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Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

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  • Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

    The average person has heard a lot in recent years about the "individual mandate" and "mandated insurance".

    The plan was derived in the early 1990's when America was battling over health care reform.

    One proponent wanted universal, single-payer, while the other proposed the individual mandate.

    Why did conservatives originally propose the mandate? Why are they against it now? What are their health care reform alternatives?

  • #2
    Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

    Originally posted by Jason Marcel View Post
    The average person has heard a lot in recent years about the "individual mandate" and "mandated insurance".

    The plan was derived in the early 1990's when America was battling over health care reform.

    One proponent wanted universal, single-payer, while the other proposed the individual mandate.

    Why did conservatives originally propose the mandate? Why are they against it now? What are their health care reform alternatives?
    Nixon was the first to propose it, then the GOP resurrected it as their alternative to HillaryCare, but HillaryCare was defeated without the need for an alternative.
    Obama put the individual mandate into law and that is why the GOP opposes it, they understand that once ACA is fully implemented it will become single payer Medicare for all.
    They also understand that it will be immensely popular, and impossible to repeal once it gets to that point.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

      It had to do with 'personal responsibility', which we now know only applies to liberals, not conservatives.


      In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. "It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time."

      The 'Free-Rider Effect'

      Pauly, a conservative health economist at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, says it wasn't just his idea. Back in the late 1980s — when Democrats were pushing not just a requirement for employers to provide insurance, but also the possibility of a government-sponsored single-payer system — "a group of economists and health policy people, market-oriented, sat down and said, 'Let's see if we can come up with a health reform proposal that would preserve a role for markets but would also achieve universal coverage.' "

      The idea of the individual mandate was about the only logical way to get there, Pauly says. That's because even with the most generous subsidies or enticements, "there would always be some Evel Knievels of health insurance, who would decline coverage even if the subsidies were very generous, and even if they could afford it, quote unquote, so if you really wanted to close the gap, that's the step you'd have to take."

      One reason the individual mandate appealed to conservatives is because it called for individual responsibility to address what economists call the "free-rider effect." That's the fact that if a person is in an accident or comes down with a dread disease, that person is going to get medical care, and someone is going to pay for it.

      "We called this responsible national health insurance," says Pauly. "There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn't be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens."

      Republicans Spurn Once-Favored Health Mandate

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

        That's a great question. The problem with conservative Republicans is that when Democrats proposed health care reform, Republicans did not say, "We agree that everyone in the U.S. should have access to health care, but we want it done differently"--they said "Let's defeat Obama's agenda."

        So if the Republicans want to overturn health care reform--either through legislation or through activist judges--we must demand that they replace it with similar guarantees of patients' rights.

        For research proving that patients without insurance are more likely to die than those with insurance, please visit:
        Plain Honest Truth: Don’t Repeal Without Replacing

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

          Because most conservative leaders (at least as embodied in the Republican party) are just as eager to expand government power as liberals.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

            Originally posted by dblack View Post
            Because most conservative leaders (at least as embodied in the Republican party) are just as eager to expand government power as liberals.
            Do you ever get the feeling the D's and R's play good cop/bad cop where government expands at every turn?

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

              Originally posted by goober View Post
              Nixon was the first to propose it, then the GOP resurrected it as their alternative to HillaryCare, but HillaryCare was defeated without the need for an alternative.
              Obama put the individual mandate into law and that is why the GOP opposes it, they understand that once ACA is fully implemented it will become single payer Medicare for all.
              They also understand that it will be immensely popular, and impossible to repeal once it gets to that point.
              Interestingly enough, Ted Kennedy and other liberal Democrats rejected the Nixon idea because they thought they would get what they actually wanted in the next election.

              What policies get proposed when, and whether they get through Congress has as much to do with the political moment as the merits of the legislation itself. Liberals would gladly have accepted the Nixon plan if a Republican president proposed it today, but back then, it seemed like less than they could get if they waited. Likewise, conservatives favored the individual mandate in 1993 because they needed an alternative to Hillarycare. This was not only strategic, the Republicans would have passed the plan if Clinton had called their bluff. But Clinton wanted more.

              Then along comes 2009, and the Democrats have finally moved towards accepting the individual mandate instead of single payer. Except there's one problem. Since the 1993 fight, a lot of conservative think tanks had done research and determined that an individual mandate was probably not consistent with conservative interpretations of the constitution.

