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Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

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  • Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

    It's a favorite conservative talking point: people who don't have health insurance do just fine by relying on hospital emergency rooms. Of course the conservatives who make this point for some reason never choose to save thousands a year by actually relying on hospital emergency rooms themselves.

    That's because it's a big lie conservatives use to cover over the fact that not insuring every citizen in the nation is immoral.

    Here's reality:

    A crane operator, Mr. Duran had been covered for years through his employer, but a simple paperwork oversight left him uninsured last year. Months later, he learned he had colon cancer, and spent roughly $7,000 on a colonoscopy and surgery a reduced rate using money he received from relatives and from selling some of his and his wifes jewelry, including a 14-karat gold medallion of Jesus Christ.

    When you dont have insurance, nobody listens to you, said Mr. Duran, 51, who had been making about $50,000 annually but is now on disability. Its a powerless feeling. You feel like youre an outcast. You feel that youre homeless without insurance.

  • #2
    Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

    It's also not a choice to not have insurance when you can't afford it any more than it's a choice to not buy a Ferrari. It's only a choice if you are wealthy enough to make it.

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    • #3
      Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

      jpn: thanks for proving the point that people would rather game the system and take the handout than you know actually make moeny and pay their bills:

      In an ordinary world, Josh Hebert would have accepted the raises his employer offered.

      But in the extraordinary world of the uninsured, he has not only turned down the pay increases at the bank where he works, but has twice asked for a pay cut — so that he and his wife’s ill 7-year-old daughter can qualify for government-sponsored children’s health insurance.

      By keeping his income low, he and his wife, Kyla, are able to ensure that their daughter continues to have health coverage. The parents remain uninsured themselves, like thousands of others in this working-class refinery town outside Houston. Thirty-three percent of the population here lacks medical insurance.

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      • #4
        Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

        Originally posted by tsquare View Post
        jpn: thanks for proving the point that people would rather game the system and take the handout than you know actually make moeny and pay their bills:
        The morons who support Obamacare don't have a freaking clue about what really goes on but they sure want to act like we're the idiots. The reason that Obamacare is even so popular is because we have a class of lazy fools who want to suck off the government's tit instead of trying improve themselves...but hey, they really don't give a shit that the country is going to hell in a handbasket because of their socialistic ideals....as long as they don't have to think for themselves, they're happy.

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        • #5
          Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

          Originally posted by jpn View Post
          It's a favorite conservative talking point: people who don't have health insurance do just fine by relying on hospital emergency rooms. Of course the conservatives who make this point for some reason never choose to save thousands a year by actually relying on hospital emergency rooms themselves.

          That's because it's a big lie conservatives use to cover over the fact that not insuring every citizen in the nation is immoral.

          Here's reality:
          Please post one quote where a conservative has said 'people do just fine by relying on emergency rooms' and that this is 'the same as health insurance'. Your premise is false.

          ?


          • #6
            Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

            Originally posted by Mrs. M View Post
            The morons who support Obamacare don't have a freaking clue about what really goes on but they sure want to act like we're the idiots. The reason that Obamacare is even so popular is because we have a class of lazy fools who want to suck off the government's tit instead of trying improve themselves...but hey, they really don't give a shit that the country is going to hell in a handbasket because of their socialistic ideals....as long as they don't have to think for themselves, they're happy.
            I just threw up on your beautiful white couch. (on purpose !)

            Your remarks seem a bit strong ! Guess I'm one of the morons !

            ?


            • #7
              Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

              Originally posted by Mrs. M View Post
              The morons who support Obamacare don't have a freaking clue about what really goes on but they sure want to act like we're the idiots. The reason that Obamacare is even so popular is because we have a class of lazy fools who want to suck off the government's tit instead of trying improve themselves...but hey, they really don't give a shit that the country is going to hell in a handbasket because of their socialistic ideals....as long as they don't have to think for themselves, they're happy.
              Are you saying that joining the World Trade Organization was a socialist idea?

              ?


              • #8
                Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                Originally posted by skeptic1 View Post
                I just threw up on your beautiful white couch. (on purpose !)

                Your remarks seem a bit strong ! Guess I'm one of the morons !
                I don't own a white couch....it's navy blue and right now I have two grandchildren and a kitten playing on it.

                I cannot believe that anyone, including some very educated, yet obviously very stupid relatives of mine, doesn't see how wrong Obamacare is. If you can afford to buy insurance and you don't, you'll pay a "tax". If you can't afford insurance, you can bypass the "tax" by claiming financial hardship AND you're still covered by Medicaid. How is that fair??? As far as that goes, how is it fair that before my promotion, my co-worker who made the same amount of money per hour that I did was able to get free healthcare through Medicaid, government subsidized housing, food stamps and child support for herself and her two teenage daughters and I qualified for nothing because my kids were grown? After my promotion, I was able to purchase insurance but I work my ass off (at least 60 hours/week) because I know that if I don't, the government isn't going to do anything to help a 51 y/o white widow who owns a house....that's the penalty for working your ass off for over 30 years.

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                • #9
                  Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                  Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
                  Are you saying that joining the World Trade Organization was a socialist idea?
                  If you wish to discuss the WTO, feel free to start a thread on it.

                  ?


                  • #10
                    Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                    Likewise, liberals say that health insurance is health care. And that governments guarantee that citizens get all the health care they need. both are dishonest.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                      Originally posted by adaher View Post
                      Likewise, liberals say that health insurance is health care. And that governments guarantee that citizens get all the health care they need. both are dishonest.
                      If ACA works as well as Medicare in terms of Health Care, I'm all for it.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                        Medicare as it is now, or Medicare as it has to be to be sustainable?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                          Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
                          If ACA works as well as Medicare in terms of Health Care, I'm all for it.
                          Medicare works so well that 80% of those with it buy more coverage with a supplemental policy.

