Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules - You must read(Updated!)

DISCLAIMER

You agree to NOT use this site or its affiliated sites, services you may have access to as a result of being a member here (subscriber or otherwise), to post items (images, textual material, etc.) that are pornographic in nature, illegal in the United States and/or the country you reside in, support or encourage illegal activities (e.g., terrorism), advertise for your own personal profit, or send unsolicited messages (i.e. SPAM) to members or non-members.

AND

You agree that if any clause or component of this document is found to not be legally binding in a court of law of proper jurisdiction then the remainder of this document shall remain fully binding and in full force.

AND

You agree to NOT hold Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (makers of the forum software), uspoliticsonline.com, sites affiliated with uspoliticsonline.com, its administrators, its moderators, others associated with its operation, and its owners liable for any and all of the following (in whole or in part):
Personal insults/attacks by other members.
The content posted by other members, whether directed at you personally or a label/classification you associate with. This includes remarks you consider to be libelous or slanderous in any way.
Any financial or time loss due to your participation here or as a result of something you read at this site, including posts/PMs by other members and feature(s)/software available at the domain uspoliticsonline.com.
The dissemination of any personal information about you as a result of either your negligence (e.g. staying logged into a computer that others have access to) or willingness to post such information on a public and or private forum, private message or chat box. This includes using your real name or other details that could allow other members and/or the general public to determine your true identity. You are prohibited from using your real name on these forums, either as your username or in posts / PMs you write.

FORUM RULES, IN ADDITION TO THE DISCLAIMER

1. These rules apply to all sections of USPOL, including public and private forums, blogs, and visitor messages.

2. You cannot attack and/or personally insult someone. You cannot bait other forum members; this includes referring to posters by derogatory terms. Please, remain courteous and respectful to all forum members at all times. You agree to take responsibility for reporting such posts when you come across them. Please, use the ignore feature if need be. Any member who intentionally and continually posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, may be regarded as a troll by staff, and have their account suspended or banned.

3. You cannot harass (sexually or otherwise) other members. This includes malicious, slanderous, or defamatory comments. If you are not sure if something you write is inappropriate or not then don't say it. Err on the side of caution.

4. Copying and Pasting Articles, and Starting New Threads. You cannot simply cut and paste in posts or when starting threads. You MUST provide the identifying information (source, author, date, and URL). You must also offer some original thoughts along with the cut and paste. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts from the article. Excerpts really shouldnt be more then a paragraph or two. Furthermore, if you use images or other copyrighted material in your posts or signature you must have permission of the copyright holder unless you know for a fact that the image is in the public domain. In addition:
a. It must include the identifying information; e.g., where available, the author, the publication, the date, the URL.
b. The member must offer some context, including: How did you hear of this article? What is your opinion? Why is it important to you? Why should it be important to forum readers? The more context you provide, the more you assist others in gauging the excerpted information's significance.
c. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts, not the whole thing or even the majority of the whole thing to encourage people to read the entire article.

A violation of any of the above will result in the deletion or closing of the post or thread and could earn you a warning or suspension. If you have any questions concering any of the above please PM a moderator and we will be happy to clarify.

5. You cannot post the same thing in multiple forums. You must not open similar threads about the same or a similar topic. You cannot spam the board or send unsolicited messages to members via PM, email or any other means.

6. Do not post off-topic. You cannot derail a thread with off topic posts.

7. You cannot shout in posts. This includes posting in all CAPS, bold, lIkE tHiS, and extra large font. Posts should also be one color, although you may use an additional color for highlighting ideas you wish to address.

8. You may not alter quotes in a way that misrepresents what was originally said.

9. Multiple accounts are not allowed. If you are found to have more than one account all accounts will be permanently terminated.

10. You cannot have a user name, avatar, signature, or post images that are deliberately offensive. That includes the display of overly explicit or graphic images that may not be suitable for minors.

11. Signatures can not have more than three lines of text, with a font size no larger than "4", and no more than two font colors. Images in signatures cannot be any larger than 800 pixels wide x 200 pixels tall. Animated images are not allowed.

12. You are prohibited from taking any action to disturb the use of the services by others, distribute material that contains viruses, spyware or any other malicious code or harmful programs. This includes interfering with the working of the network, attempts to gain unauthorized access to a service or other computer systems that are part of the site or any other site, by use of the available services.

