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Is it any wonder ?

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  • #16
    Re: Is it any wonder ?

    Originally posted by goober View Post
    Sorry, but this is a thoroughly unAmerican attitude.
    The country is doing what it has always done, it's exploring new ways, Americans don't cling to the old, we adopt the new, and all during this process, from the very beginning, there have been "conservatives" arguing that we had it right but now it's gone too far, that we are degenerating, not improving, that we have lost our way.

    We are in the process of shedding the mass mental illness known as Christianity, reclassifying it from "reality" to "mythology".
    That's a very health process, it will take a while, but the results will be well worth it.
    In other words you are hoping for a soulless country, one which really doesn't give a shit about anyone but yourselves.

    ?


    • #17
      Re: Is it any wonder ?

      Originally posted by goober View Post
      Sorry, but this is a thoroughly unAmerican attitude.
      The country is doing what it has always done, it's exploring new ways, Americans don't cling to the old, we adopt the new, and all during this process, from the very beginning, there have been "conservatives" arguing that we had it right but now it's gone too far, that we are degenerating, not improving, that we have lost our way.

      We are in the process of shedding the mass mental illness known as Christianity, reclassifying it from "reality" to "mythology".
      That's a very health process, it will take a while, but the results will be well worth it.
      Is it? There are certainly many Americans who agree with me. You obviously don't, and there are many like you who don't. Then again, I don't consider you or your ilk as having the final say in what is an American and what is an un-American attitude.

      We don't cling to the old, huh? We certainly hold a lot of "old" things as being very relevant. You know, things like the Constitution and the ideas what drove and informed its writing. Those are pretty old ideas. I agree that Americans embrace and adopt new things and that that is a good thing. However, Americans also remember and embrace their history and traditions. A civilization that has no roots, no sense of where it comes from or common history (you know, old stuff), will not survive as there is nothing holding it together.

      I agree with you that those roots are not, and that common history is not, Christianity. Is it a mental illness though? Of course not. The sooner that bullshit attitude is stamped out the better as it only breeds resentment and violence. It is, instead, just another part of human history.

      ?


      • #18
        Re: Is it any wonder ?

        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
        I don't know if worry is the right word. But I do think it is the will of god that mankind might solve these problems that have been an affliction upon humanity. But God only works through men, so any change will not come down from the heavens, but from a CHANGED mankind that finally does the will of this thing some call god.
        God doesn't "only" work through men ... He mostly works through men, although He is entirely capable of interceding any time He chooses and has done so throughout history (though probably not in ways our human minds demand or expect Him to intercede).

        Further, any change can (in that it is possible) come down from Heaven, but God has chosen man, as you point out, to carry out His will. Trouble is, most men are too wrapped up in their own temptations to know when God directs. God also does not direct by writing something on the wall or appearing or by interpersonal communications in most instances. Augustine's already said it as that article at the opening cited: Love, then do as you please." To my way of understanding, Augustine paraphrases Psalms 37:4-5:
        Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your Heart. Trust also in Him and He will bring it to pass.
        God wants our spirit. He wants a relationship with us. His promise in the Psalms (and elsewhere) is that if we delight ourselves in Him, it is HE who will place those desires in our hearts. The casual observer of such might not some disappointment that God doesn't promise to give us every red sportscar or every material thing we desire. But they simply do not understand that God promises to put those desires in our hearts in teh first place so it is not likely He will give us a desire for a red sportscar. IF we delight ourselves in Him, we can be assured that He has placed a desire in our hearts and by following that desire, we fulfill His will for us.

        ?


        • #19
          Re: Is it any wonder ?

          Got this in an e-mail and believe it to be in sync with Trips' opening post, so rushed in here to share it (and because I know how much you all enjoy e-mail spam). THAT's the kind of giver I am.

          Twas the month before Christmas

          When all through our land, Not a Christian was praying

          Nor taking a stand.

          Why the PC Police had taken away

          The reason for Christmas - no one could say.

          The children were told by their schools not to sing

          About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.

          It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say

          December 25th is just a ' Holiday'.

          Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit

          Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!

          CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-Pod

          Something was changing, something quite odd!

          Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa

          In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.

          As Targets were hanging their trees upside down

          At Lowe's the word Christmas - was nowhere to be found.

          At K-Mart and Staples and Penney's and Sears

          You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.

          Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty

          Are words that were used to intimidate me.

          Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen

          On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton!

          At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter

          To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.

          And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith

          Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace

          The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded

          The reason for the season, stopped before it started.

          So as you celebrate 'Winter Break' under your 'Dream Tree'

          Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.

          Choose your words carefully, choose what you say

          Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS,

          not Happy Holiday!

          Please, all Christians join together and

          wish everyone you meet

          MERRY CHRISTMAS

          Christ is The Reason' for the Christ-mas Season!

          If you agree please forward, if not, simply delete.

          (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ

          Got this in an e-mail and believe it to be in sync with Trips' opening post, so rushed in here to share it (and because I know how much you all enjoy e-mail spam). THAT's the kind of giver I am.

