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Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

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  • Originally posted by msc View Post
    Patients are statistics to the gov't. No one individual matters.

    Large practices see so many people that they spend less time with the patient. Form no personal connection. The more personal the connection, the more you care about the person and understand their individual medical needs. And in large practices you often see different doctors, again reducing the person connection.

    Referrals do nothing but increase doctor visits where nothing or less is accomplished. This is in addition to the blanket policy, where doctors will not get paid if they provide two or more services or treatments for the patient in one day, even if it's for completely separate issues.

    And capitated payments encourage doctors to have patients come back, so they can get paid for another visit because they get paid so little for many more costly services.

    The bigger the organization, the more removed the decision makers get from the patient and their illness.

    There is so much waste being paid for with managed care, while necessary treatments are being short paid or denied. A completely inefficient system that forces inefficiency on providers.

    Socialized medicine sucks. Tax payers forced generosity pays for medicaid and managed care is reasonable to keep costs down, but the working sector should not have to be subject to strangers calling the shots for medical care that they're paying for.

    ACA is nothing but medicaid expansion. Instead of raising taxes to pay for more welfare, gov't infiltrated the medical insurance business to get the working class to pay for it directly through insurance payments.
    Once the right understands why the for-profit sector will always go for eliminating coverage for pre-existing conditions, and the left understands their gov't. plan is a de facto monopoly strategy, we can make progress.

    I once considered it a pipe dream of mine, but getting thru the learning curve for left & right might actually happen. Then we can get down to a real change, a hybrid system that recognizes the limitations and advantages of every economic sector in health care. Gov't,, for profit and non-profit will all play a role in the final product, if this is developed in a realistic manner.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Like many other things the government involves itself with, MONEY is their motive. Making us pay them so THEY can "better manage" OUR money.

      ... and we all know how great that "better management" of our money goes. They steal or waste most of it.

      Which is why things get more expensive, services cease to exist etc.

      The following is well said and correct. It just underscores the truth that government is not the solution, it's the problem.

      Originally posted by msc View Post
      Patients are statistics to the gov't. No one individual matters.

      Large practices see so many people that they spend less time with the patient. Form no personal connection. The more personal the connection, the more you care about the person and understand their individual medical needs. And in large practices you often see different doctors, again reducing the person connection.

      Referrals do nothing but increase doctor visits where nothing or less is accomplished. This is in addition to the blanket policy, where doctors will not get paid if they provide two or more services or treatments for the patient in one day, even if it's for completely separate issues.

      And capitated payments encourage doctors to have patients come back, so they can get paid for another visit because they get paid so little for many more costly services.

      The bigger the organization, the more removed the decision makers get from the patient and their illness.

      There is so much waste being paid for with managed care, while necessary treatments are being short paid or denied. A completely inefficient system that forces inefficiency on providers.

      Socialized medicine sucks. Tax payers forced generosity pays for medicaid and managed care is reasonable to keep costs down, but the working sector should not have to be subject to strangers calling the shots for medical care that they're paying for.

      ACA is nothing but medicaid expansion. Instead of raising taxes to pay for more welfare, gov't infiltrated the medical insurance business to get the working class to pay for it directly through insurance payments.
      ================================================== ================

      Originally posted by radcentr View Post
      Once the right understands why the for-profit sector will always go for eliminating coverage for pre-existing conditions, and the left understands their gov't. plan is a de facto monopoly strategy, we can make progress.

      I once considered it a pipe dream of mine, but getting thru the learning curve for left & right might actually happen. Then we can get down to a real change, a hybrid system that recognizes the limitations and advantages of every economic sector in health care. Gov't,, for profit and non-profit will all play a role in the final product, if this is developed in a realistic manner.
      That sounds great. It can't happen when you have the tentacles of government involved in everything, it just can't. They will NEVER submit any of their power, because it's all about MONEY. It's run by greed !

      Doubly so NOW. Insurance companies AND the government. Only God could perform the miracle of removing even some of their involvement.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
        Like many other things the government involves itself with, MONEY is their motive. Making us pay them so THEY can "better manage" OUR money.

        ... and we all know how great that "better management" of our money goes.[B] ....


