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SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

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  • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

    Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
    Since Obamacare was passed my insurance rates went up, twice, AND now I have a deductible that I did not have before. I did the math and it is costing almost $2000 more a year for my insurance now. I am diabetic and go to the doctor 4 times a year minimum, plus eye doctor, dentist and other miscellaneous due to diabetes related issues. As I stated before my insulin pump will no longer be covered as of 2014 and if I buy one out of pocket they will refuse to supply me with insulin which means I go back to the spiky graph of my sugar highs and lows by using a needle to induce insulin into my body.
    That sucks, man. My dad has diabetes and I know full well the swings that you get when you have to use the needle. He has a pump now, too, and it's a lot better. I definitely did not like having to try and get him to drink orange juice when his blood sugar dropped too low.

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    • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

      Originally posted by Jason Marcel View Post
      Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

      That's what you get for being you.
      Why do you keep saying those words? I do not think it means what you think it means.

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      • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

        Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
        ahoy Ericams me friend,

        not to interrupt yer thunder and fury, but i wanted to add this;

        PBS- Healthcare Crisis: Healthcare Timeline

        that would be the reality 50 years ago, me friend.

        - MeadHallPirate
        And the problem is, you still didn't have a free market. Granted, much more "free" than today, but still not free, especially when you take the economy as a whole. Not only did you have government attempting and in some cases succeeding in interfering in the health insurance/care industry even then, you also had one massive problem that increased the prices of EVERYTHING from gasoline, to food, to yes health insurance and care costs: the printing of massive amounts of money by the Central Bank and putting that into circulation. ANY economy with a Central Bank IS NOT BY DEFINITION A FREE MARKET and inevitably everything within that economy is subject to the Central Bank's monetary policy, health industry included. Price increased because of the government printing a bunch of money and circulating it...as it has many times since 1913. Every time that happens, prices jump, even if slowly at first, they jump. Then in the 60's we had massive intervention in the health industry. The price of all this stuff truly started to sky rocket after Medicare/Medicaid and numerous regulations were passed through the 70's and 80's, state laws included.
        Last edited by ericams2786; 06-28-2012, 08:48 PM.

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        • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

          Originally posted by jpn View Post
          So..."substantiate" how I'm wrong.

          "Substance" means "substantial." As in actions, not words.

          Waiting...
          Emergency care is rendered to those without health insurance in the emergency room, up to a point. Medically, I believe the emergency room is charged with stabilizing the patient, and not letting them die in the streets. This, I believe, is mandated by unfunded congressional edict, and is complied with, lest those that don't, end up with a very expensive civil law suite, which some lawyer would easily take on a deferred comp. or pro-bono.

          And why should I give a rat's if you have to wait.

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          • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

            Originally posted by adaher View Post
            I agree with that completely, but if you look at the politics of the issue, Roberts played this one brilliantly. He didn't want the court to strike down the whole law because as Chief Justice he was worried about the reputation of the court. By forcing four liberal justices to endorse limits on the commerce clause and federal power to coerce using federal funds, he actually pulled of a tremendous coup.
            Ummm....SCOTUS members are appointed for life for the specific purpose of making them not care what people think about them.

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            • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

              Originally posted by jpn View Post
              Yeah, the free market is so perfect and magical that if it isn't working in some area of the economy, then it must be due to some exterior influence, like that dern govmint.
              Sheesh. :rolleyes:
              Thanks for the retarded straw man that EVERY liberal on the planet resorts to when confronted with the fact they can NEVER refute: the fact that there is no free market in the US. All your arguments boil down to blaming the free market and when you are confronted with the fact that only government interference and regulation actually exist, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU turn on the "oh the free market is magical and a utopia" bullshit straw man. Good job. I NEVER fucking once said the free market was perfect. In fact it is not. If you actually read or paid any fucking attention to what I've posted, you would very clearly see I've already alluded to this fact. I simply said I believe it is the BEST and most EFFICIENT way of achieving the best possible outcome in healthcare for the MOST people. I never once said it was fucking perfect. See we simply just disagree on how to get to the above statement. I believe in individuals, you in the government, and that is fine, that is what debate is for, not stupid straw men.

