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Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

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  • Health insurance didn't cause health problems. It help many people solve many health problems. It's was a good thing if left alone by government.


    It's a hideous thing to destroy something that helped so many just because it wasn't helping everyone with everything.

    Health Insurance helped a lot of people. Not rich people, they didn't need it. It helped middle class people to be able to get more needed health care by voluntarily choosing to pool money for shared cost. They found it affordable and were able to prosper. It's not the fault of the middle class that others can not afford and it is not the responsibility of the middle class to take care of everyone health needs. The middle class are just people who are trying to live a good, comfortable or prosperous life. There is absolutely no shame in that and nothing wrong with it. It was better for the health of the middle class than before insurance companies came along. Insurance companies did a good thing for people. It is unrealistic, unreasonable, and just wrong to demonize health insurers and insist that insurance companies are responsible to help solve all medical issues for all people, when they were helping many people with many issues.

    Then we have the poor, who can not afford. You've got Medicaid. A government funded program. Helps people that who otherwise would have had no or less care. Yes I believe Medicaid should be reformed to help the needy more while cutting waste. And personally I'm okay with medicaid at a reasonable and well organized level, if the economy is doing well. But I agree with the righteous point that the federal government has no business redistributing tax dollars for such a cause. State government's have the leeway to authorize create such programs, but as the constitution is written, and federal government is designed, the Federal Gov't has no business addressing it. But that's a government issue to be dealt with outside the medical insurance business. That's a conversation we can have about a small socialized programs that can help people if joined with voluntary help. But the healthcare of the poor is a separate issued from private organization that is selling something to people who can and choose to purchase if they find it helpful.

    It's a horrible attitude to have, that if all can't a certain level of care, than no one should get it. How is it wrong for the middle class to have money to purchase something that helps them with their healthcare? In America, it is just wrong for the Federal Government to deny the freedom of people to prosper from the hard work of your own back, for the health care of the nation.

    It is so foolish not to understand that socialized medicine favors the ever so hated elites. It may help the poor only with medical issues, but it creates more poor while bringing the middle class down. Socialized medicine says that only after you've worked to pay for the healthcare of all citizens, and only then if you have enough money left over, are you entitled to premium healthcare and or prosperity. Hence, only rich can get the best above substandard healthcare, only the rich can prosper, and only the rich can live with luxuries that the once middle class had. Socialized medicine creates a 2 class system with a nearly indestructible line that only the few can break through.

    Geeze. I don't want what's yours. Just leave me alone, and stop taking what's mine. Prove to me that you're working as hard as I am, and made as many sacrifices as I've made, and maybe I'll choose to help you if I can. This is America. I should get to choose if I want to work two jobs to help you or choose to work one and spend time with my family. You have no right to take that away from. I say YOU meaning anyone who thinks they are entitled to have what I've worked for or those who believe it is righteous to take what I've worked for and give it to others.
    Last edited by msc; 11-19-2017, 09:05 AM.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Originally posted by msc View Post
      Health insurance didn't cause health problems. It help many people solve many health problems. It's was a good thing if left alone by government.


      It's a hideous thing to destroy something that helped so many just because it wasn't helping everyone with everything.

      Health Insurance helped a lot of people. Not rich people, they didn't need it. It helped middle class people to be able to get more needed health care by voluntarily choosing to pool money for shared cost. They found it affordable and were able to prosper. It's not the fault of the middle class that others can not afford and it is not the responsibility of the middle class to take care of everyone health needs. The middle class are just people who are trying to live a good, comfortable or prosperous life. There is absolutely no shame in that and nothing wrong with it. It was better for the health of the middle class than before insurance companies came along. Insurance companies did a good thing for people. It is unrealistic, unreasonable, and just wrong to demonize health insurers and insist that insurance companies are responsible to help solve all medical issues for all people, when they were helping many people with many issues.

      Then we have the poor, who can not afford. You've got Medicaid. A government funded program. Helps people that who otherwise would have had no or less care. Yes I believe Medicaid should be reformed to help the needy more while cutting waste. And personally I'm okay with medicaid at a reasonable and well organized level, if the economy is doing well. But I agree with the righteous point that the federal government has no business redistributing tax dollars for such a cause. State government's have the leeway to authorize create such programs, but as the constitution is written, and federal government is designed, the Federal Gov't has no business addressing it. But that's a government issue to be dealt with outside the medical insurance business. That's a conversation we can have about a small socialized programs that can help people if joined with voluntary help. But the healthcare of the poor is a separate issued from private organization that is selling something to people who can and choose to purchase if they find it helpful.

      It's a horrible attitude to have, that if all can't a certain level of care, than no one should get it. How is it wrong for the middle class to have money to purchase something that helps them with their healthcare? In America, it is just wrong for the Federal Government to deny the freedom of people to prosper from the hard work of your own back, for the health care of the nation.