        That sounds great. It can't happen when you have the tentacles of government involved in everything, it just can't. They will NEVER submit any of their power, because it's all about MONEY. It's run by greed !

        Doubly so NOW. Insurance companies AND the government. Only God could perform the miracle of removing even some of their involvement.
        I doubt the Dems are much interested in shrinking gov't., since that is the vehicle they use to push programs and services for constituents. What I find curious is the lack of GOP action in doing the same, while providing essential services to their constituents. A substitution of for-profit services that are unaffordable (or non-existent, like excluding pre-existing conditions), is not serving their constituents. Both parties are purposefully blind to including any other economic strategy. It is either gummint or for profit. "Can't get there, from here", as the Maine gas station operator would say.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
          I doubt the Dems are much interested in shrinking gov't., since that is the vehicle they use to push programs and services for constituents. What I find curious is the lack of GOP action in doing the same, while providing essential services to their constituents. A substitution of for-profit services that are unaffordable (or non-existent, like excluding pre-existing conditions), is not serving their constituents. Both parties are purposefully blind to including any other economic strategy. It is either gummint or for profit. "Can't get there, from here", as the Maine gas station operator would say.
          Because essentially, there's no difference between today's political "parties."

          They're like two subspecies of fly with very minor variation between them, almost indiscernible. ..and they're both drawn to money like flies are to s*&t on a hot day.

          They "argue" and they "debate" and put on a great show for you and I, but that's all it is - SHOW.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • The problem here is that everyone involved is human. Every organization, private of government is made up of humans. And humans are imperfect. Though compassion, love, caring, kindness, and selflessness is part of the human nature; indifference, hate, greed, cruelty, and selfishness are also part of human nature.

            Any policy, program or law constructed must take this into consideration. We need to protect, encourage, and reward the goodness in our nature. While keeping a close eye on the bad and devise obstacles to keep the bad at bay. We can not EVER assume that an organization of any sort, like I said, private or government will not be infiltrated with the bad characteristics or humans. Why anyone would think that the government organization of humans, is immune to the evils of human nature is perplexing. It's unrealistic, unreasonable and illogical. We can't assume that if the government collection of humans holds the power to a program, healthcare, for example, that they will act with the good intention.

            This is why it is so important NOT to allow any monopoly that directly effects the lives,well being, and freedom of all citizens. Not to allow ANY organization, government or not, that is composed of human beings, to hold all the cards with all the power. Keeping an organization small, especially a law making organization that effect every citizen, is the obstacle needed that will keep the evil traits of human nature at bay.

            America as designed, is about individualism. Recognizing, Respecting and caring about each Individual and their individual freedoms guiding law to conform to individual rights. Socialism does not recognize the individual, but the collective. This is why people flee'd from other nations and America was created as such. And America as create was the best Country in the world, because is was a county acknowledging the individual greater than the collective. Socialism steels from Peter to pay Paul. Socialism is the design for life in other countries. Not America. Adding such a large socialized program, such as ACA, is un-American. Not the kind of policy that made America Great. ACA which is leading to the completion of the implementation of socialized medicine, is and will be the down fall of the United States and all it stands for. Our soldiers fought for our individual freedoms. Not to offer gifts to one sect of society, by steeling from another. Not for our government to control and oppress the individual in the interest of the collective. Those are the traits of socialism, which is the premise for Communism, Dictatorship, Monarchy, etc., any government that does not support individual rights as granted in our constitution.

            And that's the story I'm sticking to. IMO that is the base of everything that has gone right in America.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Originally posted by msc View Post
              The problem here is that everyone involved is human. Every organization, private of government is made up of humans. And humans are imperfect. Though compassion, love, caring, kindness, and selflessness is part of the human nature; indifference, hate, greed, cruelty, and selfishness are also part of human nature.

              Any policy, program or law constructed must take this into consideration. We need to protect, encourage, and reward the goodness in our nature. While keeping a close eye on the bad and devise obstacles to keep the bad at bay. We can not EVER assume that an organization of any sort, like I said, private or government will not be infiltrated with the bad characteristics or humans. Why anyone would think that the government organization of humans, is immune to the evils of human nature is perplexing. It's unrealistic, unreasonable and illogical. We can't assume that if the government collection of humans holds the power to a program, healthcare, for example, that they will act with the good intention.

