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Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

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  • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
    If the Senate doesn't pass something too, Obamacare will die under its own weight very soon.
    THEN what ?

    The media - democrats - will have us all believe that people will die without it now.

    So now government involvement in our health care - which they still have zero business in - is a MUST !

    People will panic, grandma and her grandbabies will DIE !!! Anyone sick will just die !!! - this WILL be the message

    ... and so obama and his destructive "care" is a permanent disease. It's like AIDS - the AIDS virus cannot be gotten rid of (cured) because it inserts itself into your own genetic code and becomes part of YOU. Retrovirus - https://www.britannica.com/science/retrovirus

    Democrats - the media - are making sure obama and his "care" are hard-wired into us all.

    That's how they play this game. Dirty - like a retrovirus

    ?


    • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

      THEN what ?

      The media - democrats - will have us all believe that people will die without it now.

      So now government involvement in our health care - which they still have zero business in - is a MUST !

      People will panic, grandma and her grandbabies will DIE !!! Anyone sick will just die !!! - this WILL be the message

      ... and so obama and his destructive "care" is a permanent disease. It's like AIDS - the AIDS virus cannot be gotten rid of (cured) because it inserts itself into your own genetic code and becomes part of YOU. Retrovirus - https://www.britannica.com/science/retrovirus

      Democrats - the media - are making sure obama and his "care" are hard-wired into us all.

      That's how they play this game. Dirty - like a retrovirus
      That is the end game and Charles Krauthammer has it right, we will have a single payer system within a few years. He says 7, I think less than that. People have been convinced that health care paid for by the government, (meaning someone other than them), is a right and they will demand it and our Representatives will cave to that "demand" giving them ultimate power over our lives. I would not object to a single payer system that Congress had no control over but that is an impossibility.

      ?


      • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
        They should have simply dumped the mandatory requirement and removed state barriers so as to allow companies to offer plans to people in multiple states ( as is now possible with auto insurance).
        What you propose is not enough. Insurance subsidies MUST be eliminated!

        I know you think I'm a monster, but truly I'm not. I in fact favor having a gov't healthcare option for those in eminent need, minimal preventive care for children that does not exceed what a child can get with the lowest cost insurance policy available, and limited routine screening for typical adult diseases like some cancers, and heart disease. But a reformed gov't healthcare system/medicaid that gives different levels of benefits based on age, sex, and personal family and individual history.

        But those in need, should not be receiving a safety net, or blanket and individual care determined by, for profit insurance companies. The gov't money should go directly to the care based on the individuals need for the treatment. The gov't shouldn't be gambling tax dollars on behalf of the needy, and using the insurance company as the bookie/the middle man. A middle man that is counting on making profit. Insurance companies primary goal is not to help people get health care, their intention is to make money. If they can get away with not paying for something based on technicalities they won't pay or authorize. Not only does it harm the un-subsidized insured, it harms the subsidized insured when the dollars are going to a company that is trying to get away with not paying for needed treatment. I've had conversations with adjusters and nurse case managers that agree that the patient needs the care or treatment, yet they deny it because the guidelines and policies say it can be denied. In so many words, and sometimes the exact words, I've been told that they have to do what their bosses want or allow. Their bosses of course are the for profit insurance companies.

        Look, my career is in the medical field, trying to get treatments for people that are in need of it, whether they are on a subsidized or un-subsidized insurance plan. I also try to secure payment for the physicians among many other things. I inform the practitioners what is or is not authorized and they have to make the hard decision of whether to give the treatment and fight for payment, not give the needed treatment, or give the treatment with the knowledge that they will not be getting paid. I've had practitioners make all three choices. Some times the practitioner looses and some times the patient looses. You know who never looses, the insurance companies. They calculate everything by cash flow. See to insurance companies, ill people are not people and are not going to get good and or needed medical care from a business that considers the individual as nothing but a piece of a financial statistic. The way insurance companies make the money is by putting a blanket limit on care and treatment, not based on need. They pick and choose what is necessary based on financial statistics. I see ill patients with ACA insurance that can't get treatment while others can get treatment that many people who are un-subsidized can't get, yet live life without the care. Some of them suffer in pain and deal with it. Others recover without treatment. Sometimes people do benefit with ACA and that's what you hear about. Though there are also ill people with medicaid that have benefited that you don't hear about.

