought and is therefore untouched, unsoiled by thought. It brings great order into the life of this man, and he lives a moral life without making a single effort to do that. The law is imprinted, so to speak, upon his heart, and it is only natural that he be moral no longer being driven by the wants and needs of the ego.

    There is no part of the Teachings that I do not understand. Hell, it's as plain and simple as the nose on your face. It is the simplicity of all simplicities. And so few ever see it. Thought, the vast structures of a religion created by thought pushes away the Truth of the Teachings. Thought cannot give anyone the things christ taught us of. Thought, images, have no place in the Sacred. It is beyond thought and can only be found when the mind is silent. In silence one comes across IT.

    So yes christ would negate what has been built in his name. It is an insult to His Teachings.

    Leave a comment:


  • JHC
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
    A site for humanists, i.e. atheists. To each his own I reckon. The only thing that bothers me a bit about these people is their egos are larger than their brains. Human knowledge is SO limited. Yet with this little bit of knowledge it takes a helluva ego to exclaim he knows the TRUTH and the truth is, there is no creator of the universe. LOL. I mean think about it With such a limited knowledge only an oversized ego would ever make such "final" statements.

    The real truth here is man has no clue which end of his univese is up, and he then gets busy making assumptions. On these assumtions he rests a very limited knowledge, and from this wobbly structure he makes all sorts of claims. Egoism arises from human ignorance. That's my take on it. Atheists are all men of very large egos. When is the last time you met a humble atheist? Hell they don't exist.

    Humanism, atheism is a religion of large human egos.
    I am an atheist. Should I be offended by this post? Is this an attack on atheism?

    If it takes massive ego to claim knowledge of the unknowable, how does this effect your view of those claiming that there is a creator?

    Leave a comment:


  • JHC
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Darth Hussein Omar View Post
    I stumbled onto this Humanist site whilst surfing the web at work since my services weren't required at the moment. One thing that was particularly interesting was the emphasis placed on Darwin's theory. Which, I am constantly reminded [by some, anyway], is just a theory, that has nothing to do with religion.

    Kids Without God

    Obviously, in our open and democratic society, there is plenty of room for humanists as well as us theists. But only humanists get to have their religious doctrine [ok, their beliefs] sanctioned by the state and funded by state and federal tax dollars.

    Do you think that is fair?

    Note: I don't propose a remedy, at this point anyway. I just thought it might make for good debate fodder.
    Humanists also advocate and promote looking both ways before crossing a street. Is it fair that this belief is sanctioned by the state and funded by federal law?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cleisthenes
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    You can't even prove that your perceptions are true. This could all be an illusion crafted through various means ranging from self deception of various and sundry sorts, to imprisonment either by a discrete being or the universe itself etc. You cannot even legitimately prove an I. Thought and perception. That is all you can prove, that those things take place. Everything else is suspect and an assumption. So good luck proceeding from there.
    We may not be able to prove that our perceptions match reality, but if we assume otherwise then everything is out the window, and where does that get us?

    Leave a comment:


  • CalifornCracker
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    So you're not even going with the Bible as a reference? You're going to use the word of some dead pope and his bishops?
    Are you suggesting that ""Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means 'rock'), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it," is not a Biblical reference? Are you denying the fact that Peter is a clear historical figure?
    And lets be clear: You espouse it because when you didn't you "got into trouble". IE a nun beat you.
    Since I sought the Church as an adult your perceptions are all screwed up. I did briefly go to a "Christian Academy", protestant in nature, but never to a Catholic school.
    My god do you even realize how brain washed you are?
    By no means can I be realistically called "brain washed" when it comes to my SELECTION of religion. I CHOSE rather than inherited Catholicism and dis after a lot of research and soul searching. What I particularly liked besides the basic tenets was the way the Holy Spirit imposes his will upon the faith and morals teachings of the Church, helping to interpret scripture based on culture and the times. I personally do not believe that any human, simple or educated, is capable of totally understanding scripture, thus the need for the Holy Spirit to assist and evangelize. (Which is exactly what I believe he did in my case.)
    Do you realize that Christ would drive the pope and his cronies as well as most any other "christian authority" ive ever seen or heard of, from the Church with a cat-o-nine of brambles, thorns, and venomous snakes?
    Now that is a powerful waste of human thought. After having studied various Christian denominations I came to the conclusion that of all the various faiths, the one which more closely represents Jesus Christ is the Catholic Church. Having said that, I have no problem with people who choose another denomination.
    Have you even read the bible yourself EVER? Do you realize that it was codified by a fucking Roman Emperor to name only one of the powerful secular men who had their sticky fingers in the pot? To say nothing of the powerful religious men? Do you realize that the CATECHISM IS NOT SCRIPTURE!>!>!>!!>!
    Of course I am aware Catechism is not scripture, and I at no time suggested it was. But when I read the Catechism of the RC Church, then read what other denominations teach, my personal realization was besides the RC Church, the only alternatives were the Episcopal, the Lutheran, or the High Presbyterian denominations as the closest to the actual teachings of Jesus. If you choose to believe otherwise that is your prerogative.

    I am sure you realize your take on the Catholic Church is nothing more that some of the humans who were leaders, NOT THE CHURCH ITSELF.
    Last edited by CalifornCracker; 11-21-2012, 09:54 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Hussein Omar
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Jefe View Post
    I guess that was a bit abrasive - sorry, Darth, that wasn't my intent. My "sucks to be you" comment wasn't really directed at you personally, it was more of a "you all" thing.
    I actually didn't take it as abrasive, Jefe. But thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalifornCracker
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    Not following the tenets of the Catholic Church does not equal Betraying the Son of Man. That would be worshipping the Devil, the only other unforgivable sin that is not suicide. Way to take that WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of context.
    Betraying the Son of Man is against the tenets of all Christian Denominations. I was not being specific to the RC Church.

    Leave a comment:


  • reality
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Darth Hussein Omar View Post
    My beliefs are more science based than a lot of scientists would admit, but that's a different debate.

    My broader point is that Darwin has implications for other areas of thought. And the humanists would agree with me.
    So does Jefferson, or Locke or Hobbes, Rousseau or Lenin etc ad nausem. Hell even MARTIN LUTHER is taught in the classroom (history and government, multiple courses, covered multiple times) as well as numerous theologic poets in English. Evolution is fact man. None of darwins ideas other than natural selection are taught. Since those are FACTS I'm still not seeing why you're complaining.

    Leave a comment:


  • reality
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Cleisthenes View Post
    There is ample evidence that our consciousness is affected by the chemical processes in our brain and that our consciousness doesn't survive brain death. Why should we then believe that our consciousness preceded the brain?
    You can't even prove that your perceptions are true. This could all be an illusion crafted through various means ranging from self deception of various and sundry sorts, to imprisonment either by a discrete being or the universe itself etc. You cannot even legitimately prove an I. Thought and perception. That is all you can prove, that those things take place. Everything else is suspect and an assumption. So good luck proceeding from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • reality
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by CalifornCracker View Post
    If you came up young in the Church I would presume you know that the Church did not exist until Jesus said, "Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means 'rock'), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it," making Peter the first leader of the Church. As the Church grew and the laws of the Church were written down we can access those laws, also called the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and try to understand what the Church really means.

    I quoted from the Catechism Paragraph 847, that which the Church teaches. I learned a long time ago that winging the Catechism is an easy way to get in trouble.

    Basically I understand that, "betray the Son of Man" to mean "disobey the laws of the Church" but I think that is elementary as to understanding following Jesus.

    So you're not even going with the Bible as a reference? You're going to use the word of some dead pope and his bishops?
    And lets be clear: You espouse it because when you didn't you "got into trouble". IE a nun beat you.
    My god do you even realize how brain washed you are? Do you realize that Christ would drive the pope and his cronies as well as most any other "christian authority" ive ever seen or heard of, from the Church with a cat-o-nine of brambles, thorns, and venomous snakes? Have you even read the bible yourself EVER? Do you realize that it was codified by a fucking Roman Emperor to name only one of the powerful secular men who had their sticky fingers in the pot? To say nothing of the powerful religious men? Do you realize that the CATECHISM IS NOT SCRIPTURE!>!>!>!!>!