      It is so foolish not to understand that socialized medicine favors the ever so hated elites. It may help the poor only with medical issues, but it creates more poor while bringing the middle class down. Socialized medicine says that only after you've worked to pay for the healthcare of all citizens, and only then if you have enough money left over, are you entitled to premium healthcare and or prosperity. Hence, only rich can get the best above substandard healthcare, only the rich can prosper, and only the rich can live with luxuries that the once middle class had. Socialized medicine creates a 2 class system with a nearly indestructible line that only the few can break through.

      Geeze. I don't want what's yours. Just leave me alone, and stop taking what's mine. Prove to me that you're working as hard as I am, and made as many sacrifices as I've made, and maybe I'll choose to help you if I can. This is America. I should get to choose if I want to work two jobs to help you or choose to work one and spend time with my family. You have no right to take that away from. I say YOU meaning anyone who thinks they are entitled to have what I've worked for or those who believe it is righteous to take what I've worked for and give it to others.
      And we see many well to do - rich - people supporting this socialized scheme.

      Because they supposedly "care" for the "poor." As always, evils are sold with lies.

      Obama and his "care" are about one thing only.

      Destruction.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

        And we see many well to do - rich - people supporting this socialized scheme.

        Because they supposedly "care" for the "poor." As always, evils are sold with lies.

        Obama and his "care" are about one thing only.

        Destruction.
        And dependence.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

          And dependence.
          The great thing about the republican Christmas gift to the rich it also takes health care away from millions of people So blue collar working man not only are we going to raise your taxes but we also going to take away your health care. Remember that Trump loves you. Didn't you see him put that hard hat on?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Originally posted by redrover View Post
            The great thing about the republican Christmas gift to the rich it also takes health care away from millions of people So blue collar working man not only are we going to raise your taxes but we also going to take away your health care. Remember that Trump loves you. Didn't you see him put that hard hat on?
            You believe too much crap you read or hear in the leftist MSM. No one is taking away anyone's health care.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Originally posted by redrover View Post
              The great thing about the republican Christmas gift to the rich it also takes health care away from millions of people So blue collar working man not only are we going to raise your taxes but we also going to take away your health care. Remember that Trump loves you. Didn't you see him put that hard hat on?
              Can you imagine if these "republicans" gave us the same kind of crap Mr. obama, Nancy and Harry gave us right around Christmas ?

              Maybe they'll come out with some great new tax for us all to pay on New Years day. Some great new tax that will eventually be challenged and have to be cleared by the supreme court.

              It will be wonderful.

              It will be a great new tax for us all to pay that will make our lives all better and easier and blah blah blah blah .. and did I mention how wonderful it would be ?

              Yes, I think I did.

              God help us if "republicans" start acting like that... and they MIGHT. So keep your chin up, you might love this new deal LOL

              Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
              You believe too much crap you read or hear in the leftist MSM. No one is taking away anyone's health care.
              Those "republicans" are gonna kill grandma and my little sister and ... do other bad stuff LOL

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Democrats and their fascination with Mr. Obama and his "care," somehow can't see reality.

                Their foolish fantasy is collapsing.

                They pretend it isn't. You see, it's all Donald Trumps fault . . . somehow.

                ---------------------------------------------------

                Obamacare costs are out of control. It's tax cuts that might make the Democrats' beloved Obamacare more affordable. Democrats are having none of it.

                The following article from the Washington Post shows that the people of Virginia are seeing massive increases in premiums and deductibles. It gave this example:

                Ian Dixon, who left his full-time job in 2016 to pursue an app-development business, did so because the ACA guaranteed that he could still have quality coverage for his young family, he said.

                But when the 38-year-old Charlottesville husband and father of a 3- and a 1-year-old went to re-enroll this month, his only choice for coverage would cost him more than $3,000 a month for his family of four, which amounted to an increase of more than 300 percent over the $900 he paid the year before. And this is for the second-cheapest option, with a deductible of $9,200.

                The Virginia residents are so lucky to have so many Obama-era transplants filling the federal bureaucracies in the Virginia suburbs who now affect the state's election outcomes, turning a previously red state blue. These Obama newcomers have now ensured the election, for Virginia, of a Democrat who is against people having the freedom of choice to buy cheaper policies and who will support the so-called Affordable Care Act, no matter what it costs. Health premiums and out-of-pocket deductibles have been skyrocketing for seven years now, and of course, it is Trump's fault after ten months because it is just impossible that Democrats are at fault for the way they wrote the law and regulations.

                ....

