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  • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

    Historic decision today...But what really was decided?

    The ACA is really just another piece of legislation. It is just bigger and more costly than most, bringing us one giant step closer to full on Socialism.

    What really happened today was a opening of the door to more "taxes" or "penalties". I cannot penalize you for not "choosing" to have health insurance, but I can tax you. And by the way, now that I understand that I can tax you for not buying something; I am going to tax you some more. Oh, you didn't by a GM car...give me $10,000.

    Pick up the paper for the past few years and all you have is the play by play of the destruction of the USA.


    • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

      Well for the first time, a law is upheld that taxes you for simply being alive and a citizen of these united States.

      Does it really matter, hasn't Obama already signed off exemptions for most of the population in one for or another anyways?


      • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

        Im trying to figure this ruling out.

        So, the court decided there was no infringement on the commerce clause because the penalty for NOT ENGAGING IN COMMERCE can be considered a tax.

        Is that not still compelling people to engage in commerce---or is it my imagination?


        • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

          I like the Republican plan first you get sick; then you die.


          • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

            Originally posted by jviehe View Post
            And those few people will by no means offset the increase in cost created by the rest of the ACA. Not to mention the people that drop coverage because the tax is cheaper than buying insurance.

            - - - Updated - - -

            I dont see how thats a problem. Its in my interest for you not to kill me or steal my stuff, which is why libertarians are not anarchists.
            The fact that the ACA provides the motivation to drop healthcare coverage, as an unintended consequence I'm sure, has been long identified.

            Philip Bredesen: ObamaCare's Incentive to Drop Insurance -

            This tells me that, once again, the legislators wrote poor legislation. They should really stick to the KISS principal. It's about all they can manage.


            • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
              Well yeah, although you and I would disagree on what "living under the gov't" entails. I think average people want living wage jobs and some damn dignity. You think they want free shit and sit on their asses, just "getting by" with no hope for a better future.

              I think the economy has been turned over to special interests and its destroying america, you think more should be turned over. You think the collateral damage of this should not be tempered with social safety nets, while I think the opposite, while never forgetting a living wage JOB is what our working people want instead of a social safety net that keep you poor for the rest of your life.

              But we probably agree on one thing. The longer you replace jobs with social safety nets you start to train the dogs to come to the food bowl. And that is the great danger here.
              Seen thee new food stamp ads/program ?


              • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                Originally posted by scott1094 View Post
                Pick up the paper for the past few years and all you have is the play by play of the destruction of the USA.
                What do you mean by "the last few years"?

                Because unless you're including things like the militarization of American law enforcement in the name of "War on Drugs" and the shreding of the Constitution that we like to call the "Patriot Act", among a great deal else, I'd be inclined to laugh at you.

                This recent legislation just gave the government a new excuse to tax us.

                All that previous bullshit gave the government permission to spy on you via a sattelite in orbit and then send police on a no-knock 3 am raid of your house using cutting edge military grade weapons all to snatch you up and send you to a secret detention facility somewhere without charges.

                I'd say that a new tax is the lest of our worries.


                • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                  Originally posted by redrover View Post
                  I like the Republican plan first you get sick; then you die.
                  Do you really think some sick people won't be excluded under Obamacare?

                  Healthcare won't magically become an infinite resource just because the government is involved.


                  • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                    The ruling is great!..........[note to Danny] we're going from people who can't afford insurance to people who can't afford insurance and will have to pay that's PROGRESS! A lot of people are in for a rude awakening when they find out that even though they can't afford HC insurance they don't qualify to get it free. Free hardships from your friendly federal government!


                    • Re: Individual Mandate / Obamacare Stands as Tax

                      This is a political defeat for conservatives but a huge doctrinal win. They'll be writing about the politics of this one for a century.

                      Roberts could have joined the conservatives in striking down the whole law.But he's the Chief Justice, he was worried about the court's legitimacy. So is it beyond the realm of possibility that he went to the liberal justices and gave them a path to uphold the law, but in return they had to sign on to new limits on federal power?

                      If you look deeper into the decision, the new commerce clause limitations and the new limitations on the use of federal funds to coerce states are huge deals. Roberts basically re-imposed some pre-New Deal era jurisprudence, and he did it with the cooperation of the liberals, who were eager to save ACA. Brilliantly played.


                      • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                        I'm late to the party here, but I'll just give my two cents really quick: I'm very happy. It was a defeat for conservatives on the politics, but a huge win on judicial doctrine. The law was upheld strictly as a tax and specifically declared impermissible under the commerce clause. In addition, the Medicaid portion was partially struck down on federalism grounds. These are huge decisions that will limit federal power forever.