13. Discussion of moderation actions in public and/or private forums is not permitted. Moderation actions include warnings, suspensions and the editing or deletion of posts. If a member has a concern about a moderation action, he or she is invited to address it with the board staff via Private Message. This rule exists to protect the privacy of all posters with regards to disciplinary action. The moderator team will never publicly discuss the warnings/suspensions of any posters, and we ask that you return the favor, whether about yourself or another poster. Posting about moderation actions in the public forums constitutes a violation. You are free to discuss a moderation action via Private Message with the moderator involved, but you may not harass or abuse the moderators (as already specified in the forum rules). In practical terms, this means that once a moderator tells you his or her decision is final, no further PMs about that moderation action are permitted. If you have a concern about a moderation action, you are free to appeal to a Forum Administrator via Private Message. You may only discuss moderator activities or discussion of moderation with staff member if you chose to private message and are not under any circumstances allowed to use the PM function to forward or promote moderator discussion in regards to specific forum action, amongst other regular members. Administrators do reserve the right to read said PMs and may do so ; if that results in discovery of messaging between posters of such moderator discussion then it will lead to the same violation being received for discussing said moderator actions on the forum. If you receive a message to the effect of having been given moderator information, please report it to a member of staff. Engaging back in that discussion with the original violator will earn you just as stiff a sanction.

14. Do not ignore moderators or administrators. Do not repost something a moderator or administrator has deleted. You cannot have moderators or administrators on your ignore list.

15. Only post in English. Short passages in foreign languages may be acceptable if its use seems helpful for the ongoing discussion and when there is no indication of a potential violation of the forum rules. Always provide a translation into English in such cases. In case of doubt, the incident will be regarded as a violation, no matter of the actual meaning of the foreign language text.

16. The use of words/comments etc. written by other posters, without approval of the poster in your personal signature is not allowed nor are references, by name, to other posters allowed.

17. Please pay attention to announcements by Forum staff that will be found in the "Welcome! / News & Announcements" forum from time to time.

18. Use of "liar", "lies", "lying", etc. Accusing someone of being a "liar" or similar accusations towards other posters will generally be regarded as implying an insult and therewith as a violation of the forum rules. "I question the validity of your statement because...", "That's not the truth" or "you are wrong about that" are sufficient for any decent discussion if you want to disagree with somebody's assertions.

19. Thread opening restriction for new members. In order to control SPAM, new members must have moderator approval to start their own threads.

20. Thread titles must relate to the discussion within. Do not make misleading titles, or titles such as "Guess what..." or "You'll never believe this...". Members need to be able to identify the general gist of the thread via the title. Profanity in thread titles is not permitted.

21. Forum members are instructed to use forum tools and abilities for their intended purposes and no other. If members identify a forum glitch or weakness of any kind that allows you to see or do something you know you shouldn't, please report it. Being aware of any unintended access to the Forum and failing to take appropriate steps to notify staff of said access issues, will create a presumption of seeking to take advantage of the issue, will result in either account suspension, or banishment.

22. Any link to a site that contains graphic content, must contain a warning describing what a person might reasonably expect to view if they click on said link. No graphic pictures are to be posted on the Forum.

23. Threats or advocations of violence toward a public figure, or member of the Forum, will not be tolerated. Conversation about revolution or the like is not prohibited by this rule; directly calling for violence is, eg It's time to kill every <redacted> that voted for the bill, is not permitted.

24. Accounts with no posts will be deleted after 30 days. Inactive accounts with low post histories may be deleted after one year.

25. Private forums are something offered to members that decide to contribute directly to this site via donations. These donations help immensely in keeping this site up and running. Private forums are designed to allow the contributing member discuss whatever he/she wants to and to have the power to direct that discussion in whatever way he/she chose. They were not designed nor are they intended for simply talking trash about members that don't have access to the forum. While the targeted members cannot see the forum or the comments, it creates a negative atmosphere that really isn't necessary. If you want to totally rip apart ideas, ideologies, political parties, etc. that is fine. We simply ask that you don't use the private forums as a means to attack other members that aren't privy to such comments. It is difficult enough to have a political discussion forum because the discussion of politics is inherently heated as people are so passionate about their beliefs...the ones that take the time to come to such a site in the first place at least. The idea of private forums is so people of similar political persuasions can discuss whatever they want without fear of being attacked. Nonetheless, we hope that a certain level of maturity would foster itself within such an arena and not simply lend itself to a bashing forum.

