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New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

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  • New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

    I ran across this recently and thought it worthy of talking about, since we have an evangelical or so here as well as a Catholic, and of course plenty of non believers, in the religious sense. And even some atheists who of course probably couldn't care less about the subject. But, since I agree with Jefferson, and the guy who is now compiling such a New Testament, removing the ludicrous idea of human sacrifice and its magic blood, as being the vessel of salvation, it rings true to me. And since I have thought since the 1970s that Paul was a corrupter of the Teachings, and the role of Christ in salvation, this Jeffersonian New Testament is coming at a good time, and perhaps will open dialogue and debate within certain religious circles. Here... a little bit about the project...

    http://www.iamnck.com/#

    Jeffersonian Tesatament of Jesus And His Apostles Under Development

    Parabiblical scholar and researcher Jeffrey Daugherty is currently compiling a new presentation of the New Testament writings entitled The Jeffersonian Testament of Jesus And His Apostles. This is being offered as a literal English rendering, in chronological order, striving to do what Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States, admonished us to do in his comments on the subject of Jesus and the New Testament. To that end all Pauline writings have been omitted. Also identified to his satisfaction and omitted, are, in Jeffersonian terms, the “ignorance, absurdity, untruth, charlatanism, and imposture” of the New Testament as currently presented, along with the “defective and doubtful”, the “tricks” and those portions that proceeded from “very inferior minds” in the Gospels. What seemed to be a daunting task at first is now, as the President predicted, proving remarkably easy. The goal is to shovel away what Jefferso called the “dunghill” so that the remaining “diamonds” as he put it, might shine forth. The presentation of the books in order of their original publication is insisted upon to help the reader better understand the revelation, flow and development of ideas and doctrine as they were received in the first century. The literal English rendering is in attempt to offer the most unbiased and accurate account of the intent of the original writers in the most easily understood format. It is our hope that this volume will bring new understanding and appreciation of the New Testament scriptures to the inquiring mind. At the very least it is offered in hopes that it will stimulate questions and no little debate amongst those who read it—and even those that just hear about it. It is our belief that passionate study, discussion and debate throw open the curtains of indoctrination and allow the rays of enlightenment to shine into previously dark places
    I like what Thomas Jefferson said, to shovel away at the dung hill so that diamonds might be seen. For many decades I have believed Paul, who was not one of the followers of Christ had the intent to corrupt the Teachings, by keeping the tradition of the sacrifice of animals on the day of atonement intact, but replacing the animals with a human form, in which God was dwelling. That is by killing a human body that contained the spirit of God, that contained God, that this would magically save mankind from sin. And allow them to live forever in heaven. That never made a bit of sense to me, as it belongs in a fairy tale. What made sense came directly from the Teaching that came to us via the human being Jesus, in which God had manifested so that man should be TOLD of the way of salvation. That is, the way of enlightenment is found in the Teachings themselves, and not in magic blood shed on that cross.

    If the way is found in the Teachings, then in those teachings, there is no place for the hierarchy of the men who later formed the church, which just happens to be something the empire of rome could use as a state religion. Paul is the person who transforms a simple religion, which needs no authority of man present, into one that needs many men in powerful positions present. Created a job for them, as the jewish priests and Pharisees had jobs.

    How is it that a man called Paul, who was not an apostle of Christ, while Christ walked about teaching, how is it that Paul is the main authority of Christianity? Paul's letters take up much of the NT. And the only proof we have that Paul was legit, is his own story of being struck blind, which any man could have made up. No tv back then, nor cell cams.

    The guy who is compiling this NT, has a book out that paints Paul as an antichrist, the corrupter of the Teachings, and of the role of Christ in salvation. Since I thought this was the case decades ago, after reading the bible twice, I am in agreement with this contention. To me, it is obvious, self evident. And it would then explain how the Church could commit so much evil in its history. For a genuine Church would not have committed evil, sinned, breaking its own laws, the 10 Commandments.

    It has been my feeling for a very long time that what we have is a Pauline Christianity, and not the Christianity of Christ, which would be based, grounded, upon the revelatory Teachings that came from the mouth of God, via a human body called Jesus. I believe all of the importance of Christ resides in His Teachings, and that some of His Teachings, have been sorted out by the men who decided what to include in the NT and what not to include. Like the Gospel of Thomas, which is nothing but the Teachings, pure, without distraction. One can easily see how these Teachings could not be included, for it allows no place for the heiarchy of men, who would later compose the church that was created. And this would have been anathema to those that demanded position in such a church. The tradition of no hierarchy remains to this very day in the Quakers, so its not like it has not been considered and practiced. Just not in the majority of churches.

    Genuine Christianity, based upon the Teachings, needs no human leaders, for there is no place for another between me and the Creator, especially when it comes to salvation, which involved a Kingdom that Christ said resides within man, not external to man. And Paul helped to insure that this sort of belief system would not be the order of the day. Which basically does make him an antichrist, but not in the sense as seen in Revelations, but a more down to earth sense, a believable sense.
    Last edited by Blue Doggy; 04-24-2014, 08:40 AM.