        To make a semi-long story short: Insurance companies do not provide medical service. Gov't should not be spending tax money on a business that does not provide medical care to ill people, but only distributes money. Pay tax money to people, groups, or organizations that are actually providing medical service when the medical service is actually being provided. Insurance subsidies have to stop to better the care for everyone and limit the financial burden on the currently un-subsidized insured. This has to be done with the competition between state lines. Only this will reduce cost and better our healthcare system.


        ?


        • It's also not being factored in that, we don't hear enough about charities and donar's that step in to help where the gov't and insurance companies do not. The less help people get from entitlements from the government, the less the forced contributes feel robbed and bitter, the more money people have to be generous, the more help the needy get from people through compassion for our fellow man. If we're going to take a gamble with the healthcare of humans, a lower risk gamble, opposed to investing in insurance companies, would be to gamble on the compassion of our fellow man. People who can afford, will voluntarily rise and kick in to help those who really need help. It doesn't mean that if the gov't doesn't arrange payment that the bucks stops there.


          St. Jude Children's Research Hospital
          We're dedicated to providing the best care for our patients
          To do that, we need to be at the cutting-edge of the latest medicine and research in fighting life-threatening pediatric diseases such as cancer, all while freeing families from the biggest burden in getting life-saving healthcare: the cost.

          Why funding matters, and where it comes from
          Unlike other hospitals, the majority of funding for St. Jude comes from generous donors. It costs $2.4 million per day to operate St. Jude, and public contributions provide more than 75 percent of the funds necessary to operate the hospital.

          Families never receive a bill from St. Jude for treatment, travel, housing or food. While we accept insurance, many services provided by St. Jude have never been covered by insurance, and will not be in the future. In fact, only 14% of the money to operate the hospital comes from insurance recoveries and 9% comes from grants. This is vastly different than most other hospitals that can generate more than 90% of their revenues from insurance recoveries and other sources. And it's a different financial and operating model than large grant-making charities.

          https://www.stjude.org/about-st-jude...ing-model.html

          People in general are good. People do care. Genuinely care.
          Last edited by msc; 05-06-2017, 09:24 AM.

          ?


          • https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2ea493ecfb09

            ?


            • Originally posted by msc View Post
              It's also not being factored in that, we don't hear enough about charities and donar's that step in to help where the gov't and insurance companies do not. The less help people get from entitlements from the government, the less the forced contributes feel robbed and bitter, the more money people have to be generous, the more help the needy get from people through compassion for our fellow man. If we're going to take a gamble with the healthcare of humans, a lower risk gamble, opposed to investing in insurance companies, would be to gamble on the compassion of our fellow man. People who can afford, will voluntarily rise and kick in to help those who really need help. It doesn't mean that if the gov't doesn't arrange payment that the bucks stops there.


              St. Jude Children's Research Hospital
              We're dedicated to providing the best care for our patients
              To do that, we need to be at the cutting-edge of the latest medicine and research in fighting life-threatening pediatric diseases such as cancer, all while freeing families from the biggest burden in getting life-saving healthcare: the cost.

              Why funding matters, and where it comes from
              Unlike other hospitals, the majority of funding for St. Jude comes from generous donors. It costs $2.4 million per day to operate St. Jude, and public contributions provide more than 75 percent of the funds necessary to operate the hospital.

              Families never receive a bill from St. Jude for treatment, travel, housing or food. While we accept insurance, many services provided by St. Jude have never been covered by insurance, and will not be in the future. In fact, only 14% of the money to operate the hospital comes from insurance recoveries and 9% comes from grants. This is vastly different than most other hospitals that can generate more than 90% of their revenues from insurance recoveries and other sources. And it's a different financial and operating model than large grant-making charities.

              https://www.stjude.org/about-st-jude...ing-model.html

              People in general are good. People do care. Genuinely care.
              That sounds great if you live in Mayberry, but what about the rest of us who live in the real world?

              ?


              • Will they get rid of it ? Will they not get rid of it ? Will they make it about freedom and give us options, instead of "mandates" ?

                Obama dropped a big turd on all of us, instead of our leaders starting on a cleanup, it looks like they'd rather play "dress-up" !

                Spray some essential oil of .. Lavender, ... ? Rose ? .... cinnamon ?... Peppermint ? .... on it.

                Dress it with a little parsley, add a salad on the side and call it dinner ?

                Just look at how they're dressing that doo doo up ! It's looking better & better isn't it ? Everyone on TV says it's looking marvelous . . . it must BE !!

                Come quick !! Have some !!!

                ----------------------------

                .,..

                "If you look at under Obamacare, the average family's premiums have risen over $5,000 a year," the senator said. "That's the main reason people are so furious with Obamacare."

