Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules - You must read(Updated!)

DISCLAIMER

You agree to NOT use this site or its affiliated sites, services you may have access to as a result of being a member here (subscriber or otherwise), to post items (images, textual material, etc.) that are pornographic in nature, illegal in the United States and/or the country you reside in, support or encourage illegal activities (e.g., terrorism), advertise for your own personal profit, or send unsolicited messages (i.e. SPAM) to members or non-members.

AND

You agree that if any clause or component of this document is found to not be legally binding in a court of law of proper jurisdiction then the remainder of this document shall remain fully binding and in full force.

AND

You agree to NOT hold Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (makers of the forum software), uspoliticsonline.com, sites affiliated with uspoliticsonline.com, its administrators, its moderators, others associated with its operation, and its owners liable for any and all of the following (in whole or in part):
Personal insults/attacks by other members.
The content posted by other members, whether directed at you personally or a label/classification you associate with. This includes remarks you consider to be libelous or slanderous in any way.
Any financial or time loss due to your participation here or as a result of something you read at this site, including posts/PMs by other members and feature(s)/software available at the domain uspoliticsonline.com.
The dissemination of any personal information about you as a result of either your negligence (e.g. staying logged into a computer that others have access to) or willingness to post such information on a public and or private forum, private message or chat box. This includes using your real name or other details that could allow other members and/or the general public to determine your true identity. You are prohibited from using your real name on these forums, either as your username or in posts / PMs you write.

FORUM RULES, IN ADDITION TO THE DISCLAIMER

1. These rules apply to all sections of USPOL, including public and private forums, blogs, and visitor messages.

2. You cannot attack and/or personally insult someone. You cannot bait other forum members; this includes referring to posters by derogatory terms. Please, remain courteous and respectful to all forum members at all times. You agree to take responsibility for reporting such posts when you come across them. Please, use the ignore feature if need be. Any member who intentionally and continually posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, may be regarded as a troll by staff, and have their account suspended or banned.

3. You cannot harass (sexually or otherwise) other members. This includes malicious, slanderous, or defamatory comments. If you are not sure if something you write is inappropriate or not then don't say it. Err on the side of caution.

4. Copying and Pasting Articles, and Starting New Threads. You cannot simply cut and paste in posts or when starting threads. You MUST provide the identifying information (source, author, date, and URL). You must also offer some original thoughts along with the cut and paste. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts from the article. Excerpts really shouldnt be more then a paragraph or two. Furthermore, if you use images or other copyrighted material in your posts or signature you must have permission of the copyright holder unless you know for a fact that the image is in the public domain. In addition:
a. It must include the identifying information; e.g., where available, the author, the publication, the date, the URL.
b. The member must offer some context, including: How did you hear of this article? What is your opinion? Why is it important to you? Why should it be important to forum readers? The more context you provide, the more you assist others in gauging the excerpted information's significance.
c. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts, not the whole thing or even the majority of the whole thing to encourage people to read the entire article.

A violation of any of the above will result in the deletion or closing of the post or thread and could earn you a warning or suspension. If you have any questions concering any of the above please PM a moderator and we will be happy to clarify.

5. You cannot post the same thing in multiple forums. You must not open similar threads about the same or a similar topic. You cannot spam the board or send unsolicited messages to members via PM, email or any other means.

6. Do not post off-topic. You cannot derail a thread with off topic posts.

7. You cannot shout in posts. This includes posting in all CAPS, bold, lIkE tHiS, and extra large font. Posts should also be one color, although you may use an additional color for highlighting ideas you wish to address.

8. You may not alter quotes in a way that misrepresents what was originally said.

9. Multiple accounts are not allowed. If you are found to have more than one account all accounts will be permanently terminated.

10. You cannot have a user name, avatar, signature, or post images that are deliberately offensive. That includes the display of overly explicit or graphic images that may not be suitable for minors.