              This is why it is so important NOT to allow any monopoly that directly effects the lives,well being, and freedom of all citizens. Not to allow ANY organization, government or not, that is composed of human beings, to hold all the cards with all the power. Keeping an organization small, especially a law making organization that effect every citizen, is the obstacle needed that will keep the evil traits of human nature at bay.

              America as designed, is about individualism. Recognizing, Respecting and caring about each Individual and their individual freedoms guiding law to conform to individual rights. Socialism does not recognize the individual, but the collective. This is why people flee'd from other nations and America was created as such. And America as create was the best Country in the world, because is was a county acknowledging the individual greater than the collective. Socialism steels from Peter to pay Paul. Socialism is the design for life in other countries. Not America. Adding such a large socialized program, such as ACA, is un-American. Not the kind of policy that made America Great. ACA which is leading to the completion of the implementation of socialized medicine, is and will be the down fall of the United States and all it stands for. Our soldiers fought for our individual freedoms. Not to offer gifts to one sect of society, by steeling from another. Not for our government to control and oppress the individual in the interest of the collective. Those are the traits of socialism, which is the premise for Communism, Dictatorship, Monarchy, etc., any government that does not support individual rights as granted in our constitution.

              And that's the story I'm sticking to. IMO that is the base of everything that has gone right in America.
              Without enforcing the law, every large organizations will find ways to fail. Why I like a mix, in part because one organization is ready to replace another if they fail to control bad behavior. But at the end of the day, enforcement is a gov't. function (fe the Audit). Those organizations that function well prove it on the audit and customer reaction. Individuals will rely on two levels of protection if we get a "mixed strategy" for health care. One is choice, between competent organizations who provide insurance and actual health care. The other is enforcement to keep illegal or incompetent behavior at a manageable level. Enforcement of the law ensures a free market, rather than a form of socialism,, which is a variation on monopoly control of the economy.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Originally posted by radcentr View Post

                Without enforcing the law, every large organizations will find ways to fail. Why I like a mix, in part because one organization is ready to replace another if they fail to control bad behavior. But at the end of the day, enforcement is a gov't. function (fe the Audit). Those organizations that function well prove it on the audit and customer reaction. Individuals will rely on two levels of protection if we get a "mixed strategy" for health care. One is choice, between competent organizations who provide insurance and actual health care. The other is enforcement to keep illegal or incompetent behavior at a manageable level. Enforcement of the law ensures a free market, rather than a form of socialism,, which is a variation on monopoly control of the economy.
                Are you agreeing with what I said? Can you elaborate on the "mixed strategy" idea?

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Originally posted by msc View Post

                  Are you agreeing with what I said? Can you elaborate on the "mixed strategy" idea?
                  As far as a mixed strategy in general is concerned, I agree with you. As far as the details of the mixed strategy? We would probably disagree on a lot of details. You might want gov't. to stay out of providing health care, while I note they are already doing so (Veteran's admin, insurance in Medicare/caid). Could gov't. reduce their involvement in providing health care, including insurance? You and I might agree they should, but disagree on how, or by how much.

                  My main point: I'd like to see non-profits take over much or most of the patient-contact costs, since we're talking about a service that most of us cannot afford once it becomes more serious than a basic annual checkup. If most people already cannot afford full premiums for pre-existing conditions as part of an insurance policy, why are there proposals to have for-profit insurance get involved on that end? For profit can make sense for catastrophic policies, and I admit the right made good points for allowing young immortals (aka, young adults in excellent health) to use these cheap policies. Otherwise, for profit insurance companies don't make sense for the working class. If or when the GOP will go down this non-profit road, I think they could put the right kind of pressure on Dems to cave in on their "gov't. only" medical insurance plan. For-profits can provide hardware, medicine and other "durable goods" to the medical sector. I can't beat the argument for capitalism as an excellent method to fund and organize for research, manufacturing and marketing of innovative goods. And my bias is for collectivism (socialism from the bottom-up), not capitalism. -What I think you and I might agree on -despite our clear differences- is the need to avoid "Bigger is Better" for health care. Whether the "Big" is gummint or corporate.