          Twas the month before Christmas

          When all through our land, Not a Christian was praying

          Nor taking a stand.

          Why the PC Police had taken away

          The reason for Christmas - no one could say.

          The children were told by their schools not to sing

          About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.

          It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say

          December 25th is just a ' Holiday'.

          Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit

          Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!

          CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-Pod

          Something was changing, something quite odd!

          Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa

          In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.

          As Targets were hanging their trees upside down

          At Lowe's the word Christmas - was nowhere to be found.

          At K-Mart and Staples and Penney's and Sears

          You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.

          Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty

          Are words that were used to intimidate me.

          Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen

          On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton!

          At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter

          To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.

          And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith

          Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace

          The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded

          The reason for the season, stopped before it started.

          So as you celebrate 'Winter Break' under your 'Dream Tree'

          Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.

          Choose your words carefully, choose what you say

          Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS,

          not Happy Holiday!

          Please, all Christians join together and

          wish everyone you meet

          MERRY CHRISTMAS

          Christ is The Reason' for the Christ-mas Season!

          If you agree please forward, if not, simply delete.

          ?


          • #20
            Re: Is it any wonder ?

            Originally posted by Good1 View Post
            God doesn't "only" work through men ... He mostly works through men, although He is entirely capable of interceding any time He chooses and has done so throughout history (though probably not in ways our human minds demand or expect Him to intercede).

            Further, any change can (in that it is possible) come down from Heaven, but God has chosen man, as you point out, to carry out His will. Trouble is, most men are too wrapped up in their own temptations to know when God directs. God also does not direct by writing something on the wall or appearing or by interpersonal communications in most instances. Augustine's already said it as that article at the opening cited: Love, then do as you please." To my way of understanding, Augustine paraphrases Psalms 37:4-5:


            God wants our spirit. He wants a relationship with us. His promise in the Psalms (and elsewhere) is that if we delight ourselves in Him, it is HE who will place those desires in our hearts. The casual observer of such might not some disappointment that God doesn't promise to give us every red sportscar or every material thing we desire. But they simply do not understand that God promises to put those desires in our hearts in teh first place so it is not likely He will give us a desire for a red sportscar. IF we delight ourselves in Him, we can be assured that He has placed a desire in our hearts and by following that desire, we fulfill His will for us.
            I feel that God has only worked through man. Oh, I know of the stories in which it appeared as if He didn't, but I don't believe those stories, as I see them as nothing more than myths. The ways of God are exactly the same today as in the times of the OT. That has not changed at all.

            If His Will is to be done on this earth, it is done through man. Man can live a self centered existence, which the most of us do, or man can give up the self centeredness, and when that happens, what is present with that self centeredness being dead ,is God. A man who is not driven by self centeredness, in which the ego no longer drives this bus, is then driven by something else. Some call this something else God, the Holy Spirit or some other name.

            What desires does a man have who has died unto his ego? Afterall, desire is a movement of this ego. The desire for a bigger house, a nicer car, a lovely wife and so on. Acquiring things, especially those things that gratify the sense of this ego is not something that comes from God. It comes from the existence of the ego.This is not to say a saved being does not find delight in material things, but he isn't driven to repeat the delight tomorrow. And he would never hurt other people in anyway in order to satiate this desire to repeat a joy. He would delight in joy, but he would not form his life around chasing it. He would enjoy things like one enjoys a beautiful sunset. Experience the joy and then let it go. But this isn't how we live our lives. Most of us live our lives chasing, pursuing all sorts of pleasures, and we will kick others to the side in that pursuit. And that is why the rich will not, or it will be almost impossible for those to enter into the Kingdom. To build great wealth and to hoard it, is the action of an ego. What use does a follower of christ have for great wealth? He has no use for it at all. It is not important.

            The truth is, if one actually delights in the Lord, the heart, the brain will no longer have the desires of the ego. If one tries to delight in the lord in order to obtain some material desire, he is not delighting in the lord. He is delighting in an image he has of the lord, and is as far removed from Him as the serial killer. We can play all sorts of these mind games with ourselves. And even go to our grave believing in them.

            There was once a famous holy man in India who took great pride in owning no worldly possessions, except for 2 loincloths. The king invited him to stay a few days with him, in order that the king might learn something from this holy man. So the king took the poor holy man into his treasury and told him he could take anything he wanted, in that room filled with gold and great jewels. The holy man turned him down, saying worldly possessions has no place in true spirituality. The king was amazed and started to self examine himself and his greed. The holy man was shown to his bedroom for the night. A few hours later people were running up and down the halls, screaming of a fire, for everyone to run for their lives. And of course the holy man ran for his life, naked. As he was leaving the castle he ran up beside the king who was also running for his life as well. Suddenly the holy man noticed he had left his two loinclothes in his bedroom and turned and ran back towards the fiery hell of fire. The king ran after him, caught him and asked him where was he going. You will burn up and die said the king. The holy man said his only worldly possession were in that bedroom and he could not leave them behind! The king has left behind his vast fortune, while the holy man could not even leave behind his two loinclothes. LOL.

            ?

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