                ...

                Obamacare, he continued, is the "single biggest jobs killer in this country," and changes to the insurance law will also boost the nation's economy, said Cruz.

                ...

                I've never done a small business roundtable when at least half of the small business owners around the table didn't list Obamacare as the single biggest challenge that they face in their business," said Cruz. "We've got to fix that and I think in time once we come together and come to consensus I hope and believe that's what we are going to do."


                http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/cruz.../06/id/788530/

                ----------------------------

                Why it looks like having the government involved in our healthcare - a very personal issue - was the best thing since humankind learned how to use & manage FIRE !!

                ... so you can call me a real "throwback," because I think this is and will ALWAYS be a bad idea.

                ?


                • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                  That sounds great if you live in Mayberry, but what about the rest of us who live in the real world?
                  I don't believe St. Jude's is located in Mayberry and pretty sure that the ill children and families are living in the real world. I'd imagine that these families with true struggle getting true help would imagine that you making such a comment, are someone who is not living in the real world.

                  You can use sarcasm if it makes you feel superior, but that comment serves no place in a sincere, serious, and intellectual conversation.

                  I am correct in my assessment that free market health insurance and free market healthcare implementation will be more beneficial to more people in America, with more affordability, more benefits,and better care; while gov't orchestrated, regulated, and subsidized Obama Care "insurance" design is not helping the indigent sick more than a private sector health care and insurance system, with a reformed gov't assistance program offering minimal tax dollars for specific necessary individual medical care. And I used specifics to explain why I believe I am correct in my assessment.

                  Then your intellectual, sincere, and serious rebuttal is: That sounds great if you live in Mayberry, but what about the rest of us who live in the real world?

                  There are plenty of nimble minded people out there to share unsubstantiated talking points and sling insults to distract from one's ability to do their own calculations, but I expect better from people on this forum.

                  ?


                  • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
                    Will they get rid of it ? Will they not get rid of it ? Will they make it about freedom and give us options, instead of "mandates" ?

                    Obama dropped a big turd on all of us, instead of our leaders starting on a cleanup, it looks like they'd rather play "dress-up" !

                    Spray some essential oil of .. Lavender, ... ? Rose ? .... cinnamon ?... Peppermint ? .... on it.

                    Dress it with a little parsley, add a salad on the side and call it dinner ?

                    Just look at how they're dressing that doo doo up ! It's looking better & better isn't it ? Everyone on TV says it's looking marvelous . . . it must BE !!

                    Come quick !! Have some !!!

                    ----------------------------

                    .,..

                    "If you look at under Obamacare, the average family's premiums have risen over $5,000 a year," the senator said. "That's the main reason people are so furious with Obamacare."

                    ...

                    Obamacare, he continued, is the "single biggest jobs killer in this country," and changes to the insurance law will also boost the nation's economy, said Cruz.

                    ...

                    I've never done a small business roundtable when at least half of the small business owners around the table didn't list Obamacare as the single biggest challenge that they face in their business," said Cruz. "We've got to fix that and I think in time once we come together and come to consensus I hope and believe that's what we are going to do."


                    http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/cruz.../06/id/788530/

                    ----------------------------

                    Why it looks like having the government involved in our healthcare - a very personal issue - was the best thing since humankind learned how to use & manage FIRE !!

                    ... so you can call me a real "throwback," because I think this is and will ALWAYS be a bad idea.
                    I still think Medicare for everyone is the way to go but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

                    ?


                    • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
                      Will they get rid of it ? Will they not get rid of it ? Will they make it about freedom and give us options, instead of "mandates" ?

                      Obama dropped a big turd on all of us, instead of our leaders starting on a cleanup, it looks like they'd rather play "dress-up" !

                      Spray some essential oil of .. Lavender, ... ? Rose ? .... cinnamon ?... Peppermint ? .... on it.

                      Dress it with a little parsley, add a salad on the side and call it dinner ?

                      Just look at how they're dressing that doo doo up ! It's looking better & better isn't it ? Everyone on TV says it's looking marvelous . . . it must BE !!

                      Come quick !! Have some !!!

                      ----------------------------

                      .,..

                      "If you look at under Obamacare, the average family's premiums have risen over $5,000 a year," the senator said. "That's the main reason people are so furious with Obamacare."

                      ...

                      Obamacare, he continued, is the "single biggest jobs killer in this country," and changes to the insurance law will also boost the nation's economy, said Cruz.