                  If lawmakers, health care providers, and patients (all of us) can agree on that, and the need to get a good mix of economic sectors involved, we should be able to get to a good policy at a reasonable price. One last point: We should do this carefully, a good product will take time to develop. No more "quick reading" of proposed bills.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • President wants to get rid of obamas individual "mandate"... This is good.

                    Can he do it ? Probably not.

                    Not with the creepy crawlies that inhabit Washington D.C. and the rest of govt. OR with a "media" constantly willing to lie and fabricate new truths & realities to scare everyone with.


                    ---------------------------------------


                    Trump Wants Health Reform Linked to Tax Package

                    House Republicans released their tax plan on Thursday, but it did not include a repeal of the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate.

                    Trump called for the repeal Wednesday, though he praised the tax proposal after the rollout as being "all about jobs."

                    rady, 62, who was first elected to Congress in 1996, had told reporters earlier this week that he did not want the mandate repeal included because it might jeopardize the tax legislation, since the Senate has been unable to deliver on healthcare reform.

                    Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton has been pushing the idea and discussed it with Trump this past weekend, The Hill reports.

                    Repealing the Obamacare mandate would save around $400 billion, according to the report, and those funds could be used to pay for tax cuts.

                    However, the Congressional Budget Office has said that the repeal would leave 15 million more Americans without insurance and premiums would increase by 20 percent.

                    House Freedom Caucus also backs including the repeal, Chairman Rep. Mark Meadows, the North Carolina Republican, told the Hill.

                    In other comments from the Politico session, Brady said that Trump "calls regularly, more often now, just weighing in on these decisions" regarding the tax plan — and he will play a big way in promoting it to taxpayers.

                    "He's using Twitter to make the case as well," the chairman said. "He's been all in on the rollout.




                    http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/kevi.../03/id/824040/

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                    • Trump talking about repealing/replacing the individual mandate of obama"care"..

                      Hopefully he gets rid of ALL of obamas socialist fantasy mess.

                      Liberals will squeal cry whine and lie of course.

                      We'll endure, babies cry ...

                      ----------------------------------

                      "We had the votes until we were surprised late in the morning," Trump said. "We were very sadly surprised by one person — and that's OK, because we're going to have a very, very good healthcare situation.

                      "We will be repealing and replacing.

                      "There's a lot of people that want to put the individual mandate repealed," the president said. "They want to do that and they want to put it right into the tax package.

                      "That could happen — and it probably will happen."


                      ....

                      http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Pres.../03/id/824069/

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                      • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
                        President wants to get rid of obamas individual "mandate"... This is good.

                        Can he do it ? Probably not.

                        Not with the creepy crawlies that inhabit Washington D.C. and the rest of govt. OR with a "media" constantly willing to lie and fabricate new truths & realities to scare everyone with.


                        ---------------------------------------


                        Trump Wants Health Reform Linked to Tax Package

                        House Republicans released their tax plan on Thursday, but it did not include a repeal of the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate.

                        Trump called for the repeal Wednesday, though he praised the tax proposal after the rollout as being "all about jobs."

                        rady, 62, who was first elected to Congress in 1996, had told reporters earlier this week that he did not want the mandate repeal included because it might jeopardize the tax legislation, since the Senate has been unable to deliver on healthcare reform.

                        Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton has been pushing the idea and discussed it with Trump this past weekend, The Hill reports.

                        Repealing the Obamacare mandate would save around $400 billion, according to the report, and those funds could be used to pay for tax cuts.

                        However, the Congressional Budget Office has said that the repeal would leave 15 million more Americans without insurance and premiums would increase by 20 percent.

                        House Freedom Caucus also backs including the repeal, Chairman Rep. Mark Meadows, the North Carolina Republican, told the Hill.

                        In other comments from the Politico session, Brady said that Trump "calls regularly, more often now, just weighing in on these decisions" regarding the tax plan — and he will play a big way in promoting it to taxpayers.

                        "He's using Twitter to make the case as well," the chairman said. "He's been all in on the rollout.