              Here, I'll say it again and maybe you'll actually comprehend it:

              NO HUMAN INSTITUTION IS PERFECT. THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT PERFECT. THE FREE MARKET IS NOT PERFECT. SOCIALISM IS NOT PERFECT. FASCISM IN NOT PERFECT. DEMOCRACY IS NOT PERFECT. NO HUMAN IS PERFECT. NOTHING CREATED BY A HUMAN IS PERFECT. NO POLICY OR GOVERNMENT OR DOCUMENT CREATED BY A HUMAN IS PERFECT. YES ONCE AGAIN EVEN THE FUCKING FREE MARKET IS NOT PERFECT.

              Having said that, we don't have a free market in this country so how the hell do you KNOW for CERTAIN that a free market WOULDN'T work better than government regulation and interference. How do you actually KNOW, objectively. In fact, once again, PROVE IT. Prove the free market is the problem. Please, prove that a nonexistent thing is the CAUSE of all our healthcare woes and the price being retarded expensive.

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              • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                perfect or not (probably not) I'd settle for just most effective, which in my mind includes efficient. i'll put my bets with the free make on that one.

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                • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                  Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
                  Dude....this was a Democrat effort. It's called "Obamacare" for a reason. Is you're mind fucking exploding because of this regressive tax being pushed by Democrats due to cognitive dissidence?
                  I should clarify my statement. While this is obviously a victory for big government dems, its also a big victory for big government republicans who can now freely pass mandates and call them taxes ... once they regain congressional/presidential power.

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                  • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                    Originally posted by ericams2786 View Post
                    I'm not even going to say that the increases in health insurance that you see from year to year isn't a "collusion of healthcare/insurance providers", but I refuse to believe that such a thing, at least as we see it in today's world, could occur in a true free market; it simply could not, the companies in question would go out of business if they did such a thing. The collusion that occurs is that these very few insurance companies get together and lobby the government for protection from competition, er I mean "regulation" so they can increase prices at will. They do after all have a monopoly, hence why they can do that. I understand where liberals are coming from on this whole health insurance/health care cost stuff, in fact on the surface you guys almost sound correct...until you actually look at the history of the issue and cold hard facts. They you discover that health insurance and health care have sky-rocketed...because of government interference. The problem is, you guys attack the symptom, not the disease. You always go after costs and outrageous "profits" while ignoring WHY the costs are so high and WHY the "outrageous" profits and "big [insert industry here] business" comes from in the first place - and I can assure you it does not come from TRUE Capitalism with ACTUAL competition and a free market. It is a result of "State Capitalism" or more accurately - Fascism.
                    So you're saying that the 1000% mark ups commonly seen in healthcare are legitimate and due to the costs of regulation? And not at all due to the lack of regulation on these mark ups? And please don't tell me that 1000% mark ups don't exist. I see them ALL the time. When my mother in law was in the hospital last month, she had a physical therapy evaluation that lasted 15 minutes. The therapist that did the eval used to work for me, so I know a solid ball park of what she makes per hour. The $590 that was charged for the evaluation was more like a 3000% mark up for the provider. What kind of regulation could possible justify that mark up? And $18,000 for two pints of blood? Really? That was due solely to regulation? Maybe if there was a regulation that a team of 10 doctors had to witness the entire transfusion from start to finish one might be able to blame that mark up solely on regulation.
                    Last edited by Unique POV; 06-28-2012, 10:30 PM.

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                    • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                      Originally posted by lutherf View Post
                      Yeah, the health care lobby is a biggie. Why do you think that is? Could it possibly be because of the intense regulation of absolutely everything involving medical care? Could it be because insurance reimbursements are tied at the hip to medicare?
                      Medicare reimbursements are cut every year. Some years, like this past year, the cuts are HUGE... yet healthcare in general still went up. It is inaccurate to say that reimbursements are directly tied when private reimbursements are steadily rising even as Medicare reimbursements are dropping precipitously.

