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New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

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  • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

    Originally posted by Good1 View Post
    The paint you think I used (or, rather, that you SAY I used ... I don't think you really believe that at all) is invisible paint. That is not (as I've shown you several times) what I said.

    You're getting all confused over my appropriate use of the language... and I can't help you there.
    Keep telling yourself that buddy

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    • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

      Originally posted by reality View Post
      Keep telling yourself that buddy
      No need.

      YOU on the other hand, appear to have quite a need for understanding the written word.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

        Originally posted by Good1 View Post
        No need.

        YOU on the other hand, appear to have quite a need for understanding the written word.
        Says the guy who doesn't know what "even with X it is possible that Y" means as it regards X and the employment of same.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

          Originally posted by reality View Post
          Says the guy who doesn't know what "even with X it is possible that Y" means as it regards X and the employment of same.
          says the guy who cannot understand the simplest sentence construct, even after multiple explanations and at least one clarification.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

            Originally posted by Good1 View Post
            says the guy who cannot understand the simplest sentence construct, even after multiple explanations and at least one clarification.
            Why yes I do disregard your backpeddling

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            • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

              Originally posted by reality View Post
              Why yes I do disregard your backpeddling
              ...said the guy who apparently doesn't realize "backpedalling" doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                ...said the guy who apparently doesn't realize "backpedalling" doesn't mean what he thinks it means.
                Anything you need to tell yourself to feel better G. You wanna hug it out?

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                • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                  Originally posted by reality View Post
                  Anything you need to tell yourself to feel better G. You wanna hug it out?
                  I'm done. You have nothing new and can't support (or even understand) anything you've already thrown up [sic].
                  Since you have to have the last word, go for it: I won't be back for this tired rhetoric.

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                  • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                    Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                    Gee, what a surprise response.





                    As I want to Claim? Well, that is just flat-out false.

                    I have pointed out your belief system is very closely related to the Gnostics which I also pointed out was rejected by the various councils of the Church as early as 325 AD: FAR from being "new," your steadfast insistence to replace God's word with other fraudulent writings is nearly as old as Christianity, itself.


                    AGAIN, man cannot do that on his own. It is God who brings a man to repentance. Your continuing to leave God out of the equation (as you chronically do) speaks volumes.


                    You're wrong: About your alleged "silence" and about my spiritual experience (no surprise there, either).

                    I understand you have to push me into your little pre-formed box but your insistence on doing so also shows you do not remain silent as you claim.
                    You keep maintaining that I am leaving God out of the equation. Which means, you really have not read what I have stated, in the past when I contradicted your incorrect observation.

                    I am not leaving Him out at all. How many times must I say that "self effort" is useless? Now follow me here, if self effort is useless, that "whosoever shall save his soul shall lose it" then what is causing the transformation of consciousness I have always referred to? If self will, self effort cannot do anything in regards to salvation, then that leaves what? How about God?

                    Yet you seem to negate that man must do something in regards to his salvation. When Christ said to repent, that involves an action of the mind of man. For repenting isn't feeling guilty for your personal sins against others, but it is a demand to change your mind. What is the mind? What? How about consciousness?

                    So, change your mind, but that is impossible, for the ego to change itself. If it tries, its just playing games. But in order for God to do the changing, you must at least TRY to repent, change your mind, or otherwise nothing would ever happen. There has to be that intent. If there is no intent, then God never has the chance to change your consciousness so that you are clean enough to enter into His Realm.

                    So please, no more accusations based upon you not reading what I state. It is getting a bit absurd. Put words into your own mouth, not mine.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                      I would ask Good1 a very simple question. Why did Christ spend so much time teaching? When if his death on the cross saves humanity of sin, what was the need of the teaching? Why did He point out what he did in regards to the priests and the practice of Judaism? Why did he give the Sermon on the Mount, where he told people not to worry about tomorrow, to not worry about what to eat, what to wear? Why did he tell people to deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow Him? He had not yet died, so his blood might wash man clean of sin. Why did He not just tell the people to wait until he was murdered, and then all things would be taken care of, in regards to their salvation?

                      He didn't tell them to wait because the Truth in the Teachings was of the greatest importance. Yet if one lived up to the standards of the Teaching, there is no need for magic blood, unless blood signifies the death that must happen in the each of us, in regards to the ego which is what separated man from God in the first place.

                      Which of course is the real meaning of this blood, of the death. It is a physical event, that illustrates what must occur in the consciousness of man in order to be saved. A reversal of the event that transpired in eden, in which the ego of man was born, from eating of the tree of knowledge. Yet the creation of the ego in eden is a part of the grand scheme of things, it was absolutely necessary. And the fall of man occurred because it had to occur. It was planned. By God. For recovering that which has been lost, whether the Prodigal Son, or of a different sort of human consciousness, makes the angels in heaven rejoice. What was lost is now found.

                      If man had remained in the non ego state, man would have never known of his own existence. The only way man can be consciously aware of God, is for the ego to exist, and then for that ego to be transcended. The man who is really saved can recollect his inner hell prior to being saved, and is deeply aware of this great gift from God. And that is how this works. Instead you have accepted fairy tales. Which can change no man, but tend to allow him to commit great evil, while thinking he is doing the correct thing. That is the scourge of Christianity, as we know Christianity.

                      I reject this fairy tale religion for it is incorrect, and as all incorrect things, the incorrectness is proven by what came from the religion based upon fairy tales instead of actuality. One would have to be blind in order not to see the obvious. Blinded by a belief system that has not changed man deeply, fundamentally, but which offers fire insurance for the ego, which is the problem to begin with. We, you, are insuring something that arose in eden and which separated man from God in the first place. You are insuring, for psychological security, the very thing that must be denied, so that something else in man can manifest.
                      Last edited by Blue Doggy; 05-03-2014, 08:22 AM.