    Leave a comment:


  • reality
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by CalifornCracker View Post
    Since your question was in response to my comment, ""better he not be born":

    Matthew 26:24 "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

    and

    Mark 14:21 "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
    Not following the tenets of the Catholic Church does not equal Betraying the Son of Man. That would be worshipping the Devil, the only other unforgivable sin that is not suicide. Way to take that WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of context.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jefe
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by soot View Post
    I agree witth what Jefe said. I wouldn't have been quite so abrasive in making the point (this being a holiday weekend and all), but it's a valid point nevertheless.
    I guess that was a bit abrasive - sorry, Darth, that wasn't my intent. My "sucks to be you" comment wasn't really directed at you personally, it was more of a "you all" thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • soot
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Darth Hussein Omar View Post
    Rather, Darwin is a fundamental tenet of the humanist belief system: consequently, they get to have a fundamental aspect of their belief system essentially presented as fact in public schools---via tax dollars, since it is not taught for free.
    I agree witth what Jefe said. I wouldn't have been quite so abrasive in making the point (this being a holiday weekend and all), but it's a valid point nevertheless.

    Another thing I'd add is that Natural Selection is taught as a scientific theory. It's a central tenent of how evolution occurs, but nobody in the scientific community considers it a law.

    Part of what its status as a "theory" entails is the possibility that it can be disproven, or that it can be added to or changed if future observations and experimentation warrant.

    Humanists understand that, there's no real argument with it or debate over whether or not it should be a law. It's been a pretty reliable theory up to this point, and it's allowed us to make great strides in biology, genetics, and numerous other scientific fields, but everyone with any skin in the game understands that it isn't immutable and that far more proof is required before it is considered a law (if ever).

    Compare that "humanist dogma" to the dogma of any (real) religion you know.

    Do Christians believe that Christ dying on the cross for mankind's salvation is a "theory", open to debate and possible future revision?

    Do Muslims accept the idea that there may very well be more gods than Allah, but we just haven't discovered them yet?

    Will Jews entertain the notion that the Messiah won't redeem Israel?

    No need to answer any of that, it's all rhetorical.

    Anyhow, that's the difference between science and religion.

    If religious leaders wanted to teach religion in school as a theory I wouldn't have that a big a problem with it.

    All the various religions could get together and drum up some curriculum whereby all of their various unproven beliefs are taught as theory and there are no bones made about the fact that any, or every one of them might be completly barking up the wrong tree.

    But we'll never see that because admitting that you have absolutely no proof to substantiate your beliefs, and that some other religion (theory) might be right while yours is wrong, runs totally contrary to what religion is all about.

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  • Darth Hussein Omar
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Jefe View Post
    Yeah, but Darwin's theories are also fundemental "tenets" of a basic science curriculum, so.. I guess it sucks for you that your beliefs aren't science based? I mean, I don't really get what your complaint is here. If your religious beliefs happened to coincide with scientific theory, then your religious beliefs would (indirectly) be taught in science classrooms.
    My beliefs are more science based than a lot of scientists would admit, but that's a different debate.

    My broader point is that Darwin has implications for other areas of thought. And the humanists would agree with me.

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  • Jefe
    replied
    Re: Kids, meet Darwin the dog

    Originally posted by Darth Hussein Omar View Post
    Rather, Darwin is a fundamental tenet of the humanist belief system: consequently, they get to have a fundamental aspect of their belief system essentially presented as fact in public schools---via tax dollars, since it is not taught for free.
    Yeah, but Darwin's theories are also fundemental "tenets" of a basic science curriculum, so.. I guess it sucks for you that your beliefs aren't science based? I mean, I don't really get what your complaint is here. If your religious beliefs happened to coincide with scientific theory, then your religious beliefs would (indirectly) be taught in science classrooms.

    Leave a comment:

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