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SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

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  • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

    I went and read the opinion and admittingly I overreacted. I'm still very disapointed but I understand now why the mandate was upheld. I didn't realize that the solicitor general had also asked the court to review weather or not the mandate could be upheld as a tax. It appears that Kennedy was correct in striking down the mandate under the commerce clause and upholding ig, unfortunately, as a tax. I don't blame the court for it's decision. The decision was correct. But what pisses me off about the tax issue is that Obama swore it was not a tax and that it wouldn't be but then the POS orderes the SG to present it as a tax before the court. What a piece of garbage. If Obama had any entegrity at all he would have left the tax issue alone since he swore it wasn't a tax to start with.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

      Originally posted by AdamKadmon View Post
      That's what the Obama administration said; the Supreme Court disagreed. Personally, I never got hung up on the distinction.



      Romney, as usual, is trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, he has vowed to keep in place some popular provisions of the ACA. For instance, he said that we've "got to make sure that those people who have pre-existing conditions know that they will be able to be insured and they will not lose their insurance." But on the other hand, he wants to get rid of the individual mandate, which is what pays for the popular provisions of the ACA (such as making sure people with pre-existing conditions cannot be denied coverage). My assumption is that he is hoping voters won't notice the contradiction until after the election and he'll cross that bridge then.
      The penalty would never cover the ACA as is encourages people not to pay it. Rather the revenue provisions, actual taxes, pay for it. In the end, the rich will pay for it, through general income taxes, like everything else.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

        Originally posted by Invisible-Bob View Post
        I went and read the opinion and admittingly I overreacted. I'm still very disapointed but I understand now why the mandate was upheld. I didn't realize that the solicitor general had also asked the court to review weather or not the mandate could be upheld as a tax. It appears that Kennedy was correct in striking down the mandate under the commerce clause and upholding ig, unfortunately, as a tax. I don't blame the court for it's decision. The decision was correct. But what pisses me off about the tax issue is that Obama swore it was not a tax and that it wouldn't be but then the POS orderes the SG to present it as a tax before the court. What a piece of garbage. If Obama had any entegrity at all he would have left the tax issue alone since he swore it wasn't a tax to start with.
        The tax has nothing to do with whether the govt can require a citizen to buy a product. They dont, its not in the constitution by any stretch. So its irrational to claim they can then penalize you for not doing something you cant be required to do.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

          Originally posted by Invisible-Bob View Post
          I went and read the opinion and admittingly I overreacted. I'm still very disapointed but I understand now why the mandate was upheld. I didn't realize that the solicitor general had also asked the court to review weather or not the mandate could be upheld as a tax. It appears that Kennedy was correct in striking down the mandate under the commerce clause and upholding ig, unfortunately, as a tax. I don't blame the court for it's decision. The decision was correct. But what pisses me off about the tax issue is that Obama swore it was not a tax and that it wouldn't be but then the POS orderes the SG to present it as a tax before the court. What a piece of garbage. If Obama had any entegrity at all he would have left the tax issue alone since he swore it wasn't a tax to start with.
          Gee whiz. If private citizens did that to one another, it'd be a criminal fraud charge. However, when Obama, the chosen one, does it, it's dismissed as politics, and reported as such by the LSM. Yeah, how can we possibly vote for a president that does things such as this?

          Originally posted by jviehe View Post
          The penalty would never cover the ACA as is encourages people not to pay it. Rather the revenue provisions, actual taxes, pay for it. In the end, the rich will pay for it, through general income taxes, like everything else.
          Umm, from what I've heard, the ACA contains something on the order of 26 'tax' provisions, from tanning salons and god only knows what else. Just remember, all this contained in the bill which should have been voted for without being read.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

            Originally posted by Invisible-Bob View Post
            I went and read the opinion and admittingly I overreacted. I'm still very disapointed but I understand now why the mandate was upheld. I didn't realize that the solicitor general had also asked the court to review weather or not the mandate could be upheld as a tax. It appears that Kennedy was correct in striking down the mandate under the commerce clause and upholding ig, unfortunately, as a tax. I don't blame the court for it's decision. The decision was correct. But what pisses me off about the tax issue is that Obama swore it was not a tax and that it wouldn't be but then the POS orderes the SG to present it as a tax before the court. What a piece of garbage. If Obama had any entegrity at all he would have left the tax issue alone since he swore it wasn't a tax to start with.
            You're staying in the US?