11. Signatures can not have more than three lines of text, with a font size no larger than "4", and no more than two font colors. Images in signatures cannot be any larger than 800 pixels wide x 200 pixels tall. Animated images are not allowed.

12. You are prohibited from taking any action to disturb the use of the services by others, distribute material that contains viruses, spyware or any other malicious code or harmful programs. This includes interfering with the working of the network, attempts to gain unauthorized access to a service or other computer systems that are part of the site or any other site, by use of the available services.

13. Discussion of moderation actions in public and/or private forums is not permitted. Moderation actions include warnings, suspensions and the editing or deletion of posts. If a member has a concern about a moderation action, he or she is invited to address it with the board staff via Private Message. This rule exists to protect the privacy of all posters with regards to disciplinary action. The moderator team will never publicly discuss the warnings/suspensions of any posters, and we ask that you return the favor, whether about yourself or another poster. Posting about moderation actions in the public forums constitutes a violation. You are free to discuss a moderation action via Private Message with the moderator involved, but you may not harass or abuse the moderators (as already specified in the forum rules). In practical terms, this means that once a moderator tells you his or her decision is final, no further PMs about that moderation action are permitted. If you have a concern about a moderation action, you are free to appeal to a Forum Administrator via Private Message. You may only discuss moderator activities or discussion of moderation with staff member if you chose to private message and are not under any circumstances allowed to use the PM function to forward or promote moderator discussion in regards to specific forum action, amongst other regular members. Administrators do reserve the right to read said PMs and may do so ; if that results in discovery of messaging between posters of such moderator discussion then it will lead to the same violation being received for discussing said moderator actions on the forum. If you receive a message to the effect of having been given moderator information, please report it to a member of staff. Engaging back in that discussion with the original violator will earn you just as stiff a sanction.

14. Do not ignore moderators or administrators. Do not repost something a moderator or administrator has deleted. You cannot have moderators or administrators on your ignore list.

15. Only post in English. Short passages in foreign languages may be acceptable if its use seems helpful for the ongoing discussion and when there is no indication of a potential violation of the forum rules. Always provide a translation into English in such cases. In case of doubt, the incident will be regarded as a violation, no matter of the actual meaning of the foreign language text.

16. The use of words/comments etc. written by other posters, without approval of the poster in your personal signature is not allowed nor are references, by name, to other posters allowed.

17. Please pay attention to announcements by Forum staff that will be found in the "Welcome! / News & Announcements" forum from time to time.

18. Use of "liar", "lies", "lying", etc. Accusing someone of being a "liar" or similar accusations towards other posters will generally be regarded as implying an insult and therewith as a violation of the forum rules. "I question the validity of your statement because...", "That's not the truth" or "you are wrong about that" are sufficient for any decent discussion if you want to disagree with somebody's assertions.

19. Thread opening restriction for new members. In order to control SPAM, new members must have moderator approval to start their own threads.

20. Thread titles must relate to the discussion within. Do not make misleading titles, or titles such as "Guess what..." or "You'll never believe this...". Members need to be able to identify the general gist of the thread via the title. Profanity in thread titles is not permitted.

21. Forum members are instructed to use forum tools and abilities for their intended purposes and no other. If members identify a forum glitch or weakness of any kind that allows you to see or do something you know you shouldn't, please report it. Being aware of any unintended access to the Forum and failing to take appropriate steps to notify staff of said access issues, will create a presumption of seeking to take advantage of the issue, will result in either account suspension, or banishment.

22. Any link to a site that contains graphic content, must contain a warning describing what a person might reasonably expect to view if they click on said link. No graphic pictures are to be posted on the Forum.

23. Threats or advocations of violence toward a public figure, or member of the Forum, will not be tolerated. Conversation about revolution or the like is not prohibited by this rule; directly calling for violence is, eg It's time to kill every <redacted> that voted for the bill, is not permitted.

24. Accounts with no posts will be deleted after 30 days. Inactive accounts with low post histories may be deleted after one year.