                      ...

                      I've never done a small business roundtable when at least half of the small business owners around the table didn't list Obamacare as the single biggest challenge that they face in their business," said Cruz. "We've got to fix that and I think in time once we come together and come to consensus I hope and believe that's what we are going to do."


                      http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/cruz.../06/id/788530/

                      ----------------------------

                      Why it looks like having the government involved in our healthcare - a very personal issue - was the best thing since humankind learned how to use & manage FIRE !!

                      ... so you can call me a real "throwback," because I think this is and will ALWAYS be a bad idea.
                      Not a throwback, just one who gained wisdom with experience, coupled with intellect and knowledge.

                      And I'll confess that I wouldn't call on Cruz to deprogram a cult member, clearly that is not his forte as if it was he would be president; but he has always been and is the smartest one in the room possessing the necessary wisdom to lead a free and productive country.
                      Last edited by msc; 05-07-2017, 10:43 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                        I still think Medicare for everyone is the way to go but that's not going to happen anytime soon.
                        Medicare covers those who paid into the system.

                        ?


                        • Originally posted by msc View Post
                          Not a throwback, just one who gained wisdom with experience, coupled with intellect and knowledge.

                          And I'll confess that I wouldn't call on Cruz to deprogram a cult member, clearly that is not his forte as if it was he would be president; but he has always been and is the smartest one in the room possessing the necessary wisdom to lead a free and productive country.
                          Let's just hope that trump and the spineless retards in the "R" party will actually do what they said they would do.

                          Make democrats scream bloody murder for no reason like they so love to do. ... by getting rid of obama and his deadly "care." It has had disastrous effects on America already, and these idiots are going to act like asylum escapees if it can be gotten rid of.

                          That's all we need to know about the democrat party.

                          ...
                          BOTH parties really.

                          What's wrong with republicans ?

                          There is no such thing as a republican.

                          We have two groups of democrats - criminals really - going by different names.

                          That's all.

                          ....

                          While the Republicans have majority control in the House and Senate, they dont control 60 votes in the Senate.

                          Do you feel like youre being conned?

                          Thats because you are.


                          -------------------------------------------------------

                          Do you recall what the Republican excuse was in 2009 for not stopping Obamacare?

                          The Democrats had control of the House of Representatives.

                          So, in the 2010 election, Americans gave Republicans control of the House.

                          Do you remember what the excuse was in 2011-2013 for business as usual and for giving Barack Obama carte blanch on spending bills that would run up the deficit to record levels?

                          The Democrats had control of the Senate.

                          So, in the 2014 election, Americans gave Republicans control of the Senate.

                          Do you recall what the excuse was in 2015-2016 for the lack of opposition to anything and everything Obama wanted to do for those years?

                          The Democrats had control of the White House.

                          So, in the 2016 election, Americans gave Republicans control of the White House, while maintaining control of the House and Senate.

                          And now, what excuse are Republicans using for not being able to institute the policies they have been promising the American people for all these years?

                          The fact of the matter is that many, if not most, Republicans in the House and the Senate dont really want to change the direction of government in Washington. They dont really want to drain the swamp. They dont really want to do a 180-degree policy shift from the Obama years. In fact, they are perfectly comfortable running this racket on the American people for as long as they can get away with it.


                          ...what hope do we have of changing the political culture in Washington, preserving constitutionally limited government and preventing tyranny in America with a two-party system that operates more like a one-party dictatorship?

                          Ryan and McConnell are not part of the solution in Washington. They are very much part of the problem a BIG part.

                          The Democrats in the House and Senate may be certifiably insane. They may be 100 percent corrupt. They are without question morally bankrupt.

                          But Ryan and McConnell and their supporters in the House and Senate dont see it that way at all. They get money from the same fat-cat sources as Democrats, including the truly evil George Soros! They are more interested in padding their own pocketbooks and campaign war chests than they are in the rule of law and the will of the people.

                          Theyre watching out for themselves, not you not the American people nor the Constitution.

                          In other words, in a two-party system, if you dont have even one party sworn to the Constitution and true representative government, theres very little chance of sustaining either.


                          ...

                          http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/whats-wro...h-republicans/

                          ?


                          • I really shouldn't be surprised that Trump isn't fighting for the full Obama repeal. As that is my cause, I payed close attention to every word he said on the subject from the start. And he didn't start out campaigning on an ACA repeal until he calculated "Repeal" was the key word to use in his campaign regarding healthcare. He also said a few things early on in the primaries that made me believe that he has no real interest in getting the gov't out of the healthcare insurance business. Don't think loosing the ACA repeal fight is something that he cares about loosing or even considers it a loss.