                        http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/kevi.../03/id/824040/
                        How about getting rid of the individual mandate, while forcing a lifetime mortgage payment for those without health insurance, who rack up a huge health care bill? That would provide some protection for the state/county taxpayer, who picks up the tab on unpaid bills. Simply making medical debt exempt from bankruptcy won't do the trick; people make small payments until local gov't. billing gives up, pardons the debt, and writes it off (aka, charges the taxpayer). Your idea just passes the debt buck down the line, from the federal to the local taxpayer.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                          How about getting rid of the individual mandate, while forcing a lifetime mortgage payment for those without health insurance, who rack up a huge health care bill? That would provide some protection for the state/county taxpayer, who picks up the tab on unpaid bills. Simply making medical debt exempt from bankruptcy won't do the trick; people make small payments until local gov't. billing gives up, pardons the debt, and writes it off (aka, charges the taxpayer). Your idea just passes the debt buck down the line, from the federal to the local taxpayer.
                          "My idea" ?

                          That we should be a free people that don't have some tyrannical bureaucracy forcing us to make payments on things all of our lives that we may or may NOT ever use or need ?

                          Insurance. An industry run on the very same principles as gambling casinos.

                          Do you honestly believe that tying the government into the insurance industry, medical care & medical care financing, can ever deliver a good result to people ?

                          I don't for very good reasons.

                          Everyone is different. Everyone's medical needs are different.

                          Expecting the government to make an easy, cookie cutter solution to serve everyone equally, is utter foolishness.

                          Costs will go up - even for people that never, or rarely use or need it.

                          Quality will go down.

                          Government is not the answer on this one. It never will be.

                          I'm not sure it matters now at this point though. Mister obama got governments tentacles deeply entwined in this industry - more deeply than they already were.

                          Trump wants to get rid of the individual mandate... I have high hopes, but very low expectations.

                          Think about the wild eyed claims and noise we're going to be fed by our "media" if he DOES manage to pull it off.

                          "People are dying because they lost their insurance !!!! Oh Nooooooooooo, the world is ending, my teenage daughter can't get treatment at planned parenthood, because we don't have health insurance - we'll have to move out of our apartment and live under a bridge and and and ....."

                          We'll see "tragedies" every day on television if we tear down obamas wonderful "healthcare" plan.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • Originally posted by radcentr View Post

                            How about getting rid of the individual mandate, while forcing a lifetime mortgage payment for those without health insurance, who rack up a huge health care bill? That would provide some protection for the state/county taxpayer, who picks up the tab on unpaid bills. Simply making medical debt exempt from bankruptcy won't do the trick; people make small payments until local gov't. billing gives up, pardons the debt, and writes it off (aka, charges the taxpayer). Your idea just passes the debt buck down the line, from the federal to the local taxpayer.
                            It's true, if the mandate is repealed as the only adjustment, costs will go up as you say. And I am one of the people who will be effected negatively. However, the mandate is wrong and should be repealed. As much as the entire ACA has me so infuriated, this mandate angered me the most.

                            How can anyone not find it disturbing that you owe a tax to the government just for being alive. Just for breathing the air. The government now owns the air? The gov't decides who is allowed to use the oxygen they own. If you're born to a family that is indigent, the gov't will share the oxygen with you at no cost, and in fact give you healthcare, but if you're born to a family that is not poor, you're penalized just for being born, and have to pay for it. You take you're first breath, you owe the government. You've used something they own. This is what is happening. It's a tax on life for gov't selected individuals, that only the gov't can removed if you do what the gov't says; ";buy health insurance". How can anyone not find something significantly wrong with this?

                            It's one thing to attach a tax to a service or item, but quite another to attach a tax to a human life.








                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • Originally posted by msc View Post
                              It's true, if the mandate is repealed as the only adjustment, costs will go up as you say. And I am one of the people who will be effected negatively. However, the mandate is wrong and should be repealed. As much as the entire ACA has me so infuriated, this mandate angered me the most.

                              How can anyone not find it disturbing that you owe a tax to the government just for being alive. Just for breathing the air. The government now owns the air? The gov't decides who is allowed to use the oxygen they own. If you're born to a family that is indigent, the gov't will share the oxygen with you at no cost, and in fact give you healthcare, but if you're born to a family that is not poor, you're penalized just for being born, and have to pay for it. You take you're first breath, you owe the government. You've used something they own. This is what is happening. It's a tax on life for gov't selected individuals, that only the gov't can removed if you do what the gov't says; ";buy health insurance". How can anyone not find something significantly wrong with this?