25. Private forums are something offered to members that decide to contribute directly to this site via donations. These donations help immensely in keeping this site up and running. Private forums are designed to allow the contributing member discuss whatever he/she wants to and to have the power to direct that discussion in whatever way he/she chose. They were not designed nor are they intended for simply talking trash about members that don't have access to the forum. While the targeted members cannot see the forum or the comments, it creates a negative atmosphere that really isn't necessary. If you want to totally rip apart ideas, ideologies, political parties, etc. that is fine. We simply ask that you don't use the private forums as a means to attack other members that aren't privy to such comments. It is difficult enough to have a political discussion forum because the discussion of politics is inherently heated as people are so passionate about their beliefs...the ones that take the time to come to such a site in the first place at least. The idea of private forums is so people of similar political persuasions can discuss whatever they want without fear of being attacked. Nonetheless, we hope that a certain level of maturity would foster itself within such an arena and not simply lend itself to a bashing forum.

Private Forums are governed by all of the above Forum rules. In addition:
  • Private forums that essentially become abandoned homes will be subject to deletion, donation or reorganization. Just like elsewhere in life, clubs sometimes lose their vitality and purpose for a myriad of reasons. If it becomes clear that a private forum has clearly lost its vitality and nobody is going to really use it anymore, owners are advised to consider whether to reuse the forum for something new and productive rather than let them linger or notify the Administration that the forum should be rearranged for other purposes, closed, merged with other compatible private forums, donated to others for new purposes, etc. Do not be concerned that your forum must be a membership and post count race with others to avoid falling under this policy; the question is whether your forum has actual vitality instead of being 'brain dead.'
  • Additionally, private forums may only be owned by subscribed members in the Platinum or Diamond categories.
  • Should the owner of a private forum be banned, quit USPOL or otherwise abandon the forum the PF will be transferred to another owner or closed.
  • Propriety of private forums. Administration staff will determine the desirability of a proposed private forum and enact any conditions upon it to ensure its purpose is productive.
  • Any and all instances of sharing accounts by allowing someone else to log in under their own account so they can see into private forums for which they are otherwise not permitted to access, will be deemed violation of the double account rule and all caught doing so will be permanently banned.
  • Relaying private forum posts and information to other posters who are not members of the particular private forum for any negative or destructive purpose (eg mean-spirited gossip, fueling interpersonal disputes, etc), is not permitted, and will constitute a violation of the Forum rules.
  • For purposes of monitoring USPOL Terms of Service Administrative staff (not Moderators) will have access to Private Forums.
  • All Private Forums must have at least one active Administrator as a member for purposes of handling issues which cannot be addressed through moderation permissions.
  • Discussion of moderation activities is prohibited on the open site and is likewise prohibited in Private Forums.

26. The administrators and moderators reserve the right to edit and/or delete a post,and/or close a thread, and/or delete a thread at any time if of the opinion that the post is too obscene, inappropriate, or the discussion has run its course.

27. 'Back seat moderating' is not allowed. If you take issue with another poster's contribution to the forum, you're welcome to report any posts you think are out of line, but you should not bring it up publicly within the forum.

28. Images in posts (whether embedded or hot linked) must be reasonable in size. 800x800 should be considered a good rule of thumb. Excessively large images make it difficult for users on mobile devices to load pages. If necessary please simply link to very large images using the URL tags. In addition, the following images are not permitted (including, but not limited to pages with images or videos containing):
  • Strategically covered nudity
  • Sheer or see-through clothing
  • Lewd or provocative poses
  • Close-ups of breasts, buttocks, or crotches

29. Any solicitation or communication involving sports betting / gambling / online casinos / bookies and or internet based card or slot machine systems or sites will lead to all said content being physically removed from the site and server, and will lead to any and or all parties involved being permanently removed and banned from the site to the farthest extent possible. This includes any links to any form of bookmaker, casino, any type of game or match or event where money transfers on the outcome or link of any sort to wire act violations and or anything in violation of either the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, or the Federal wire Act. This applies not only to the open forum but all and or any chat rooms, articles, private messages and or private forums. All content that violates this rule will be deleted, without notice.