                            I've always said that Trump's issues and passion are with the tax code, foreign relations, trade, and securing the boarders, and the military. The rest he didn't really care about. Now with his lack of interest in a full ACA repeal and lack of serious concern about what kind of replacement plan is passed, it's pretty clear to me that healthcare is simply something that he can sacrifice up while choosing his battles for his primary cause's. Don't even think he wanted a conservative judge in SCOTUS because he cares about preserving the constitution, but only because he can keep the conservatives on board and that a constitutional judge will be less of an obstructionist to his EO's.

                            I predict that when it comes to the tax code, Trump will allow a gov't shut down if he doesn't get the important things that he thinks are necessary to be successful. I believe he will fight hard for it, and play a major role in the orchestration. I also believe that he asked for more that what he believes is necessary for tax reform so he could negotiate to what he believes is necessary. I think we'll see a very different stature from Trump when it come to tax reform.

                            In the name of full disclosure, I don't fancy myself to always be the sharpest tool in the shed, but more often than not, to my dismay, I've been right about what I anticipated what was to come. Often, I hope to be wrong. Often I put to side the negative I anticipate, to maintain hope and pass it off as ignorance in certain matters. Often the hope I maintained has been in vein.

                            I'm not trying to promote myself as the wise authority, I consider it to be because of my calculation, but perhaps it's just coincidence. I don't know. It's just that everything bad that I suspect, seems to come true. Maybe it's just that I'm more pessimistic than some and pessimism regarding the gov't and politics is always the right answer. Though I hope that's not the case, because that would mean that we will also be disappointed about what happens with the tax code. Because my prediction is not based on pessimism.


                            ?


                            • Originally posted by msc View Post
                              I really shouldn't be surprised that Trump isn't fighting for the full Obama repeal. As that is my cause, I payed close attention to every word he said on the subject from the start. And he didn't start out campaigning on an ACA repeal until he calculated "Repeal" was the key word to use in his campaign regarding healthcare. He also said a few things early on in the primaries that made me believe that he has no real interest in getting the gov't out of the healthcare insurance business. Don't think loosing the ACA repeal fight is something that he cares about loosing or even considers it a loss.

                              I've always said that Trump's issues and passion are with the tax code, foreign relations, trade, and securing the boarders, and the military. The rest he didn't really care about. Now with his lack of interest in a full ACA repeal and lack of serious concern about what kind of replacement plan is passed, it's pretty clear to me that healthcare is simply something that he can sacrifice up while choosing his battles for his primary cause's. Don't even think he wanted a conservative judge in SCOTUS because he cares about preserving the constitution, but only because he can keep the conservatives on board and that a constitutional judge will be less of an obstructionist to his EO's.

                              I predict that when it comes to the tax code, Trump will allow a gov't shut down if he doesn't get the important things that he thinks are necessary to be successful. I believe he will fight hard for it, and play a major role in the orchestration. I also believe that he asked for more that what he believes is necessary for tax reform so he could negotiate to what he believes is necessary. I think we'll see a very different stature from Trump when it come to tax reform.

                              In the name of full disclosure, I don't fancy myself to always be the sharpest tool in the shed, but more often than not, to my dismay, I've been right about what I anticipated what was to come. Often, I hope to be wrong. Often I put to side the negative I anticipate, to maintain hope and pass it off as ignorance in certain matters. Often the hope I maintained has been in vein.

                              I'm not trying to promote myself as the wise authority, I consider it to be because of my calculation, but perhaps it's just coincidence. I don't know. It's just that everything bad that I suspect, seems to come true. Maybe it's just that I'm more pessimistic than some and pessimism regarding the gov't and politics is always the right answer. Though I hope that's not the case, because that would mean that we will also be disappointed about what happens with the tax code. Because my prediction is not based on pessimism.

                              Expecting Trump to produce something coherent is like giving a monkey a word processor and expecting him to write the great American novel. Voter's should have seen it coming when Trump was unable to detail any specifics during the campaign. It's going to be great you are going to love it. Is not a plan.

                              ?


                              • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                                Expecting Trump to produce something coherent is like giving a monkey a word processor and expecting him to write the great American novel. Voter's should have seen it coming when Trump was unable to detail any specifics during the campaign. It's going to be great you are going to love it. Is not a plan.
                                Sort of like Hope and Change?

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