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CIA Report on Getting Terror Suspects to Talk

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Good1 View Post

    AH AH AH, there, BD: "hate" is a sin and you have claimed to have rid yourself of sin. Tsk, tsk, tsk: "...that satanic Cheney?" 'tis but to laugh.
    Good grief. Can one not use hyperbole when one writes?

    I have never said I ever ridded myself of sin. Never. I have said I don't feel the drive from the ego to sin. There is a tremendous difference in that distinction. I could never rid myself of anything. Any attempt to do that would be trapped in the vicious circle. Christ tried to teach us, that whosoever shall save his soul will lose it. Self effort is therefore useless. For the SELF is the problem from the get-go. No one can self will virtue. Virtue can only exist when the self is out of the way. When it assumes its proper place. Only then can man love without this incessant sinning that comes from the movement of the ego seeking SOMETHING, with that something generally being some form of SELF gratification, even as it hurts others.

    Stop self projecting your own consciousness upon me. I am not like you. And I thank God for that. I sure do not thank myself, for that self is in the grave. Where it belongs. I just need to throw some dirt on that SELF that is your center. For it stinks like a corpse, even as we speak.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #17
      Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
      Anyone who thinks these tactics magically stopped when Obama was elected is a fool....
      You are probably right. I wonder Matt, are you against EIT, a nice word for torture?

      This "word engineering" appears in some of the old sci fi novels, as propaganda tools. You distort, corrupt the English language, in order to attempt to control the minds of citizens, in order to gain acceptance of what was prior, unacceptable.

      There is little difference between Obama's admin and the one that preceded it in these areas. Both are veiled in secrecy, like any fascist state would be.

      What I find amusing, is that generally the right side folks are all fine with torture, when it comes to protecting America. But this same group will tear FDR a new asshole, when it comes to him protecting America by putting the Japanese, and some of the germans and Italians in camps to keep them from sabotage. Yet FDR did not torture these interned people. He just removed them as a threat as war was raging against Italy, Germany, and Japan. And unlike how americans were treated by japan, we treated our own humanely.

      Of course, no one ever accused the right side of being non hypocritical. And it's always ok when they do something that America saw as wrong in the past, and even tried the Japanese over, after the war. They like to make up the rules as they go along. It's all a relative thing to them.




      Last edited by Blue Doggy; 12-11-2014, 05:54 AM.

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      • #18
        Torture likely only has use ofr intel over fairly short periods of time. It is disgusting but so is blowing up homes with a drone, or setting fire to a family farm, or filling people with lead...like all violence without oversight it is easily abused and moves from cruel desperatio into sadistic abuse of power quickly.

        I recall (but not verbatm) the words of a young russian woman in charge of an interrogationn squad, her interrogations started like this "You will be killed, if you give me information we can use and verify you will die quickly, if you lie or give us nothing you will spend a long time dying", very few needed persuasion and she did exactly what she told them she would. It worked but only in the short term.

        In an amnesty report I saw a lot of torture was abuse of power over others. People usually tell you what they thin you want to hear fairly quickly but it really can't be trusted as a man will say anything to keep his fingers and eyes. Nuns offfer little effective intel on radicals while they are raped and cigars are extinguished on their skin. Even the hardest mercanaeries will talk when you begin to deglove them. Torture is hideos and it isn't a long road fomwaterboarding to rape rooms and then slow sadistic destruction of humanity.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

          Good grief. Can one not use hyperbole when one writes?

          I have never said I ever ridded myself of sin. Never. I have said I don't feel the drive from the ego to sin. There is a tremendous difference in that distinction. I could never rid myself of anything. Any attempt to do that would be trapped in the vicious circle. Christ tried to teach us, that whosoever shall save his soul will lose it. Self effort is therefore useless. For the SELF is the problem from the get-go. No one can self will virtue. Virtue can only exist when the self is out of the way. When it assumes its proper place. Only then can man love without this incessant sinning that comes from the movement of the ego seeking SOMETHING, with that something generally being some form of SELF gratification, even as it hurts others.

          Stop self projecting your own consciousness upon me. I am not like you. And I thank God for that. I sure do not thank myself, for that self is in the grave. Where it belongs. I just need to throw some dirt on that SELF that is your center. For it stinks like a corpse, even as we speak.
          Well, at least I got you to start talking your pseudo-spiritual gibberish. That's SOMETHING.

          Kahlid Sheikh Mohammed "...the mastermind of 9/11 who has killed 3000 Americans...he is in our possession, we know he is the architect and what are we supposed to do? Kiss him on both cheeks and tell him 'please, please tell us what you know.' Of course not. We did exactly what needed to be done in order to catch those who were guilty on 9/11 and to prevent a further attack and we were successful on both parts."
          "This report said it was not successful."
          "the report is full of crap, excuse me."
          "you're saying this led to actionable intelligence"
          "absolutely."
          "I don't know all the allegations that are out there [but] 'Torture' was something we very carefully avoided. One of the reasons we went to the Justice Department on the program was because we wanted them to tell us what is the line, legally, between what is acceptable and what isn't."
          Quotes from a video clip of the interview on Fox with former VP Dick Cheney.

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          • #20
            From Herman Cain's blog:
            You have to ask, If it's such a serious issue for the Bush Administration to have "tortured" detained terrorists back when we still had a president who cared about fighting terror, why did Senate Democrats wait seven years to release their report on this purported atrocity?