CONSEQUENCES

Failure to comply with any of the forum rules may result in your posts being edited or deleted and/or your account being temporarily or permanently banned from the forums. U.S. Politics Online uses a warning system that generates an automated Private Message to members when they are in violation of Forum rules. The decision to issue a warning is left to the discretion of the moderator or administrator handling the violation. If a member does not agree with an action taken by a moderator, they can appeal to an administrator after seeking clarification from the moderator who issued the warning/infraction and appealing to them in the first instance. Members MAY NOT harass a moderator or administrator by sending excessive PMs when they are discussing an appeal.

Violations are assigned a point value. Points are valid for 30 days. When a members earns 10 points, their account will be automatically suspended: five (5) days for a first suspension; ten (10) days for a second suspension; and twenty (20) days for a third suspension. If a member incurs an additional 10 points after having served three periods of suspension, then they will be permanently banned from the Forum.

Point values are as follows:
Zero (0) points Warning
Two (2) points - Minor infraction / Non post infraction (minor) / Off topic posts / spamming
Four (4) points - Academic dishonesty / Baiting / Discussing moderator or administrator actions / Implying an insult / Minor insults / Moderate infraction / Non-post infraction (moderate) / Thread dumping
Six (6) points - Direct insult at another member / major infraction / Non-post infraction (major)
Ten (10) points - Act of criminality, or advocating thereof

The administrators and moderators also bear the right to issue warnings, temporarily suspend or ban posters for continued trolling or other serious misconduct (eg. professional spamming) even if the poster has not yet reached the maximum warning points or suspensions level. Other options if the above consequences do not seem adequate include placing the member in a moderation queue, which means all posts will have to be approved before they are posted to the board.

PRIVACY POLICY

All information obtained by the end user via the registration process is for internal purposes only and will not be sold to or shared with any third parties. However, if the end user participates in illegal activities and a court of proper jurisdiction orders U.S. Politics Online to release certain information about said user then we will act according to the law. Furthermore, no information will be released on threat of a lawsuit, attempted or actual intimidation, or due to any other reason except as notated in the first sentence of this paragraph. Nonetheless, keep in mind that the information we do have is very limited and generally only consists of the IP address a member uses.

SUBSCRIPTIONS

U.S. Politics Online offers several subscription plans to help cover the operational costs of the site. As a thank you for your donation, you will receive special added benefits meant to enhance your U.S. Politics Online experience. Plans vary in price, starting at only $0.05/day, and benefits vary with the price. Benefits include ability to go straight to new posts, to search the forum, larger avatar, private forums, invisible mode, photo gallery, email, web hosting, and no advertisement banners. Please, click here for more details.
See more
See less

Homosexuality and the Church...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Homosexuality and the Church...

    I'm hoping that thread title grabbed your attention (if not your interest):

    Most here know I argue pretty vehemently agaisnt homosexuality: It is my understanding that God recognizes that behavior as sin, but no greater nor lesser sin than any other behavior that separates us from Him. I recognize that most homosexuals believe the church to, at best, not want them or at worst actively fight them and I am also very well aware that most in the homosexual community do not see any distinction between arguing against homosexuality and arguing against homosexuals, personally.

    The fact is, God urges us to resist ALL sin, not just homosexuality, and if we resist all "other" sins like we do homosexuality, then the church becomes just a building that is useless because no sinner would ever dare darken our doorstep.

    My routine every day (or most every day) is to read a number of publications on a broad range of topics, one of which is churchleaders.com, which I read this morning.

    The article that caught my eye which, I assume, was finely tuned by the Holy Spirit, was Homosexuality and the Church: Is there a Better Way, written, as it turned out, by a woman who struggled with homosexuality and who was rejected by the church she loved.