Private Forums are governed by all of the above Forum rules. In addition:
  • Private forums that essentially become abandoned homes will be subject to deletion, donation or reorganization. Just like elsewhere in life, clubs sometimes lose their vitality and purpose for a myriad of reasons. If it becomes clear that a private forum has clearly lost its vitality and nobody is going to really use it anymore, owners are advised to consider whether to reuse the forum for something new and productive rather than let them linger or notify the Administration that the forum should be rearranged for other purposes, closed, merged with other compatible private forums, donated to others for new purposes, etc. Do not be concerned that your forum must be a membership and post count race with others to avoid falling under this policy; the question is whether your forum has actual vitality instead of being 'brain dead.'
  • Additionally, private forums may only be owned by subscribed members in the Platinum or Diamond categories.
  • Should the owner of a private forum be banned, quit USPOL or otherwise abandon the forum the PF will be transferred to another owner or closed.
  • Propriety of private forums. Administration staff will determine the desirability of a proposed private forum and enact any conditions upon it to ensure its purpose is productive.
  • Any and all instances of sharing accounts by allowing someone else to log in under their own account so they can see into private forums for which they are otherwise not permitted to access, will be deemed violation of the double account rule and all caught doing so will be permanently banned.
  • Relaying private forum posts and information to other posters who are not members of the particular private forum for any negative or destructive purpose (eg mean-spirited gossip, fueling interpersonal disputes, etc), is not permitted, and will constitute a violation of the Forum rules.
  • For purposes of monitoring USPOL Terms of Service Administrative staff (not Moderators) will have access to Private Forums.
  • All Private Forums must have at least one active Administrator as a member for purposes of handling issues which cannot be addressed through moderation permissions.
  • Discussion of moderation activities is prohibited on the open site and is likewise prohibited in Private Forums.

26. The administrators and moderators reserve the right to edit and/or delete a post,and/or close a thread, and/or delete a thread at any time if of the opinion that the post is too obscene, inappropriate, or the discussion has run its course.

27. 'Back seat moderating' is not allowed. If you take issue with another poster's contribution to the forum, you're welcome to report any posts you think are out of line, but you should not bring it up publicly within the forum.

28. Images in posts (whether embedded or hot linked) must be reasonable in size. 800x800 should be considered a good rule of thumb. Excessively large images make it difficult for users on mobile devices to load pages. If necessary please simply link to very large images using the URL tags. In addition, the following images are not permitted (including, but not limited to pages with images or videos containing):
  • Strategically covered nudity
  • Sheer or see-through clothing
  • Lewd or provocative poses
  • Close-ups of breasts, buttocks, or crotches

29. Any solicitation or communication involving sports betting / gambling / online casinos / bookies and or internet based card or slot machine systems or sites will lead to all said content being physically removed from the site and server, and will lead to any and or all parties involved being permanently removed and banned from the site to the farthest extent possible. This includes any links to any form of bookmaker, casino, any type of game or match or event where money transfers on the outcome or link of any sort to wire act violations and or anything in violation of either the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, or the Federal wire Act. This applies not only to the open forum but all and or any chat rooms, articles, private messages and or private forums. All content that violates this rule will be deleted, without notice.

CONSEQUENCES

Failure to comply with any of the forum rules may result in your posts being edited or deleted and/or your account being temporarily or permanently banned from the forums. U.S. Politics Online uses a warning system that generates an automated Private Message to members when they are in violation of Forum rules. The decision to issue a warning is left to the discretion of the moderator or administrator handling the violation. If a member does not agree with an action taken by a moderator, they can appeal to an administrator after seeking clarification from the moderator who issued the warning/infraction and appealing to them in the first instance. Members MAY NOT harass a moderator or administrator by sending excessive PMs when they are discussing an appeal.

Violations are assigned a point value. Points are valid for 30 days. When a members earns 10 points, their account will be automatically suspended: five (5) days for a first suspension; ten (10) days for a second suspension; and twenty (20) days for a third suspension. If a member incurs an additional 10 points after having served three periods of suspension, then they will be permanently banned from the Forum.