  • #2
    Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

    So ... you guys disparage the ORIGINALS of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John because, amongst other reasons, you claim they are unreliable having been written 30 - 90 years after Jesus, the Christ, walked the earth.

    You're going to accept a version written, then, by a guy 1800 years after Jesus walked the earth?

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

      Every version modern man has read in a language we speak has been an edited unoriginal version, why not another one?
      Last edited by JDJarvis; 04-24-2014, 10:30 AM.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

        You do realize that you destroy everything Christ said about repentance and redemption when you say Paul couldn't do it, right?

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

          Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
          Every version modern man has read in a language we speak has been an edited unoriginal version, why not another one?
          Because "another" has no basis in the original languages so that "another" translation won't have accurate translations. Victor Paul Weirwille (sorry if I massacred the spelling) did this same kind of thing: UN-translated the New Testament back into (contemporary) greek and hebrew, then re-translated it to fit his own agenda which he, then, used to create his own religion.

          So I get that, from your (plural) perspective, there was no "God" involved in any of it... but the rest of us realize there was.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

            Why wouldn't God be involved this time around, is God out of the Bible business?
            Is The Bible the literal word of God only when it's pre-modern?

            I'm not in the whole Paul is the antichrist set but a lot of folks certainly seem to have missed a whole lot of what Christ was talking about in their practices and worship. The New Testament is a work decided by a comitee of mortal men from a foreign land and foreign time and it's just slightly possible they permitted their aggendas to bend the teachings of Christ.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
              Why wouldn't God be involved this time around, is God out of the Bible business?
              Is The Bible the literal word of God only when it's pre-modern?

              I'm not in the whole Paul is the antichrist set but a lot of folks certainly seem to have missed a whole lot of what Christ was talking about in their practices and worship. The New Testament is a work decided by a comitee of mortal men from a foreign land and foreign time and it's just slightly possible they permitted their aggendas to bend the teachings of Christ.
              He's a witch He's a witch! Burn the witch burn the witch!

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                Originally posted by reality View Post
                He's a witch He's a witch! Burn the witch burn the witch!
                No, but my exwife was.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                  Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                  No, but my exwife was.
                  Weighted as much as a duck did she?! The FIEND!

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                    Originally posted by reality View Post
                    Weighted as much as a duck did she?! The FIEND!
                    Several ducks. She was even in a production of Godspell using over earnest musical theater to corroupt the masses.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                      Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                      Several ducks. She was even in a production of Godspell using over earnest musical theater to corroupt the masses.
                      *shudders* the horrors of musical theatre

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                        I'd like to see mr Daugherty try. I'm sure God will come in shortly to set things straight.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                          Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                          Because "another" has no basis in the original languages so that "another" translation won't have accurate translations. Victor Paul Weirwille (sorry if I massacred the spelling) did this same kind of thing: UN-translated the New Testament back into (contemporary) greek and hebrew, then re-translated it to fit his own agenda which he, then, used to create his own religion.

                          So I get that, from your (plural) perspective, there was no "God" involved in any of it... but the rest of us realize there was.
                          Well, was it not The New Testament that was written to create a new religion? And then, rewritten again to satify James Stuart's agenda for Northern Ireland?

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                            Originally posted by jet57 View Post
                            Well, was it not The New Testament that was written to create a new religion? And then, rewritten again to satisfy James Stuart's agenda for Northern Ireland?
                            Originally posted by Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:17 KJV
                            17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
                            18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
                            Its all the same faith, and everything that occurred prior to Christ was to prepare a people to recognize His mission when it occurred, and everything that has occurred since is to remind people of it.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #15
                              Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                              Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                              Because "another" has no basis in the original languages so that "another" translation won't have accurate translations. Victor Paul Weirwille (sorry if I massacred the spelling) did this same kind of thing: UN-translated the New Testament back into (contemporary) greek and hebrew, then re-translated it to fit his own agenda which he, then, used to create his own religion.

                              So I get that, from your (plural) perspective, there was no "God" involved in any of it... but the rest of us realize there was.
                              I'm somewhat familiar with Victor Paul Wierwille, I read one or two of his books. What I liked about what I read is he taught & encouraged folks to learn how to use a Concordance when studying the Bible works. It's easy enough to do & can shed much light on the meanings of the words used. Even today, in modern day language translation, if one is simply making a direct translation from French to English or from English to German or whatever, there are choices to be made when translating. One word in the first language does not always & absolutely have only one possible choice of word (meaning) in the second language.

                              The original language of the Bible was most likely, in most cases, Aramaic. That language was translated into another, then another, then another. ... .

                              A good Concordance will also guide the user to pay attention to cultural context, common idioms used, the contextual timeframe, et cetera.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?

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