    I was sucked into the article by the following paragraph, which I know to be accurate:
    Because weve taken the comfortable position of neglect for so long, we do not have deep, well-constructed responses to this issue when it becomes a reality in our lives. Therefore, for the many whose same-sex attraction is unwanted, there is an extreme shortage of environments where they feel comfortable discussing their struggle.

    With every passing battle in the culture war, God is calling the Church out of our indifference.

    He is calling us out of our simplified stances against homosexuality, which currently primarily express themselves through political viewpoints, satirical sidebars about Adam and Steve in sermons or speaking the truth in love with no real intent to invest in a person after the truth is spoken. These things are not helpful, and what weve been doing so far is only costing us relationship with the people Jesus asked us to love. We are not increasing the Kingdom.
    If you read the entire article, I would welcome your comments, suggestions, and even criticisms, whether or not you consider yourself a "Christian."

  • #2
    Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

    It's a good article. The Christian church has phenomenally failed itself, God, and society when it comes to dealing with homosexuality.

    ?


    • #3
      Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

      Originally posted by Dilettante View Post
      It's a good article. The Christian church has phenomenally failed itself, God, and society when it comes to dealing with homosexuality.
      I agree. What's more, I think they KNOW it (even if only spiritually) but are only just now starting to work out of it...

      ?


      • #4
        Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

        Originally posted by Good1 View Post
        It is my understanding that God recognizes that behavior as sin, but no greater nor lesser sin than any other behavior that separates us from Him.
        I just wanted to point out that nowhere in The Bible is homosexuality referred to as a sin; it is referred to as an abomination, in the same section as eating shellfish is an abomination. I've never understood the Church's fascination with homosexuality, considering that the 10 commandments highlight the most important sins, and in modern society the Church apparently accepts adultery, which IS a sin.

        ?


        • #5
          Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

          Originally posted by noahath View Post
          I just wanted to point out that nowhere in The Bible is homosexuality referred to as a sin; it is referred to as an abomination, in the same section as eating shellfish is an abomination. I've never understood the Church's fascination with homosexuality, considering that the 10 commandments highlight the most important sins, and in modern society the Church apparently accepts adultery, which IS a sin.
          No it doesn't.

          ?


          • #6
            Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

            Originally posted by noahath View Post
            I just wanted to point out that nowhere in The Bible is homosexuality referred to as a sin; it is referred to as an abomination, in the same section as eating shellfish is an abomination. I've never understood the Church's fascination with homosexuality, considering that the 10 commandments highlight the most important sins, and in modern society the Church apparently accepts adultery, which IS a sin.
            What I said, Noah, is that I believe such behavior to be sin.

            I believe it because I understand, through the pages of the Bible, God's perspective on our chosen behaviors that separate us from Him. That is all that sin is. It may well be your perception that the church accepts sin like adultery, and I do not doubt you would have good reason, but God does not accept adultery or any other sin, including homosexuality, because sin separates us from Him.

            God, however, does not place any one sin above or below other sins. They all separate us from him, whether pride, false teaching, adultery, or any others too numerous to mention here. He hates all of it and, in fact, had to come down here, live a righteous life, and die on the cross JUST SO those of us who desire, can have any hope of salvation from our sins... Ad fellowship with Him, which is all He wants from us.

            thank you for your insight.

            ?


            • #7
              Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

              Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
              No it doesn't.
              And yet I hear the Pope giving several speeches a year where he talks against the ills of homosexuality, but I am yet to hear him once talk about the ills of adultery. I also don't see any of the other Christian movements decreasing the amount of time they spend railing against homosexuality in order to make just as much social noise against adultery. The only evidence I can go by is what I see and hear every day.

              ?


              • #8
                Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                What I said, Noah, is that I believe such behavior to be sin.

                I believe it because I understand, through the pages of the Bible, God's perspective on our chosen behaviors that separate us from Him. That is all that sin is. It may well be your perception that the church accepts sin like adultery, and I do not doubt you would have good reason, but God does not accept adultery or any other sin, including homosexuality, because sin separates us from Him.