Point values are as follows:
Zero (0) points Warning
Two (2) points - Minor infraction / Non post infraction (minor) / Off topic posts / spamming
Four (4) points - Academic dishonesty / Baiting / Discussing moderator or administrator actions / Implying an insult / Minor insults / Moderate infraction / Non-post infraction (moderate) / Thread dumping
Six (6) points - Direct insult at another member / major infraction / Non-post infraction (major)
Ten (10) points - Act of criminality, or advocating thereof

The administrators and moderators also bear the right to issue warnings, temporarily suspend or ban posters for continued trolling or other serious misconduct (eg. professional spamming) even if the poster has not yet reached the maximum warning points or suspensions level. Other options if the above consequences do not seem adequate include placing the member in a moderation queue, which means all posts will have to be approved before they are posted to the board.

PRIVACY POLICY

All information obtained by the end user via the registration process is for internal purposes only and will not be sold to or shared with any third parties. However, if the end user participates in illegal activities and a court of proper jurisdiction orders U.S. Politics Online to release certain information about said user then we will act according to the law. Furthermore, no information will be released on threat of a lawsuit, attempted or actual intimidation, or due to any other reason except as notated in the first sentence of this paragraph. Nonetheless, keep in mind that the information we do have is very limited and generally only consists of the IP address a member uses.

SUBSCRIPTIONS

U.S. Politics Online offers several subscription plans to help cover the operational costs of the site. As a thank you for your donation, you will receive special added benefits meant to enhance your U.S. Politics Online experience. Plans vary in price, starting at only $0.05/day, and benefits vary with the price. Benefits include ability to go straight to new posts, to search the forum, larger avatar, private forums, invisible mode, photo gallery, email, web hosting, and no advertisement banners. Please, click here for more details.
See more
See less

The Parable of the Rich Fool

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Parable of the Rich Fool

    So it turns out I'm leading a Bible Study next week looking at the "Parable of the Rich Fool." As I'm mulling it over, I thought I might try throwing it out to the diverse collection of minds here and seeing what people think of it.

    Originally posted by Luke 12:13-23

    Someone in the crowd said to him, Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.

    Jesus replied, Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you? Then he said to them, Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.

    And he told them this parable: The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.

    Then he said, This is what Ill do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And Ill say to myself, You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.

    But God said to him, You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?

    This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.


    Then Jesus said to his disciples: Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes."
    What do you make of that?

  • #2
    Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

    Originally posted by Dilettante View Post
    So it turns out I'm leading a Bible Study next week looking at the "Parable of the Rich Fool." As I'm mulling it over, I thought I might try throwing it out to the diverse collection of minds here and seeing what people think of it.



    What do you make of that?
    Let ask you this: what thesis are intending to bring to the congregation? and how does the parable serve as an example?

    ?


    • #3
      Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

      Originally posted by jet57 View Post
      Let ask you this: what thesis are intending to bring to the congregation? and how does the parable serve as an example?
      Actually, I'm kinda looking at it the other way 'round. In this case, the parable isn't an example but the thing itself. Or, rather, I hope to talk about what the thesis of the parable itself is.

      ?


      • #4
        Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

        Originally posted by Dilettante View Post
        Actually, I'm kinda looking at it the other way 'round. In this case, the parable isn't an example but the thing itself. Or, rather, I hope to talk about what the thesis of the parable itself is.
        Okay; again: very imortant: I interpret the thesis to be; one who produces something necessary to the people, but yet has no regard for them, and thus does not share as the spirit of God would have him do . . .

        Does that explain what your thesis would be?

        (sorry to ask questions, but I want to make sure I know what you want before I can comment futher).

        ?


        • #5
          Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

          What should he do with his excess harvest, that is better than enjoying earthly rewards only for himself?

          -Do not think only for oneself, at least when one has more than is needed for one's own existence.

          It may be as simple as that; provide for others when you can. That is important, while enjoying excess is unimportant.

          ?


          • #6
            Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

            Note the Rich Fool is planning to sit on his ass after being productive and enahncing his means to enjoy his produce witbhout continuing to be productive. He's working for a state of now, not a better future.

            ?