                          ?


                          • #14
                            Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                            Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                            Medicare works so well that 80% of those with it buy more coverage with a supplemental policy.
                            Absolutely, and for my M-I-L Medicare covered over 90% of whatever happened because the hospital staff knew what they were doing.
                            Medicare is rather explicit about their coverage and unlike private health insurance hucksters doesn't change what it covers on a daily basis and doesn't deny MDS treatment.

                            ?


                            • #15
                              Re: Conservative Lie: Access to Hospitals is Same as Health Insurance

                              Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                              Medicare works so well that 80% of those with it buy more coverage with a supplemental policy.
                              Yep, Medicare is wonderful, isn't it?

                              Here's the Medicare premiums:

                              Type of Monthly Premium Amount of Monthly Premium

                              Part A monthly premium (for people who pay a premium) $451

                              Part A Late Enrollment Penalty +10%

                              Part B monthly premium $99.90 Higher-income consumers may pay more.

                              Part B Late Enrollment Penalty +10% for each full 12-month period that you could have had Part B, but didn't sign up for it

                              Part C monthly premium Varies by plan
                              Part D monthly premium Varies by plan
                              2012 Medicare Costs, Medicare.gov - the Official U.S. Government Site for Medicare

                              Here's Medicare's co-pays:

                              Part A Services

                              Services You Pay

                              Blood In most cases, the hospital gets blood from a blood bank at no charge, and you won't have to pay for it or replace it. If the hospital has to buy blood for you, you must either pay the hospital costs for the first 3 units of blood you get in a calendar year or have the blood donated.

                              Home Health Care You pay:

                              $0 for home health care services
                              20% of the Medicare-approved amount for durable medical equipment

                              Hospice Care You pay:

                              $0 for hospice care
                              A copayment of up to $5 per prescription for outpatient prescription drugs for pain and symptom management
                              5% of the Medicare-approved amount for inpatient respite care (short-term care given by another caregiver, so the usual caregiver can rest)

                              Medicare doesn't cover room and board when you get hospice care in your home or another facility where you live (like a nursing home).

                              Hospital Inpatient Stay You pay:

                              $1,156 deductible per benefit period
                              $0 for the first 60 days of each benefit period
                              $289 per day for days 61-90 of each benefit period
                              $578 per "lifetime reserve day" after day 90 of each benefit period
                              (up to a maximum of 60 days over your lifetime)

                              Skilled Nursing Facility Stay You pay:

                              $0 for the first 20 days each benefit period
                              $144.50 per day for days 21-100 each benefit period
                              All costs for each day after day 100 in a benefit period



                              Higher-income consumers may pay more

                              Part D Late Enrollment Penalty
                              Depends on how long you went without creditable prescription drug coverage
                              Here's Medicaid's co-pays:

                              The following services are subject to a co-payment:

                              Clinic Visits (Hospital-Based and Free Standing Article 28 Health Department-certified facilities) - $3.00;
                              Laboratory Tests performed by an independent clinical laboratory or any hospital-based/free standing clinic laboratory - $0.50 per procedure;
                              Medical Supplies including syringes, bandages, gloves, sterile irrigation solutions, incontinence pads, ostomy bags, heating pads, hearing aid batteries, nutritional supplements, etc. - $1.00 per claim;
                              Inpatient Hospital Stays (involving at least one overnight stay; is due upon discharge) - $25.00;
                              Emergency Room - for non-urgent or non-emergency services - $3.00 per visit;
                              Pharmacy Prescription Drugs - $3.00 Brand Name, $1.00 Generic;
                              Non-Prescription (over the counter) Drugs - $0.50.

                              There is no co-payment on private practicing physician services (including laboratory and/or x-ray services, home health services, personal care services or long term home health care services).

                              Co-pay Maximum

                              You are responsible to pay a maximum of up to $200 in a co-pay year. Your year begins on April 1st and ends March 31st each year. If you reach your maximum of $200, a letter will be sent to you exempting you from paying Medicaid co-payments until April 1st.

                              Co-pay Exemptions

                              The following are exempt from all Medicaid co-payments:

                              Children under 21.
                              Pregnant women. (Pregnant women are exempt during pregnancy and for the two months after the month in which the pregnancy ends.)
                              Family planning (birth control) services -This includes family planning drugs or supplies like birth control pills and condoms.
                              Residents of an Adult Care Facility licensed by the New York State Department of Health.
                              Residents of a Nursing Home.
                              Residents of an Office of Mental Health (OMH) or Office for People with Developmental Disabilities (OPWDD) certified Community Residence.
                              Enrollees in a Comprehensive Medical Case Management (CMCM) or Services Coordination Program.
                              Enrollees in the Home and Community Based Services (HCBS) or Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) waiver programs.
                              Psychotropic and Tuberculosis drugs.

                              You cannot be denied care or services because of your inability to pay a co-payment. A provider has the right to ask you for the co-payment at each visit and bill you for any unpaid co-payments.
                              Medicaid

                              Obviously, when you get old enough for Medicare, you're better off selling or giving away everything you've actually worked for just so you can qualify for Medicaid. Yet people are too stupid to understand that welfare programs like food stamps, Medicaid, government housing, etc. are designed to keep people down....afterall, no politician wants to lose a voting bloc.

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