                        • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                          Originally posted by darth omar View Post
                          Do you really think some sick people won't be excluded under Obamacare?

                          Healthcare won't magically become an infinite resource just because the government is involved.
                          Quite the contrary. With the government involved, and the associated overhead costs of that, it'll get more expensive for less service. Of that I'm certain.

                          Just have to remember. The types of people in the government that we just gave such incredibly intrusive power to are the same people that thought that these things were good ideas.

                          #1 New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has announced that he wants to ban the sale of all large sodas and sugary drinks in order to fight obesity.

                          #2 In North Carolina, authorities are threatening to send a blogger to prison for blogging about his battle against diabetes.

                          #3 In San Francisco, if you do not recycle your trash correctly you can be fined up to $500.

                          #4 The following are just some of the cities that have started using RFID tracking chips to monitor the recycling habits of their citizens.
                          Cleveland, Ohio Charlotte
                          North Carolina
                          Alexandria, Virginia
                          Boise, Idaho
                          Dayton, Ohio
                          Flint, Michigan

                          #5 In Minnetonka, Minnesota you can be fined up to $2,000 for having a muddy vehicle.

                          #6 In Hazelwood, Missouri it is against the law for little girls to sell girl scout cookies in front of their own homes.

                          #7 San Francisco has implemented a ban on Happy Meal toys.

                          #8 Over the past couple of years there have been quite a few instances all over the country where lemonade stands run by children have been shut down by police because the children had not acquired the proper permits.

                          #9 State legislatures all over the country have been passing legislation making it more difficult for parents to opt out of having their children vaccinated.

                          #10 In many U.S. states is it now illegal to collect any rain that falls on to your own property.

                          #11 In San Juan Capistrano, California it is against the law to hold a home Bible study without a conditional use permit.

                          #12 In New York City, it is against the law to smoke at public parks and beaches.

                          #13 In California,food confiscation teams visit the homes of people that have been discovered to have purchased raw milk.

                          #14 In Hilton Head, South Carolina it is illegal to have trash in your car.

                          #15 In major cities all over the United States feeding the homeless has been banned due to health reasons.

                          #16 In Louisiana, one church was ordered to stop passing out water because it did not have the proper permit.

                          #17 At public schools all over the United States, the lunches that little children bring from home are now inspected to make sure that they meet USDA guidelines. One North Carolina girl was told her turkey and cheese sandwich, banana, potato chips and apple juice did not meet USDA guidelines.

                          #18 Today, a vast array of government agencies are constantly monitoring what all of us say and do on the Internet. They claim that this helps makes us all more safe and secure.

                          18 Crazy Examples America is Turning Into A Nanny State - Independent Journal Review
                          You'd think that all this micromanagement would lack some sort of appeal to those creatures that inhabit government at all levels. This list clearly shows that this is not so. Not so at all.

                          I can only see a tidal wave of more and more of the same coming down from on high, as it were.

                          I'm sure that all you pro 'big government' people are just as happy as pigs in shit.


                          • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                            Originally posted by adaher View Post
                            I'm late to the party here, but I'll just give my two cents really quick: I'm very happy. It was a defeat for conservatives on the politics, but a huge win on judicial doctrine. The law was upheld strictly as a tax and specifically declared impermissible under the commerce clause. In addition, the Medicaid portion was partially struck down on federalism grounds. These are huge decisions that will limit federal power forever.
                            Maybe you can explain, in years to come, to people who STILL can't afford insurance and will have to pay penalties how great it is and what a "win" it was.


                            • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                              The law can still be repealed if Republicans can convince the public to give them the power to do so in 2012. It's not SCOTUS's job to judge the merits of a law. Roberts determined the law was a tax, but he disallowed it under the commerce clause. That's a big win.


                              • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                                Originally posted by darth omar View Post
                                Im trying to figure this ruling out.

                                So, the court decided there was no infringement on the commerce clause because the penalty for NOT ENGAGING IN COMMERCE can be considered a tax.

                                Is that not still compelling people to engage in commerce---or is it my imagination?
                                The court ruled two government theories: one being the Commerce Clause and/or Necessary and Proper Clause, and rejecting it ; the other being the right to lay and collect taxes, and upholding it. Even if the only purpose of a tax is to force people to buy health insurance, it's still a tax. They have a few pages where they explain their reasoning in details, and it adds up.
                                Apparently the Constitution wasn't Obama-proof.