            • #7
              Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

              Originally posted by jet57 View Post
              Okay; again: very imortant: I interpret the thesis to be; one who produces something necessary to the people, but yet has no regard for them, and thus does not share as the spirit of God would have him do . . .

              Does that explain what your thesis would be?

              (sorry to ask questions, but I want to make sure I know what you want before I can comment futher).
              As to what I want, I'm really just after a general sense of how people respond to the parable. I suppose my own interpretation would be similar to yours. The parable seems to highlight the foolishness and impropriety of covetousness and greed, but notably casts "greed" not [just] in the context of cheating or exploiting people but simply in focusing on the mass accumulation of legitimately gained wealth.

              I didn't want the OP quotation to be excessively long, but further along in the same chapter/sermon, Jesus says,

              Originally posted by Luke 12:29-34
              "And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well. Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

              ?


              • #8
                Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                What should he do with his excess harvest, that is better than enjoying earthly rewards only for himself?

                -Do not think only for oneself, at least when one has more than is needed for one's own existence.

                It may be as simple as that; provide for others when you can. That is important, while enjoying excess is unimportant.
                Yeah, I think that question is kind of the natural follow up.

                Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                Note the Rich Fool is planning to sit on his ass after being productive and enhancing his means to enjoy his produce without continuing to be productive. He's working for a state of now, not a better future.
                True. Though I'm not sure his tale would have ended up any more happily if he enlarged his barns, kept all the harvest, and simply planned on working to accumulate even more rather than retire.

                ?


                • #9
                  Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                  Originally posted by Dilettante View Post
                  As to what I want, I'm really just after a general sense of how people respond to the parable. I suppose my own interpretation would be similar to yours. The parable seems to highlight the foolishness and impropriety of covetousness and greed, but notably casts "greed" not [just] in the context of cheating or exploiting people but simply in focusing on the mass accumulation of legitimately gained wealth.

                  I didn't want the OP quotation to be excessively long, but further along in the same chapter/sermon, Jesus says,
                  mass accumulation of legitimately gained wealth
                  That's an interesting statement to make: using the word legitimate in your context almost grants passage to someone prortrayed as a hoarder.

                  As to your thesis; I would say about such a person: what price glory? What good is such wealth if one does not desire to try and make the world / your true environment, a better place? Scrooge was a hoarder until the spirit proved to him that real gold is on the inside. Tangible gold is only good for one lonely purpose if you just sit on it.

                  As to the comments of Jesus; he's simply saying that everything you need for happiness on this earth has already been supplied you: that's the idea. So since you can't take money with you, why worry about? Why let it rule your consciousness? In the true community of man; in the spirit, we are all programmed to help one another: it's easier that way. So, why not make it easy on yourself: one begets two, two begets four and so on . . .

                  ?


                  • #10
                    Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                    While this passage makes a lot of great philosophical sense (I mean who can argue with giving to the poor, even to the extent of selling your own possessions), and any moral person will agree with such actions and, those not currently given to God's grace through Jesus Christ might even be tempted to believe that is the way to Salvation.

                    From my my perspective, however, the key to this passage is in verse 21: "So is the man who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God."

                    In my opinion, God is not condemning accumulation (particularly since this man's abundance was a result of his hard work, which the Bible supports). Rather, I understand him to be raising the alarm over those who focus solely on accumulating things at the expense of a relationship with God.

                    i believe the church today is not doing a good job of reaching the marginalized OR providing opportunity for its members to serve others. Oh, some of us have our soup kitchens or our clothing drives or whatever, yet we still beg for others money every Sunday and generally do NOT rely on God to bring the harvest into the storehouse, so little wonder individuals also do not grasp that encouragement to be about the things of God and worry not about our earthly station.

                    ?


                    • #11
                      Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                      Originally posted by Dilettante View Post
                      So it turns out I'm leading a Bible Study next week looking at the "Parable of the Rich Fool." As I'm mulling it over, I thought I might try throwing it out to the diverse collection of minds here and seeing what people think of it.



                      What do you make of that?
                      Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered. God commands us to be charitable with the possessions he grants us, and the rich man had obviously had more than enough grain (since he was alive to build a bigger barn) before. Ergo the barn was more than large enough already and his grain was a surplus he could easily have spread around to the community (many of whom probably helped in his fields), while retaining enough for his own needs.