              There's a double standard at work here as well. Candidate Obama opposed the individual mandate. He's allowed to change his mind, without having given a reason to do so other than politics, and republicans can't, even though 16 years and numerous studies on the individual mandate had been done?

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                As others have said - it's an idea that should resonate with republicans perhaps even more than with democrats, but because democrats were the ones who proposed it...

                I'm waiting for the first real argument against it. The only argument that would be logical, even if silly, is that they would rather see people depend on government programs and free care paid through everyone else's tax money than have people mandated to buy insurance. They know that makes no sense so they are playing the "fear the government takeover" card instead.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                  Originally posted by poliblogs View Post
                  As others have said - it's an idea that should resonate with republicans perhaps even more than with democrats, but because democrats were the ones who proposed it...

                  I'm waiting for the first real argument against it. The only argument that would be logical, even if silly, is that they would rather see people depend on government programs and free care paid through everyone else's tax money than have people mandated to buy insurance. They know that makes no sense so they are playing the "fear the government takeover" card instead.
                  I oppose it for two major reasons, one practical, the other constitutional.

                  First of all, it doesn't address the most important problem with health care, which is out of control health care inflation. In fact, most analyses conclude it will make health care inflation worse. Worse yet, it actively interferes with people taking meaningful action to address the problem of health care inflation by forcing them into the dysfunctional model that is fueling it. Insurance is the core of the problem and PPACA forces all of us to board the same sinking ship.

                  Second, the individual mandate represents a radical expansion of corporatist government, sacrificing individual freedom in the process. It essentially creates a tax to be paid directly to the insurance industry. It accelerates the growing trend of incorporating government power with private business interests. If the insurance industry can lobby DC to mandate themselves customers, I'm certain other industries will attempt to do likewise, with the PPACA as a prime precedent. The mandate takes away the most important right a consumer has in a free market: the right to say "no" to a product or service when they don't believe it's worth the money.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                    Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?
                    Easy answer, because it played into the health insurance business model allowing more room for profit. Back before Democrats wanted the mandate, Republicans knew what the model needed to look like for good profit room and keep this a private industry. It is simple math, something that Republicans that oppose Obamacare now will never admit. Understand that when Republicans wanted the Mandate it had nothing to do with better healthcare for all, it was simple application of distribution of costs onto more people paying for it. It is true of any service or product that functions the same. In this case, the best business model for private healthcare insurance companies is one in which those that are sick are paid for by as many other people as possible.

                    The mandate solves that concern. In other words, it would have been a government mandate for the express purpose of ensuring a profit.

                    The real issue here is Obamacare does the same thing anyway. All things considered the benefit of Obamacare mostly goes to private insurance companies. More people have to have insurance now, the distribution of healthcare costs has more people to pay for it. Note, under Obamacare actual healthcare for everyone is not improved, nor does Obamacare ensure any degree of improved efficiency, nor does Obamacare lower the cost for anyone. Just distribution of still rising costs (in many forms, some new, when thinking in terms of what will be subsidized by tax payers for those that cannot afford it) across more players by force.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                      Does it matter? Seriously how many of you actually have not changed your mind on anything or with further information and critical thinking decided your first impulse or decision was wrong for whatever reason? I doubt one person alive has not changed their mind at least once in their life.

                      Which means it also possible that at least some Republicans and Conservatives thought it was a good idea initially but then re-examined it and changed their minds.

                      Now I have no problem dropping a $5 of $10 or when I have it in my pocket as much as $20 on the local beggar I pass every day but I dig my heals in on my money taken at gun point of the government to be given to some other person. That is borderline slavery. Additionally I read someone mentioned ACCESS to health care. One of the big lies is that people are turned away. By law for many decades a Public Hospital must accept indigent patients. I am proof of that. When I was 25 I suffered a severe fever over the course of a week. My friends finally dragged me to the emergency room where despite my low income at the time I was treated properly given medication all without having to pay a penny. So this lie that people do not have health care continues even though the truth is otherwise. That is also one reason the States with high illegal numbers also have high budgets covering Hospitals for the Emergency Room care. Also the sad thing is that people will run to the ER everytime their kid has a sniffle. When I grew up my Mother or Grandmother would feel my forehead, give me a couple of childrens aspirin and make sure I was tucked into bed to sleep. I would get soup, vicks on my chest to break up the congestion. I never went to the ER as a child till I cut my hand open and needed stitches once. The next time was a broken collar bone. These idiots who cannot figure out a warm bed, soup and a couple aspirin for a cold or lots of liquids and aspirin for a fever is all you need.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                        Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                        Does it matter? Seriously how many of you actually have not changed your mind on anything or with further information and critical thinking decided your first impulse or decision was wrong for whatever reason? I doubt one person alive has not changed their mind at least once in their life.