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                      • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                        Originally posted by Jason Marcel View Post
                        Health care isn't broccoli.

                        In a totally private system, there should be no freeloaders. The bum down the street must be insured. When that person isn't, that's when the costs go up on the rest of us.

                        No free riders. No free lunches.

                        Used to be a conservative principle, but now we're watching conservatives walk that back after this. I just don't get it.
                        That is one of the dumbest things that you have ever posted.

                        "The bum down the street" cannot afford to pay for his insurance, so whether he is insured or not is pointless.

                        If he is uninsured, we take care of him, and the system spreads the cost to the rest of us.

                        If he is insured, he can't pay for the cost of the insurance, and the system spreads the cost to the rest of us.

                        Either way, he is a freeloader.

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                        • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                          It is pretty contradictory to complain about freeloaders while adding millions to Medicaid.

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                          • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                            Originally posted by Unique POV View Post
                            I'm sorry for you. That is unfortunate. Hopefully issues like yours will be worked out sooner rather than later, but it's not unusual that a few will be negatively impacted by new policies while others benefit. My insurance became free to me this year. I do have a $2500 deductible now that I didn't have before, and it won't pay for a thing until I go over that deductible; but I'll only hit my deductible if I become pretty ill. Since preventative screenings now have no copay and I don't take any prescription meds... I'll likely not have to pay a dime out of pocket for healthcare this year. Knock on wood. I'm thinking the $1700 that I save this year will more than pay for a small tax on my tampons.

                            On the plus side... if you should for any reason lose your current insurance due to changing jobs or what have you... you can not be turned down for new insurance on the basis of your health. By the sounds of it... that could have been a very real possibility for you in the past.
                            Second paragraph is a load of horseshit.

                            I have had diabetes for 15 years. I HAVE NEVER BEEN DENIED HEALTH INSURANCE at a new job. The most common reason someone is denied/cancelled is that they did NOT disclose that they had some illness OR did not want to pay a higher premium as a result of that illness. I know people who had cancer and transferred jobs and did NOT get denied. One acquaintance I worked with had stage 3 pancreas cancer and was NOT denied health insurance and only paid 5% more than I was paying. I have even been without health insurance of any kind for 6 months before getting a new job and insurance and wasn't denied even though I had diabetes.

                            No one is denied health CARE in this country before ACA. Health Insurance is a whole other ballgame and if you pay the premiums they will insure you.

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                            • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                              Interestingly the IRS has a whole page on the taxes in the ACA. There are 26 different taxes.

                              Affordable Care Act Tax Provisions

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                              • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                                Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                                Second paragraph is a load of horseshit.

                                I have had diabetes for 15 years. I HAVE NEVER BEEN DENIED HEALTH INSURANCE at a new job. The most common reason someone is denied/cancelled is that they did NOT disclose that they had some illness OR did not want to pay a higher premium as a result of that illness. I know people who had cancer and transferred jobs and did NOT get denied. One acquaintance I worked with had stage 3 pancreas cancer and was NOT denied health insurance and only paid 5% more than I was paying. I have even been without health insurance of any kind for 6 months before getting a new job and insurance and wasn't denied even though I had diabetes.

                                No one is denied health CARE in this country before ACA. Health Insurance is a whole other ballgame and if you pay the premiums they will insure you.
                                I take this as a real life example of how the private market based healthcare insurance really is working. Imagine, stage 3 pancreatic cancer and only 5% more in premium expenses. Seems to me that this is an effective and efficient system.

                                Originally posted by jviehe View Post
                                Interestingly the IRS has a whole page on the taxes in the ACA. There are 26 different taxes.

                                Affordable Care Act Tax Provisions
                                I'll wager that most of them are all on the middle class (can't check at his moment). Thanks president Obama. Destroyer of the middle class, in-spite of all the promises that you've made.

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