                God, however, does not place any one sin above or below other sins. They all separate us from him, whether pride, false teaching, adultery, or any others too numerous to mention here. He hates all of it and, in fact, had to come down here, live a righteous life, and die on the cross JUST SO those of us who desire, can have any hope of salvation from our sins... Ad fellowship with Him, which is all He wants from us.

                thank you for your insight.
                I think what many people over look is, it is not being a homosexual which is sinful. It is sex outside of the traditional marriage of a man and a woman which is considered sinful. I had a good friend from childhood who was gay. Everyone knew he was gay, not because he was a militant gay like many are, but because he was and didn't deny it. But he took a vow of celibacy, went through medical school and practices medicine until he died in an accident. He was a faithful Christian and took the sacraments regularly. Was he perfect? Of course not, none of us are, but he was a good man and from him I learned to respect gays like any other person, by the way they live.

                ?


                • #9
                  Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                  Originally posted by noahath View Post
                  And yet I hear the Pope giving several speeches a year where he talks against the ills of homosexuality, but I am yet to hear him once talk about the ills of adultery. I also don't see any of the other Christian movements decreasing the amount of time they spend railing against homosexuality in order to make just as much social noise against adultery. The only evidence I can go by is what I see and hear every day.
                  It is more about which issue causes inclusion and which causes exclusion. In a way it is about severity but even that is not quite the right word to use. When it comes to adultery there seems to be plenty of ways make amends even with the church taking the stand of being against. The further we go the more mild the response from the church is on adultery it seems. But when it comes to homosexuality you have to go to another level to gain that level of amends, probably going through some sort of "education" back to heterosexual. Now that is not true at every church, but if you looked at the major organized religions it is more likely to run into. The Bachmann's come to mind.

                  Besides, if the church got tough on those that commit adultery they will have a tough time finding politicians to represent them in the fight against homosexuality.

                  ?


                  • #10
                    Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                    Originally posted by noahath View Post
                    And yet I hear the Pope giving several speeches a year where he talks against the ills of homosexuality, but I am yet to hear him once talk about the ills of adultery. I also don't see any of the other Christian movements decreasing the amount of time they spend railing against homosexuality in order to make just as much social noise against adultery. The only evidence I can go by is what I see and hear every day.
                    Part of that is simply that speaking out about the sinfulness of adultery doesn't make the news. But part of it is also certainly a terrible over-emphasis on one particular sin, and for that the church is responsible. From a spiritual standpoint, I would rather be gay than greedy, lustful, proud or cruel.

                    ?


                    • #11
                      Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                      Originally posted by CharlesD View Post
                      I think what many people over look is, it is not being a homosexual which is sinful. It is sex outside of the traditional marriage of a man and a woman which is considered sinful. I had a good friend from childhood who was gay. Everyone knew he was gay, not because he was a militant gay like many are, but because he was and didn't deny it. But he took a vow of celibacy, went through medical school and practices medicine until he died in an accident. He was a faithful Christian and took the sacraments regularly. Was he perfect? Of course not, none of us are, but he was a good man and from him I learned to respect gays like any other person, by the way they live.
                      Agreed. For my part as a member of the body of believers, it does take some time and what I suspect is Divine attitude adjustment (the Divine adjusting MY attitude) to acknowledge that people like your friend exist: A person can be a Christian and homosexual. Like you say, the temptation is not sin: It's giving into the temptation that is sin and, to coin a phrase, who amongst us is without sin!

                      Originally posted by noahath View Post
                      And yet I hear the Pope giving several speeches a year where he talks against the ills of homosexuality, but I am yet to hear him once talk about the ills of adultery. I also don't see any of the other Christian movements decreasing the amount of time they spend railing against homosexuality in order to make just as much social noise against adultery. The only evidence I can go by is what I see and hear every day.
                      I understand we can only go by what we see and hear.