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

              Originally posted by jviehe View Post
              The tax has nothing to do with whether the govt can require a citizen to buy a product. They dont, its not in the constitution by any stretch. So its irrational to claim they can then penalize you for not doing something you cant be required to do.
              No but it has to do with the fact that the government has the right to impose a tax and as Justice Roberts suggested in the opinion the government has a long precedence of using it's power to tax for the purpose of controling peoples behavior. Like it or not, I don't, the government can impose a tax on just about anything. I think congress should now change the tax laws to limit the governments power to tax strictly for the purpose of raising revenue. But that's up to the people to compel their politicians to change the law not the Supreme court. The court can only decided issues based on the rule of law.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                I didnt know so many thought forcing others to buy health insurance was more important then freedom........Thats just sad.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                  Originally posted by thanatos144 View Post
                  I didnt know so many thought forcing others to buy health insurance was more important then freedom........Thats just sad.
                  I am forced to pay for health care for illegals...That's just sad.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                    Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
                    I am forced to pay for health care for illegals...That's just sad.
                    So cause you have to pay taxes to cover some emergency care for some illegals you will get your revenge by making us pay more ?????? Are you fucking insane?

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                      Originally posted by thanatos144 View Post
                      So cause you have to pay taxes to cover some emergency care for some illegals you will get your revenge by making us pay more ?????? Are you fucking insane?
                      Do you, or your wife, pay for your own insurance (you are part-time) or does your employer pay?

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                        The scope of specialty knowledge require for health care create prohibitive prices.
                        In reality, whatever premiums we pay are not nearly enough to cover the cost of developing the industry.
                        For profits are doomed to failure unless they kick out 90% of the population, which they are doing bit by bit.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                          Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
                          Do you, or your wife, pay for your own insurance (you are part-time) or does your employer pay?
                          Me and my employer pays.....Thats not a tax by they thats a agreement we made at my hiring.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                            Originally posted by thanatos144 View Post
                            Me and my employer pays.....Thats not a tax by they thats a agreement we made at my hiring.
                            The tax penalty is bullsh!t but if you are in your 50s or older the outlay of coverage from your insurance provider is going to be way more than your premiums sooner than later.
                            In fact, when we were kids our parents didn't run to the doctor every week because we blinked the wrong way.
                            The fact is that people are using their health coverage from cradle to grave and the for profits have to start getting really picky if they're to stay in business.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                              Originally posted by thanatos144 View Post
                              I didnt know so many thought forcing others to buy health insurance was more important then freedom........Thats just sad.
                              As time passes you may gain the wisdom to develop understanding.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • Re: SCOTUS decision in ACA case - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

                                Originally posted by Invisible-Bob View Post
                                No but it has to do with the fact that the government has the right to impose a tax and as Justice Roberts suggested in the opinion the government has a long precedence of using it's power to tax for the purpose of controling peoples behavior. Like it or not, I don't, the government can impose a tax on just about anything. I think congress should now change the tax laws to limit the governments power to tax strictly for the purpose of raising revenue. But that's up to the people to compel their politicians to change the law not the Supreme court. The court can only decided issues based on the rule of law.
                                Sure they can propose a tax. They just cant impose a tax as a condition of you not doing something they cant make you do. IMO, of course. The USC obviously disagrees, but theyve been wrong before. This is equivalent to the govt saying if you say something bad about the govt, we will tax you, or, if you dont say the Pledge, we will tax you. The govt doesnt have the right to compel or restrict speech, thus they cant use other powers to get around it.

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