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Conservatism Continues to Dog The US Healthcare System

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  • Danny
    started a topic Conservatism Continues to Dog The US Healthcare System

    Conservatism Continues to Dog The US Healthcare System

    Health care isn't complicated. How do I know this? Because every other major industrialized nation has it figured out. In most of these countries, single payer systems provide universal coverage to everyone for everything. In Canada, I've never had to pay for any hospital visit for anything. I've had three kids, knee surgery, countless trips to the walk-in clinics etc.

    Everyone is covered for everything. You get cancer? You get unlimited treatment. Same for any disease.

    The partisans are probably thinking "look at this fool with his high taxes". That would simply cost too much in the USA. Well check this out:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP

    The USA pays $9403 per capita on health spending.
    The UK pays $3935
    Canada pays $5292

    This means you could conceivably have the UK system, *cover everyone for everything* and as a bonus have the government save $5468 per person annually or 325.7M * 5468 = $1.78 trillion per year based on my rough calculations. Not to mention the benefits of, you know, saving countless lives.

    In practice I realize it would probably not save *that* much but the point is it would probably be around $1T annual savings. Why are conservatives so opposed to this? Their ideology doesn't believe government should provide healthcare. I can't agree with that and nor should anyone else.

  • Captain Trips
    replied
    Originally posted by redrover View Post

    It's sweet that you care so much for the children of royalty. You and your leader sure don't give a whit about poor children do you? https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/08/polit...ing/index.html
    Rover, educatin' me more every day !!

    I had no idea Alfie was a royal member !!

    This proves that the royalty over there is brain dead stupid.

    Their countries great socialized schemes are killing them OFF LOL

    Fools !!

    Leave a comment:


  • redrover
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
    Rights usurped by people who imagine the authority to do so.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Baby Alfie Becomes Latest Victim of Socialized Medicine

    By Ron Paul
    Monday, 30 April 2018

    Twenty-three-month-old Alfie Evans, passed away in a British hospital on Saturday. While the official cause of death was a degenerative brain disease, Alfie may have been murdered by the British health system and the British high court. Doctors at the hospital treating Alfie decided to remove his life support, against the wishes of Alfie’s parents. The high court not only upheld the doctors’ authority to override the parents’ wishes, it refused to allow the parents to take Alfie abroad for treatment.

    [ by what authority ? ]

    In upholding the government’s authority to substitute its judgment for that of Alfie’s parents, the high court is following in the footsteps of authoritarians throughout history. Ever since Plato, supporters of big government have sought to put government in charge of raising children. The authoritarianism of a system where “experts” can override parents is underscored by a police warning that they were “monitoring” social media posts regarding Alfie.

    Alfie’s case is not just an example of the dangers of allowing government to usurp parental authority or the failures of socialized medicine. It shows the logical result of the widespread acceptance of the idea that rights are mere privileges bestowed by government. It follows from this idea that rights can be taken away whenever demanded by government officials or the popular will.

    ..western politicians deny they believe rights come from government. They instead claim that government must place “reasonable” limits on rights to advance important policy goals, such as limiting the right to free speech to protect certain groups from hate speech, or limiting property rights to promote economic equality. But, a right by its very nature cannot be limited or abolished and still be a right.

    This disdain for a true understanding of rights is found among both liberals and conservatives. Both support a welfare-warfare state funded via the theft of income taxes and the indirect theft of inflation. Both support jailing people for nonviolent actions like drinking raw milk. Many politicians, regardless of ideology, support restrictions on parental rights such as mandatory vaccination laws.

    While claiming to support the right to life, most modern liberals not only support legalized abortion, they want to force pro-lifers to fund abortion providers. Both the right-wing neocons and left-wing humanitarian interventionists dismiss the innocents killed in U.S. military actions as inconsequential “collateral damage.”

    America’s Founding Fathers rejected the idea that rights come from government. They instead embraced the view that rights are either granted by the creator or are a basic attribute of humanity.

    Since rights do not come from government, government has no more legitimate authority to violate our rights than does a private individual. Thus, if an individual cannot use force to make you help others, neither can the government. If an individual cannot use force to stop you from gambling online or telling un-PC jokes, neither can the government. If an individual cannot use force to stop parents from seeking medical treatment for their child, neither can the government.

    Widespread acceptance of natural rights and the principle of nonaggression that flows from natural rights is key to obtaining and maintaining a free society. Thus, educating people in the benefits of free markets, individual liberty, and a foreign policy of peace and free trade is key to protecting future Alfie Evanses, and other victims of the welfare-warfare state, as well as to restoring respect for the moral principles of liberty among a critical mass of the people.



    https://www.newsmax.com/ronpaul/gove.../30/id/857453/
    It's sweet that you care so much for the children of royalty. You and your leader sure don't give a whit about poor children do you? https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/08/polit...ing/index.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Trips
    replied

    Rights usurped by people who imagine the authority to do so.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Baby Alfie Becomes Latest Victim of Socialized Medicine

    By Ron Paul
    Monday, 30 April 2018

    Twenty-three-month-old Alfie Evans, passed away in a British hospital on Saturday. While the official cause of death was a degenerative brain disease, Alfie may have been murdered by the British health system and the British high court. Doctors at the hospital treating Alfie decided to remove his life support, against the wishes of Alfie’s parents. The high court not only upheld the doctors’ authority to override the parents’ wishes, it refused to allow the parents to take Alfie abroad for treatment.

    [ by what authority ? ]

    In upholding the government’s authority to substitute its judgment for that of Alfie’s parents, the high court is following in the footsteps of authoritarians throughout history. Ever since Plato, supporters of big government have sought to put government in charge of raising children. The authoritarianism of a system where “experts” can override parents is underscored by a police warning that they were “monitoring” social media posts regarding Alfie.