            The answer is simple: Politics ... it's time for a series of lectures about how horrible it is to "torture" terrorists so we don't talk about a whole host of other things, particularly these things:
            • The election results, both federal and state...
            • Grubergate...
            • Obamacare: It's imploding...
            • Unemployment (the real unemployment figure, not the one the government uses, is still over 10%)
            • the IRS Scandal (Lois Lerner's e-mails have finally been located)
            • The National Debt (now over $18 Trillion, $8 trillion of which is exclusively from Obama

            Like I said last week: This report serves NO purpose other than to distract the public... although I didn't call out all of those events from which they're trying to distract us.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #21
              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

              You are probably right. I wonder Matt, are you against EIT, a nice word for torture?

              This "word engineering" appears in some of the old sci fi novels, as propaganda tools. You distort, corrupt the English language, in order to attempt to control the minds of citizens, in order to gain acceptance of what was prior, unacceptable.

              There is little difference between Obama's admin and the one that preceded it in these areas. Both are veiled in secrecy, like any fascist state would be.

              What I find amusing, is that generally the right side folks are all fine with torture, when it comes to protecting America. But this same group will tear FDR a new asshole, when it comes to him protecting America by putting the Japanese, and some of the germans and Italians in camps to keep them from sabotage. Yet FDR did not torture these interned people. He just removed them as a threat as war was raging against Italy, Germany, and Japan. And unlike how americans were treated by japan, we treated our own humanely.

              Of course, no one ever accused the right side of being non hypocritical. And it's always ok when they do something that America saw as wrong in the past, and even tried the Japanese over, after the war. They like to make up the rules as they go along. It's all a relative thing to them.

              You're on drugs if you believe we weren't torturing Krauts and Nips during the Roosevelt and Truman years. We didn't even look at them as humans; we still don't look at Nazi's as humans. We even specifically targeted civilians; the more that were killed, the better. During that time period, the police were still using rubber hoses to get suspects to "confess". Hell, we were still torturing Nazi’s even after the war was over.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #22
                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post


                And that makes me feel better about Pres.Bush. I think he would have had a problem with what his CIA was doing. But since Pres Bush was intentionally kept in the dark, and perhaps even lied to by the likes of that satanic Cheney, there is little we can lay at Pres. Bush's feet.
                Of course Bush was kept in the dark. This is done by design for plausible deniability. It's not like the CIA was trying to sneak around behing Bush's back. It's more like a, "I don't know and I don't want to know." type of thing.

                Btw....I feel it strange that you are taking this POV since I seem to remember you saying some pretty horrible things about the Ferguson protesters and those are out own citizens and they hadn't even killed anyone.

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                • #23
                  And this is the liberal goal in releasing this report, shoddy as it is. Anything to make the U.S. look bad.

                  Poll: Americans Say Release of 'Torture' Report Hurts US More Than 'Torture' Itself


                  http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...rture-n1931161

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by fishjoel View Post

                    Of course Bush was kept in the dark. This is done by design for plausible deniability. It's not like the CIA was trying to sneak around behing Bush's back. It's more like a, "I don't know and I don't want to know." type of thing.

                    Btw....I feel it strange that you are taking this POV since I seem to remember you saying some pretty horrible things about the Ferguson protesters and those are out own citizens and they hadn't even killed anyone.
                    Then I don't feel the same about Pres. Bush. Plausible deniability doesn't do it for me. My impression, and it could be totally wrong in regards to this man, was that he wasn't the brightest light bulb on the tree, and could be 'used" by bright men like Tricky Dick Cheney, who I never had a positive impression of.

                    I supported the peaceful ferguson protesters. But do not support the criminals who burned and looted. All americans who believe in our constitution should support peaceful protests and people speaking out.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                      And this is the liberal goal in releasing this report, shoddy as it is. Anything to make the U.S. look bad.

                      Poll: Americans Say Release of 'Torture' Report Hurts US More Than 'Torture' Itself


                      http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...rture-n1931161
                      Al least the women have some good sense, as indicated by that poll. The 24 percent are probably conservative Christians. I say this after listened to some right wing religious talk radio this week. I was astounded at the guy who heads one of these radio shows being so unchristian in his beliefs in regards to torture. And all of the right wing callers agreed with torture. The one guy was was republican and didn't agree, was screamed over, so he couldn't make his point, and hung up on. LOL

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                      • #26
                        Some of you are doing exactly what the democrats hoped you'd do when they released the report.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                          Some of you are doing exactly what the democrats hoped you'd do when they released the report.

                          What?
                          Discussing it?
                          I thought the republicans were all about transparency of government and getting to the bottom of any wrongdoing it's what they claim when they bang on continually about Benghazi.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post


                            What?
                            Discussing it?
                            I thought the republicans were all about transparency of government and getting to the bottom of any wrongdoing it's what they claim when they bang on continually about Benghazi.
                            No. it was discussed to death several years ago when the use of EIT first surfaced. It was beaten as a dead horse when Congress said we don't use EIT anymore. There is absolutely no logical reason this partisan report was released NOW other than to obfuscate other missteps this administration and his party have made recently. IT is a continuation of their "never let a good crisis go to waste." So Diane Feinstein used her committee chairmanship to an inglorious end: Hide this administrations malfeasance by getting people to focus on something else.


                            You have been duped.

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