                        Which means it also possible that at least some Republicans and Conservatives thought it was a good idea initially but then re-examined it and changed their minds.

                        Now I have no problem dropping a $5 of $10 or when I have it in my pocket as much as $20 on the local beggar I pass every day but I dig my heals in on my money taken at gun point of the government to be given to some other person. That is borderline slavery. Additionally I read someone mentioned ACCESS to health care. One of the big lies is that people are turned away. By law for many decades a Public Hospital must accept indigent patients. I am proof of that. When I was 25 I suffered a severe fever over the course of a week. My friends finally dragged me to the emergency room where despite my low income at the time I was treated properly given medication all without having to pay a penny. So this lie that people do not have health care continues even though the truth is otherwise. That is also one reason the States with high illegal numbers also have high budgets covering Hospitals for the Emergency Room care. Also the sad thing is that people will run to the ER everytime their kid has a sniffle. When I grew up my Mother or Grandmother would feel my forehead, give me a couple of childrens aspirin and make sure I was tucked into bed to sleep. I would get soup, vicks on my chest to break up the congestion. I never went to the ER as a child till I cut my hand open and needed stitches once. The next time was a broken collar bone. These idiots who cannot figure out a warm bed, soup and a couple aspirin for a cold or lots of liquids and aspirin for a fever is all you need.
                        Yea, conservatives changed their minds...personal responsibility is just something they SAY as a defense against liberals, but they don't really mean it should ever apply to them.

                        Do you seriously believe no one paid for your hospital visit or no one pays for people who show up or are brought into the emergency room? Do you even know who pays for it?

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                          Frank Lee Pain
                          So if the Republicans want to overturn health care reform--either through legislation or through activist judges--we must demand that they replace it with similar guarantees of patients' rights.
                          How about this for a guarantee, YOU get what YOU pay for, and I get what I pay for, and neither of us is expected to pay for one another.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                            People who aren't very strategic or particularly deep in their thinking look at the genesis and relative support for the " individual mandate" seem to think that it is hypocrisy, rather than more the case of at any given moment taking the position that will reflect the most viable route to the preferred (or least undesirable) outcome.

                            In an ideal world, conservatives would prefer to leave healthcare to the free market, which would undoubtedly result in the most effective delivery of goods and services to the most people, for the widest level of satisfaction. However, largely since the ill-conceived (by liberals) price controls of WWII let to the tremendous rise of third-party payment for not just healthcare, but health insurance, the market has been incredibly distorted by idiotic government policies.

                            In rational world, people would have no incentive to receive their compensation in any form but monetary, and then you would purchse those other things for yourself.

                            Comprehensive health insurance simply would not exist in a rational marketplace. It is the equivalent of buying auto insurance that covers every time you fill up your tank, get your oil changed, or change your tires. It is not the purpose of insurance (which is the pooling of risk). If you know that, on average, everyone should expect to spend X amount on healthcare in their lifetimes, than insurance covereage should BEGIN for coverage of out-of pocket expenses ABOVE that amount, or for unbudgetable spikes in costs. It used to be called "Major Medical".

                            In addition to all of this, we also have laws requiring people to get treated, and in many instances laws that prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage for various (otherwise rational reasons) which conservatives oppose as well. It is in THAT context, proposals that would enable destroy the insurance industry by allowing people to wait until they have become sick to purchase insurance, and then force insureres to not only accept them as customers, but provide for goods and services that they have never truly paid for in any rational economic sense to anyone who understands the underlying principle of insurance. It would be like allowing homeowners to call and get fire insurance the day AFTER their home burned down and force the insurance company to not only take their business, but pay for the rebuilding of the house that has already burned down.

                            So, if we are going to have such an assinine requirement imposed, the only rational thing to do is to require that people buy insurance up front to avoid the ridiculously obvious consequences thereof.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Why Did Conservatives Originally Propose a Mandate?

                              Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post
                              How about this for a guarantee, YOU get what YOU pay for, and I get what I pay for, and neither of us is expected to pay for one another.
                              That would be awesome. Banning health insurance companies from operating within the United States would tank the costs of healthcare pretty quickly.

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