                      Could it be you don't see or hear the Pope speaking out against "other" sins because those don't make the nightly news? I mean, let's face it, homosexuality is an issue that draws passion from people and the reporting media LOVES to fan those flames. I also don't hear much about Adulterous Nation parading down "Main Street" in Disneyland (although I'm pretty sure the media WOULD report that), or hear about an election in Massachussets where they approved a statewide measure to allow adulterous 2nd marriages. Seems to me the simple and observable fact is that there are homosexuals who are demanding change or, put another way, who are demanding that Americans accept their "sin" (if you will, and from my perspective) and there are not so many adulterers or liars (etc.) doing so.

                      Could those be reasons we don't hear the Pope advocating the ills of those sins?

                      ?


                      • #12
                        Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                        Perhaps it is just a matter of numbers when it comes to which sin results in isolation from the church and which are sort of wrong but you can still come to church. If those that commit adultery are kicked out of the church you could assume it would be a bigger bite of the congregation than those that are homosexual. Any truth to the question? I mean we really are talking about division here when you compare the church position on homosexuality to that of adultery.

                        ?


                        • #13
                          Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                          Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                          Perhaps it is just a matter of numbers when it comes to which sin results in isolation from the church and which are sort of wrong but you can still come to church. If those that commit adultery are kicked out of the church you could assume it would be a bigger bite of the congregation than those that are homosexual. Any truth to the question? I mean we really are talking about division here when you compare the church position on homosexuality to that of adultery.
                          I'm not Catholic and do not speak for the Catholic church (about which most of you seem to think when someone uses the phrase "the church"), but no, I don't think that holds water.

                          From what I understand, any sinner (including both homosexuals and adulterers) can stay in the Catholic church if they're willing to confess and repent. My observation (not a criticism of the church, but of individuals in the church) has been that there is no tally sheet kept whereby a priest can know if someone who repented last month, is back again to confess and repent this month for the same sin...

                          In the church-at-large (including more than just the Catholic church), confession and repentance is not so much a weekly obligation as it is a maintenance of the relationship between [me] and God. I do not, personally, see the need to invoke the services of a priest to confess my sins and repent of them, but that's not to say it's wrong to do so (just not my preference). Again, ANY sinner can enter into a relationship with God and, in fact, since no one is without sin, our inability to establish our own righteousness before Him is the very basis of our faith in the substitutionary death of Christ on the Cross to accomplish that for us.

                          Now, as to specific churches, if someone is quite earnest about confessing and repenting, but really does slip back into old habits (just as the Apostle Paul told us we would), but their chosen church, as you say, kicks them out anyway, I suggest they try another church. I remember a certain author of a children's discipline program who was called on the carpet for HIS sins related to claims about how effective his program was and the claims he made about his professional and academic training that turned out to be false (or unverifiable). He didn't want to repent so rather than put up with the discipline of that non-denominational church, he simple moved to a different church. THAT is not what I'm talking about here: We're not to move from church to church looking for some congregation that will approve of our sin. All God wants is a relationship with us, and He has provided us (in Christ) the ONLY way we can fellowship with Him.

                          It's up to us whether or not our chosen sin is most important or a relationship with our Creator is more important. Completely up to us. It is not important which church we attend or that we attend a church at all: MORE important is that we have fellowship with God... regardless of what the rules are that some religious institution or building puts on us.

                          ?


                          • #14
                            Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                            In regards to the church(and by this I mean all churches) I shall just repeat what the Creator said.

                            "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."

                            There, He settled it. At least for us humans.

                            ?


                            • #15
                              Re: Homosexuality and the Church...

                              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                              In regards to the church(and by this I mean all churches) I shall just repeat what the Creator said.

                              "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."

                              There, He settled it. At least for us humans.
                              That is overly simplistic, selectively used, argumentative anyway, and generally ignored by most including "the church." Whatever "he" settled is not being followed all that well. Then again neither is turn the other cheek...

                              ?

                              Working...
                              X