                      The part about him dying that night is there to illustrate that the world is fleeting, fairly meaningless (on its own as just stuff), and not something you can take with you. It is meant to reinforce the idea of charity by showing you the stick (you should've done what god commanded!), illustrating to you how you can really only use so many carrots and the rest could be better used elsewhere, and o by the way, the carrot is useless when you die which funny story true story is when the stick is applied if you haven't been doing with the carrots what you were told to.

                      Do as commanded and be rewarded. Scoff at God's commands and get the stick.

                      ?


                      • #12
                        Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                        Originally posted by Dilettante View Post
                        So it turns out I'm leading a Bible Study next week looking at the "Parable of the Rich Fool." As I'm mulling it over, I thought I might try throwing it out to the diverse collection of minds here and seeing what people think of it.



                        What do you make of that?
                        Well, it seems rather clear, as well as common sensical. The very thing that motivates a man to be rich, is the same thing that denies himself salvation. Ego gratification, at the expense, or as you ignore others.

                        Now, how is a man not to worry about his life? The man who has died unto his own ego, will not have psychological worries, for the ego is the center that causes the worry. As it is the center from which all sin comes, in the pursuit of self gratification, in many areas. So, if a man follows the Teachings of Christ, he will deny himself, himself being the ego, the self image created of memory, and in that sin comes to an end, as well as worry, fear of death, fear of losing those things the ego is attached to. Then, that person can be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Such a man will not desire to be rich, and if someone made him rich, he would give it away to help alleviate the human suffering that he could. Yet the man who sits on a pile of gold that he could never spend, is spiritually sick, for he doesn't know that thing which is more valuable than gold or silver, and which unlike gold and silver, is imperishable. For as soon as a man dies, no matter how much gold he hoarded, that gold stays on this earth, and that gold effectively kept him from the imperishable.

                        There are no such things as rich Christians. God wants all to have enough to eat, to be clothed, to have shelter to protect the sacred human life, but He doesn't want anyone to have excess as his other children die of starvation.

                        ?


                        • #13
                          Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                          Well, it seems rather clear, as well as common sensical. The very thing that motivates a man to be rich, is the same thing that denies himself salvation. Ego gratification, at the expense, or as you ignore others.

                          Now, how is a man not to worry about his life? The man who has died unto his own ego, will not have psychological worries, for the ego is the center that causes the worry. As it is the center from which all sin comes, in the pursuit of self gratification, in many areas. So, if a man follows the Teachings of Christ, he will deny himself, himself being the ego, the self image created of memory, and in that sin comes to an end, as well as worry, fear of death, fear of losing those things the ego is attached to. Then, that person can be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. Such a man will not desire to be rich, and if someone made him rich, he would give it away to help alleviate the human suffering that he could. Yet the man who sits on a pile of gold that he could never spend, is spiritually sick, for he doesn't know that thing which is more valuable than gold or silver, and which unlike gold and silver, is imperishable. For as soon as a man dies, no matter how much gold he hoarded, that gold stays on this earth, and that gold effectively kept him from the imperishable.

                          There are no such things as rich Christians. God wants all to have enough to eat, to be clothed, to have shelter to protect the sacred human life, but He doesn't want anyone to have excess as his other children die of starvation.
                          Of course there is such a thing as rich Christians (or you are going to have to explain away Scriptures like Matthew 20): The issue is not wealth. The issue is making wealth a god. That is sin just like he who makes pride his god or gluttony, his, or ANY natural or necessary process carried to an extreme.

                          ?


                          • #14
                            Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                            Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                            Of course there is such a thing as rich Christians (or you are going to have to explain away Scriptures like Matthew 20): The issue is not wealth. The issue is making wealth a god. That is sin just like he who makes pride his god or gluttony, his, or ANY natural or necessary process carried to an extreme.
                            Anyone who is rich, has already made wealth a god, Good1. I don't believe we are reading the same Teachings. Or if we are, someone has convoluted the interpretation in order to defend wealthy men, to defend wealth Generally though it is done using the O.T., not the N.T. If it is easier for a camel to pass through the needle's eye, I don't think one could be clearer than that. For that is a very difficult thing to do, to push even a baby camel through the eye of a needle. Of course God could push it through, but you or I couldn't. And it is you and I that could become rich, not God.