    Alfie’s case is not just an example of the dangers of allowing government to usurp parental authority or the failures of socialized medicine. It shows the logical result of the widespread acceptance of the idea that rights are mere privileges bestowed by government. It follows from this idea that rights can be taken away whenever demanded by government officials or the popular will.

    ..western politicians deny they believe rights come from government. They instead claim that government must place “reasonable” limits on rights to advance important policy goals, such as limiting the right to free speech to protect certain groups from hate speech, or limiting property rights to promote economic equality. But, a right by its very nature cannot be limited or abolished and still be a right.

    This disdain for a true understanding of rights is found among both liberals and conservatives. Both support a welfare-warfare state funded via the theft of income taxes and the indirect theft of inflation. Both support jailing people for nonviolent actions like drinking raw milk. Many politicians, regardless of ideology, support restrictions on parental rights such as mandatory vaccination laws.

    While claiming to support the right to life, most modern liberals not only support legalized abortion, they want to force pro-lifers to fund abortion providers. Both the right-wing neocons and left-wing humanitarian interventionists dismiss the innocents killed in U.S. military actions as inconsequential “collateral damage.”

    America’s Founding Fathers rejected the idea that rights come from government. They instead embraced the view that rights are either granted by the creator or are a basic attribute of humanity.

    Since rights do not come from government, government has no more legitimate authority to violate our rights than does a private individual. Thus, if an individual cannot use force to make you help others, neither can the government. If an individual cannot use force to stop you from gambling online or telling un-PC jokes, neither can the government. If an individual cannot use force to stop parents from seeking medical treatment for their child, neither can the government.

    Widespread acceptance of natural rights and the principle of nonaggression that flows from natural rights is key to obtaining and maintaining a free society. Thus, educating people in the benefits of free markets, individual liberty, and a foreign policy of peace and free trade is key to protecting future Alfie Evanses, and other victims of the welfare-warfare state, as well as to restoring respect for the moral principles of liberty among a critical mass of the people.



    https://www.newsmax.com/ronpaul/gove.../30/id/857453/

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Trips
    replied
    For those who think socialized medicine is so wonderful..

    When your medical practitioners become little murderous dictators, don't complain to ME.

    One positive in this article is the proper use of terms. Medical procedures and care are referred to as medical procedures and care NOT "HEALTHCARE" !!

    There's an important difference. People as individuals are responsible for their own healthcare every day. Not doctors, not surgeons, not nurses. . these people provide medical care and are of no use or necessity for our healthcare.

    -----------------------------------------------------


    If you want to catch a glimpse of the horrific, dystopian implications of socialized medicine, you need not skim through a science fiction novel. Simply look overseas to Europe, where yet another sick child has been sentenced to death by a U.K. death panel. First Charlie Gard and now this.

    Little Alfie Evans was put into a coma by a mysterious brain condition that doctors still have not been able to diagnose. Doctors at Alder Hey hospital in London have decided that Alfie will never get better and his life is no longer worth living. His parents disagree. Much like the Charlie Gard case, Alfie's parents are not seeking to force the doctors at Alder Hey to perform medical procedures they do not want to perform. Rather, they want only to take their boy back into their own custody and transfer him to a Vatican hospital. But the London hospital refuses to give the child back to his parents, and the courts have sided with the hospital. They will not let Alfie leave. It is in his best interest to die, they say.

    It may well be true that Alfie Evans will never recover. It may be true that he is now effectively brain dead, although the parents claim otherwise, and, at any rate, I don't see how the hospital can argue that he is both brain dead and suffering. But whatever the case, there is nothing to lose by transferring the child to a hospital that is willing to treat him. It is very common for patients to seek second opinions, especially when a medical condition is this complex and mysterious. Should the parents not get a second opinion before pulling their son from life support? Should they not exhaust every possibility before giving up? Should they not have the right to claim custody of their own child?

    Not in the U.K. Over there, children are the property of the State, and the State has final say over life and death. The death penalty has long since been abolished across Europe, but the government can still impose a death penalty on the young and the sick. It is only convicted murderers who are free from such inhumanities. Sick babies — or perfectly healthy babies in the womb — are not so fortunate.


    https://www.dailywire.com/news/29685...ign=benshapiro

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Trips
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny View Post
    Health care isn't complicated. How do I know this? Because every other major industrialized nation has it figured out. In most of these countries, single payer systems provide universal coverage to everyone for everything. In Canada, I've never had to pay for any hospital visit for anything. I've had three kids, knee surgery, countless trips to the walk-in clinics etc.

    Everyone is covered for everything. You get cancer? You get unlimited treatment. Same for any disease.

    The partisans are probably thinking "look at this fool with his high taxes". That would simply cost too much in the USA. Well check this out:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP

    The USA pays $9403 per capita on health spending.
    The UK pays $3935
    Canada pays $5292

    This means you could conceivably have the UK system, *cover everyone for everything* and as a bonus have the government save $5468 per person annually or 325.7M * 5468 = $1.78 trillion per year based on my rough calculations. Not to mention the benefits of, you know, saving countless lives.

    In practice I realize it would probably not save *that* much but the point is it would probably be around $1T annual savings. Why are conservatives so opposed to this? Their ideology doesn't believe government should provide healthcare. I can't agree with that and nor should anyone else.
    Is it maybe because the great sounding numbers and statistics you give aren't accurate ?

    Is it maybe because the great "healthcare for everyone" system you praise so highly isn't that great ?

    No, oh no of course not.

    Socialized medical care - it's medical care NOT "health" care - is great, it's wonderful, it's cheaper, it saves everyone money and .. the wonders of it are so amazing !!

    Please refer here for a nearly endless discussion of this topic - https://www.uspoliticsonline.com/for...e-care-act-aca

    Leave a comment:

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