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How do you feel about national referendum?

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  • How do you feel about national referendum?

    In my opinion, we, as US citizens deserve the right to national referendum more than ever. How do you feel about it? I'll use the ACA as an example. The polls say things, as do the partisan hacks on the hill, why shouldn't the people decide on an issue that has bitterly divided the nation?
    How about term limits? We all know there is no way in hell someone will introduce a bill for term limits and it would pass. So what if the people got to vote on it? How about if they could vote on kicking the paid lobbyists out of DC?
    Let 'er rip, folks, post your thoughts on this.

  • #2
    Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

    I'm not opposed to referendums, but the rules would have to be strict:

    1) Only issues where most citizens would be directly affected would be subject to referendum. Health care reform was a good example. Raising taxes on other people, gay marriage, or spending levels for various programs would not be an appropriate subject for a referendum.
    2) Clear majority needed to pass. Call it 52%. No recounts. If it's close enough for a recount to be necessary, the referendum automatically fails. I do not want to go through the drama of a national recount.
    3) There must be a turnout threshold like most European referenda. 50% of eligible voters must turn out for the referendum to pass.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

      Originally posted by chassisman View Post
      In my opinion, we, as US citizens deserve the right to national referendum more than ever.
      We have one... called Constitutional amendments.

      Hard to do... harder still the cheat on. Everyone (large and small states) get an equal say.

      Or would you rather have the voters of California and the New York City Democratic machine set national policy?

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

        No way in hell on a referendum. That's just a code word for direct democracy and once that genie is out of the bottle it's sayonora sister.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

          I can't think of any other way to reform our corrupt system. Until the lobbyists are run out of DC there wil be no government of the people. Term limits will never happen either. So whats the fix if not referendum?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

            Congress usually goes along with public opinion, or ideology. The vast majority of decisions on big bills can be explained by those two factors without having to look for anything sinister. Where the corruption comes in is the little things that get snuck into bills, like earmarks.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

              Originally posted by chassisman View Post
              I can't think of any other way to reform our corrupt system. Until the lobbyists are run out of DC there wil be no government of the people. Term limits will never happen either. So whats the fix if not referendum?
              Article. V.

              The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

              So 2/3 of 50 is 34

              Alabama
              Alaska
              Arizona
              Arkansas
              Florida
              Georgia
              Idaho
              Indiana
              Kansas
              Kentucky
              Louisiana
              Mississippi
              Missouri
              Montana
              Nebraska
              New Mexico
              North Carolina
              North Dakota
              Ohio
              Oklahoma
              South Carolina
              South Dakota
              Tennessee
              Texas
              Utah
              Virginia
              West Virginia
              Wyoming

              There is 28... 6 more to go...

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                Im a bit nervous as to what the mob would come up with, but I could see a popular way to propose an amendment, versus the current system which is difficult. In reality, I think the US is too big, and needs to be split up so that power is again concentrated with smaller groups of peopel over smaller groups of people, not one elected official, or 535 elected officials, or one large majority of people over everyone.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                  Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
                  ahoy Chassisman,

                  don't ye think we have a national referendum at election time?

                  - MeadHallPirate
                  That's based on candidates, he means to vote on individual policies. Or to put it another way, rather you just voting Obama you have a chance to vote on his policies instead. That way, perhaps instead of being disenfranchized by him being a moderate conservative in your opinion you can vote for whether the policies go through or not like they have in Europe for major policy decisions. They however, ultimately get disenfranchized by the fact that no matter how they vote eventually it gets corrected and the busy bodies in Brussels get their own way. It'd add a whole new magnitude to the dissatisfaction that folks face with their dejection of the current system.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                    That the people should have a direct say on some issues could clean up the cesspool in DC. Short of that, it will never be cleaned up.

                    But one has to be careful here. We could end up with a Mobocracy too. Yet if you kept it to stuff like term limits, K street, yeah, I would support it. And if we were to indulge, we would need to do it periodically, to give the folks a chance to change fuckups.

                    This will of course never happen, because it would put more power in the hands of the people, instead of trusting your rep to do that for you. Those guys in DC do not want their power undermined by the dirty masses. Truth is I think, if the people were really represented in DC, we would not have the nation we currently have. Our nation is a nation that is ruled by special interests. It is ruled to their benefit. I really do believe that. A referendum would jeopardize the status quo. Therefore it can never happen.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                      Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
                      ahoy Chassisman,

                      don't ye think we have a national referendum at election time?

                      - MeadHallPirate
                      No, we have a choice between crooked fucks 1 & 2.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                        Originally posted by jviehe View Post
                        Im a bit nervous as to what the mob would come up with, but I could see a popular way to propose an amendment, versus the current system which is difficult. In reality, I think the US is too big, and needs to be split up so that power is again concentrated with smaller groups of peopel over smaller groups of people, not one elected official, or 535 elected officials, or one large majority of people over everyone.
                        I think the US is not too big, but hopelessly divided and needs to transfer constitutional rights to the states, IOW, let state constitutional law override federal constitutional law instead of visa-versa. This would allow people to choose the type of horseshit rule they would have to live under. If a state wanted to obey federal c-law, then they could choose that as well.

                        A good example of this would be problems with illegal immigration. If state law ruled, our border states would have the right to address the situation and control their respective borders. If a state wanted legal pot, so be it. And so on.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                          Originally posted by jviehe View Post
                          Im a bit nervous as to what the mob would come up with, but I could see a popular way to propose an amendment, versus the current system which is difficult. In reality, I think the US is too big, and needs to be split up so that power is again concentrated with smaller groups of peopel over smaller groups of people, not one elected official, or 535 elected officials, or one large majority of people over everyone.
                          The 10th Ammendment is supposed to limit the federal government, but it is largely ignored by almost every politician in Washington.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                            Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                            Article. V.

                            The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

                            So 2/3 of 50 is 34

                            Alabama
                            Alaska
                            Arizona
                            Arkansas
                            Florida
                            Georgia
                            Idaho
                            Indiana
                            Kansas
                            Kentucky
                            Louisiana
                            Mississippi
                            Missouri
                            Montana
                            Nebraska
                            New Mexico
                            North Carolina
                            North Dakota
                            Ohio
                            Oklahoma
                            South Carolina
                            South Dakota
                            Tennessee
                            Texas
                            Utah
                            Virginia
                            West Virginia
                            Wyoming

                            There is 28... 6 more to go...
                            Yep. The Constitution is definitely the way to go. If the social conservatives had any brains they'd be able to pass Constitutional amendments against Gay marriage, for term limits, or whatever it is they claim they want this week. Good thing they've got more hatred than brains.

                            On the other hand, a popular vote referendum would slightly favor liberals since they vote in more populous areas.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #15
                              Re: How do you feel about national referendum?

                              Originally posted by Texan View Post
                              The 10th Ammendment is supposed to limit the federal government, but it is largely ignored by almost every politician in Washington.
                              Well, thats why I would split it up. What does Florida need from the US govt that it cant provide for itself?

                              מה מכילות החדשות?

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