                              It's one thing to attach a tax to a service or item, but quite another to attach a tax to a human life.



                              "But but but but that's not what this is !"

                              We'll be told.

                              "This is to make it 'fair' for eveybody,, so everybody gets treated 'equally' !"

                              ... which is the opposite of what happens of course. The lies of ALL socialists,... it's an old, tired game selling this crap to people.

                              Democrats worked their magic on us, on a Christmas eve if I recall. Shut themselves in a rabbit-hole somewhere and popped out with obamacare for the world to love.

                              Republicans could do something similar to destroy it.

                              They won't of course.

                              Democrats can use these methods and the "media" will support them.

                              Republicans can't.

                              The "media" would howl holy hell if republicans attempted tricks like the democrats get away with !!

                              Which takes us back to the lie of obamacare and making things "fair for everybody."

                              The socialists - democrats - have exposed themselves. NOTHING they do is about "fairness," "equality," or "tolerance."

                              If it were, they wouldn't need a one sided media covering their asses every day. Presenting information in such obviously slanted ways to help support such obviously bad ideas.

                              The "press" is no longer interested in reporting facts.

                              Their main concern is forwarding the current "mainstream" agenda - whatever that may be at any given time.

                              It must be noted that "mainstream," doesn't necessarily mean a general agreement on that agenda by the public.

                              No, today "mainstream" means what a few rich & self important elites believe it should mean. Want it to be, always to best solidify their own money and power.

                              It's NEVER for the people !

                              The "news" is now a tool used by rich elites for the purpose of manipulating & controlling "the people," the population. They play games with words and massage meanings, using peoples emotions to help assist & cause the effects they're aiming for.

                              It's one of the biggest con-games the world has ever seen, and people are seeing it for what it is;

                              A con-game being played on them by slithery, oily people who love money and power.

                              High Priests of the evil in the human condition.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                                "My idea" ?

                                That we should be a free people that don't have some tyrannical bureaucracy forcing us to make payments on things all of our lives that we may or may NOT ever use or need ?

                                Insurance. An industry run on the very same principles as gambling casinos.

                                Do you honestly believe that tying the government into the insurance industry, medical care & medical care financing, can ever deliver a good result to people ?

                                I don't for very good reasons.

                                Everyone is different. Everyone's medical needs are different.

                                Expecting the government to make an easy, cookie cutter solution to serve everyone equally, is utter foolishness.

                                Costs will go up - even for people that never, or rarely use or need it.

                                Quality will go down.

                                Government is not the answer on this one. It never will be.

                                I'm not sure it matters now at this point though. Mister obama got governments tentacles deeply entwined in this industry - more deeply than they already were.

                                Trump wants to get rid of the individual mandate... I have high hopes, but very low expectations.

                                Think about the wild eyed claims and noise we're going to be fed by our "media" if he DOES manage to pull it off.

                                "People are dying because they lost their insurance !!!! Oh Nooooooooooo, the world is ending, my teenage daughter can't get treatment at planned parenthood, because we don't have health insurance - we'll have to move out of our apartment and live under a bridge and and and ....."

                                We'll see "tragedies" every day on television if we tear down obamas wonderful "healthcare" plan.
                                Get stuck with local health care bills that go unpaid, then. You could allow people to use a catastrophic insurance plan, that pays only after out of pocket of 5 or 10 thousand is reached. Barring the mandate, one advantage of no coverage is less expense for those who go without, until they need expensive health care.

                                While the Dems claim a monopoly provider will do well, some of the GOP have claimed no coverage for pre-existing conditions or no mandate will lower costs. No coverage for pre-existing conditions is a deal breaker (arguably reason #1 why people want insurance). No mandate will push the catastrophic health care bills down to the local level for payment, or break public hospitals after awhile. One thing I've heard on right wing radio -suggesting people don't use insurance, instead going to emergency rooms for treatment. In addition to eliminating preventive treatment, emergency rooms will instead rack up very large bills for consequences of no preventive treatment. (fe) The emergency room treats heart attacks, rather than prescribe statin drugs to prevent or lower the frequency of heart attacks. Penny wise, pound foolish. Someone has to pay those bills, if the public hospitals continue to exist.

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