                            I attend comedy time each week when I listen to some of these tv evangelists. They of course want people to send their money in, and the way they get them to do that is to teach them that if you send him money, God will repay it, and then you hear the testimony how this poor black woman gave her last 20 bucks and the next week miraculously she got a check in the mail for 1800 bucks, proving that god repays and then adds to it. And then the preacher says, God wants us to be rich. He wants us to own fine cars, big houses, with huge bank accounts. Funny that I cannot find where Christ ever said that, in fact, quite the contrary.

                            God wants us to prosper, but there is a wide margin between prospering and being rich. Prospering is middle class living, not living like a rich man. But blessed are the poor, blessed are the meek. Those are more apt to be His people than the Koch brothers.

                            As I said earlier, if a real Christian came upon great wealth, without pursuing it with all of his energy, he would give it away, after his own needs, basic needs were cared for. For if you loved others as you love your own ego, if you really did, you would use that money to help others, who feel the same sorrow as you do.

                            I searched matthew 20 and didn't see a thing about rich men, but I did read the parable of the workers. Which was a Teaching, but it was not a Teaching in regards to wealth being fine and dandy, it was a parable that speaks to something spiritual, and was not intended as a handbook on how to pay early workers and late workers. Parables transcend the literal, they point to something away from the literal, beyond what can be expressed in mere words.
                            Last edited by Blue Doggy; 05-21-2014, 07:04 AM.

                            ?


                            • #15
                              Re: The Parable of the Rich Fool

                              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                              Anyone who is rich, has already made wealth a god, Good1. I don't believe we are reading the same Teachings. Or if we are, someone has convoluted the interpretation in order to defend wealthy men, to defend wealth Generally though it is done using the O.T., not the N.T. If it is easier for a camel to pass through the needle's eye, I don't think one could be clearer than that. For that is a very difficult thing to do, to push even a baby camel through the eye of a needle. Of course God could push it through, but you or I couldn't. And it is you and I that could become rich, not God.

                              I attend comedy time each week when I listen to some of these tv evangelists. They of course want people to send their money in, and the way they get them to do that is to teach them that if you send him money, God will repay it, and then you hear the testimony how this poor black woman gave her last 20 bucks and the next week miraculously she got a check in the mail for 1800 bucks, proving that god repays and then adds to it. And then the preacher says, God wants us to be rich. He wants us to own fine cars, big houses, with huge bank accounts. Funny that I cannot find where Christ ever said that, in fact, quite the contrary.

                              God wants us to prosper, but there is a wide margin between prospering and being rich. Prospering is middle class living, not living like a rich man. But blessed are the poor, blessed are the meek. Those are more apt to be His people than the Koch brothers.

                              As I said earlier, if a real Christian came upon great wealth, without pursuing it with all of his energy, he would give it away, after his own needs, basic needs were cared for. For if you loved others as you love your own ego, if you really did, you would use that money to help others, who feel the same sorrow as you do.
                              You are basing your opinion on what you hear from TV Evangelists? That is a comedy all in and of itself. Base your understanding on the Bible and you will come to a much cleaner (and supportable) position and understanding.

                              You cannot say what a "real Christian" will do: All you are qualified to ajudge is what you would do. Your "if you really do/did" rationalization might be a salve for your own conscience or behavior, but it has no basis in reality (or in Scripture). That scripture relating the conundrum of a camel passing through the Needle's Eye is a great example, but you will have to read the entire passage (which includes the portion Dilletante asked our opinions about) from Mark 10:17 through 31. Note Jesus is first telling the rich young ruler the ONE thing he lacks is [his riches], which God knows the young man cannot give up. He has great wealth and cannot give it up: That is not on God, that is on the value that man places on his wealth. He has made wealth his god. Jesus then clarifies that [man placing such value on wealth that he cannot place God above it] is what keeps him from a relationship with God (the "harder for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle..." part), thus it is BECAUSE of man clinging to his great wealth at the expense of a relationship with God, that it is harder for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle.

                              Then, when the Disciples got concerned that NO one could be saved, God explained that only He can save (with man it is impossible ... because we all have sin in our lives that keeps us from a relationship with God). It is not wealth God condemns: It is holding our wealth up as our god He cannot tolerate.

                              ?

                              Working...
                              X