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                      • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                        To bring this back to the topic, and this is a question for Good1, if he will indulge me...

                        The fact is, Paul with one exception is a self proclaimed apostle, and in the NT we see that the original apostles never accepted him. Far too easy for someone back then to self proclaim something like this, and invent stories that look magical in order to impress potential believers in what is claimed. Yet the apostles, the ones who walked and were taught by Christ Himself, never accepted Paul, yet our Christianity today is grounded in Paul and his interpretation of Christ.

                        Now the one place in the NT that does mention Paul is in Revelations, when the speaker is talking to the 7 Churches. Paul established the Ephesian church, and John in Revelations is basically saying that Paul was a false apostle.

                        Pauline Christianity is a religion that uses human fear, in order to control. So, what a nice fit with the Roman Empire. Purely coincidental? Hardly for any State religion has to mesh and be in harmony with the empire who embraces it, or a corruption of it.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Re: New Testament...Jefferson's dunghill...

                          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                          I would ask Good1 a very simple question. Why did Christ spend so much time teaching? When if his death on the cross saves humanity of sin, what was the need of the teaching? Why did He point out what he did in regards to the priests and the practice of Judaism? Why did he give the Sermon on the Mount, where he told people not to worry about tomorrow, to not worry about what to eat, what to wear? Why did he tell people to deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow Him? He had not yet died, so his blood might wash man clean of sin. Why did He not just tell the people to wait until he was murdered, and then all things would be taken care of, in regards to their salvation?
                          Because dying for the sin of man was only one purpose for His coming... a grand purpose ... probably THE GREATEST purpose, to be sure ... but still only one.

                          Another purpose was to show us the way and another purpose was to charge those who followed Him to make disciples of all the world (in other words, spread His words).

                          The reason I keep saying you're leaving God out of it is, you reject God's sacrifice on the Cross as necessary for Salvation. You leave God out of the salvation equation because, as you have plainly said, there is something Man has to do towards his salvation. Also because the god you adhere to, and the "gospel" you preach in here is nothing more or less than that ancient Arian Heresy that the church rejected in 325 AD at the Nicene council. I realize you don't like the church, but despite your dislike, the Gospel they preach is contrary to the beliefs you preach. That makes you wrong. You don't want to read the Bible: FINE, don't read it, but you then give up the right to come in here telling those of us who study it what it "really" says or which parts we "should" accept and which we "should" reject. The fact you, yourself, have proclaimed in here several times is, you have only read the Bible once or twice, many many years ago so you simply do not know what it says or how it says it. The bottom line, however, is you will never get me to accept the gnosticism you preach: THAT, moreso than your flawed rhetoric about salvation being achievable by man alone, is what rejects God's role in our lives and limits salvation to only the erudite few who catch on to the secret.

                          Jesus came to show us the way to God and, then, HE paid the price to settle the claim that was keeping us from Him. God cannot (by His own choice) look upon sin. And you (me, everyone) are steeped in inescapable sin until you are cleansed by the sacrifice of Christ.

                          In the book of Acts, Chapter 4, verses 8-12, the Disciple Peter is standing before the ruling class of the Temple: The Sanhedrin. He and John are accused of practicing medicine on the Sabbath (by healing a man using God's name):
                          Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. his is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
                          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                          To bring this back to the topic, and this is a question for Good1, if he will indulge me...

                          The fact is, Paul with one exception is a self proclaimed apostle, and in the NT we see that the original apostles never accepted him. Far too easy for someone back then to self proclaim something like this, and invent stories that look magical in order to impress potential believers in what is claimed. Yet the apostles, the ones who walked and were taught by Christ Himself, never accepted Paul, yet our Christianity today is grounded in Paul and his interpretation of Christ.

                          Now the one place in the NT that does mention Paul is in Revelations, when the speaker is talking to the 7 Churches. Paul established the Ephesian church, and John in Revelations is basically saying that Paul was a false apostle.

                          Pauline Christianity is a religion that uses human fear, in order to control. So, what a nice fit with the Roman Empire. Purely coincidental? Hardly for any State religion has to mesh and be in harmony with the empire who embraces it, or a corruption of it.
                          I encourage you to read the book of Acts, Chapter 9. In it we find the conversion of Saul: Yes, of COURSE the new Christian church was scared of him! HE was the punisher ... a member of the Sanhedrin who's job it was to hunt down "Christians" and either imprison them or kill them. IN FACT, he was on the Road to Damascus WITH his new orders to hunt down members of this "new" faith when God appeared to him in a blinding light. Now, it was not Paul writing that account in Acts. It was Luke (the Doctor who wrote the Gospel bearing his name). After his conversion, he is taken in to Damascus where a disciple named Ananias is told (by God) to go to Saul (now named Paul): Ananias is scared because he has heard of Saul and his campaign against Christians. But God assures Ananias that Paul has been chosen by God, to wit:
                          But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake." -Acts 9:15-16
                          After this, Ananias took Paul to disciples where he was accepted and, after that, he met Barnabas and told the Apostles of his conversion and of his speaking directly with Christ ... and THEY accepted him too. So he started preaching in all the synagogues and also started establishing churches in Asia Minor (like the churches at Ephesus and at Corinth).

                          So, now, I've shown you where Paul was chosen by God and spoke directly to Jesus and was emminently qualified to be an Apostle, accepted by the other apostles. How about if you show ME how it is you believe he was rejected by the other apostles and that John was calling him a false apostle: Chapter and verse would be appreciated, if you please.

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