                Democrats call themselves progressives, but there is absolutely nothing progressive about continually making government bigger and continually making more people dependent on government by reducing opportunities to move up the economic ladder. The policies are especially harmful to the poor, the middle class, and minorities, whom Democrats only pretend to care about. They can't allow more freedom and money to remain in the private sector because that would cause Democrats to lose the power they have amassed, and that would be against their main goal.

                The Democrats not only don't mind the people from Virginia paying higher premiums and deductibles than they would if they had more choices, but also believe that people who earn less in lower-tax states should subsidize higher-income people in high-tax states where Democrats have continually run up the taxes.

                I always feel great subsidizing people who make more than me.

                I believe they should change the name of the Affordable Care Act to the Disposable Income Reduction Act – because Congress and reporters always wants truth in advertising, don't they?


                http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ction_act.html

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

                  You believe too much crap you read or hear in the leftist MSM. No one is taking away anyone's health care.
                  Of course not. They are just going to make it cost a lot more than they can afford. Sheer genius.

                  OTOH, if people see enuf fellow overweight citizens dropping dead on the streets, it might inspire survivors to do the "diet and exercise" routine. That will lower health care costs.

                  Me? I'm going to pick door #3. The Dems will claim everyone should get Buck Roger's Hi Tech Cutting Edge treatment for free, while the GOP will claim everyone could afford it if only we had to pay for it all by ourselves. Tomorrow, I'm going to ask my in-law's cancer treatment provider to lower her cost to something affordable. They should accept a reasonable offer, say about $200 per month for a couple of years. From game show to stand-up comedy in one paragraph.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • What did barack, nancy and hairy give us ?

                    They "give" us only pain, as they TAKE TAKE TAKE AND take some more !

                    All while smiling and telling us much we're going to like it. ... sounds perverse does it not ???

                    Interesting that the "party" that's so quick to accuse others of perversions, has it perfected it to a form of art !

                    Thank Heavens their latest artistic creation is finally being dismantled !

                    ----------------------------------------------------------

                    The best part of this week's vast tax-cut reform package, set to be approved this morning, is the end of the hellish Obamacare mandate.

                    What a massive relief to millions of Americans, stuck between the rock of having to buy overpriced, underdelivering Obamacare health insurance policies, and the hard place of paying large, gratuitous fines, which the Supreme Court ruled a tax, if they didn't.

                    It's the most questionably legal, and outrageously bad law since Prohibition because it's literally a life tax. Obamacare law up until now requires that everyone stuck in the individual market must either buy these costly policies or be taxed for being alive without one. It's not like states requiring the purchase of car insurance, as some have claimed. In that instance, one always has the choice to not drive a car. One doesn't have the choice to be alive. To Obamacare boosters, being alive is being obliged to buy Obamacare.

                    It's also a poverty tax. It's an actual punishment tax for being poor. Typically, these one-size-fits-all policies are so overpriced based on the kinds of costly coverage they require, such as pregnancy care and drug addition rehab, that they aren't affordable without subsidies.

                    ....

                    Overpriced Obamacare policies on the individual market has made purchase of health care insurance impossible for millions of Americans, and those are the ones who pay the fines. A recent survey of Obamacare fines shows that most fines are coming in from the poorer range of Americans, meaning this poverty tax has slammed the working and lower middle classes hardest of all.

                    The 2017 tax data offer new evidence that there's much to be gained by moving away from the individual mandate and much to lose by sticking with it. Tax returns that had been processed as of April 27 included 4 million that paid ObamaCare fines (officially known as individual shared responsibility payments), with an average payment of $708.
                    What is striking about the data is that the average payment is barely higher than the minimum payment of $695. Since people were required to pay the greater of $695 or 2.5% of taxable income above the filing threshold ($10,350 in 2017), one takeaway is that most of the $2.8 billion in fines paid through April appear to have come from people with modest to moderate incomes.

                    .....the phenomena is so bad it's made the middle class "the new uninsured."

                    And that brings us to the third point: It's unaffordable and anti-health, mocking the very Affordable Care Act name it claims to embody. How does paying for health care policies the size of a mortgage help the middle class? How is that not punitive taxation? And how does paying fines affect the ordinary Americans who cannot afford the mortgage-sized Obamacare policies? Well consider that paying fines pretty well keeps millions of Americans from paying for plans they can afford - smaller plans not in the Obamacare cavalcade of offerings, plans which are not larded up with pregnancy, pediatric dental and drug treatment coverage, or policies that that include the kind of health care that some buyers need, such as dental care, which is not included in Obamacare policies. If one is spending all of one's health care dollars on fines, you can bet these buyers aren't going to have a lot left for checkups, mammograms, replacing a tooth or getting a crown. Some health care.

                    What a massive relief it is for millions of Americans to be released from the Obamacare mandate.



                    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ished_off.html

                    ================================================== ===========

                    The money spent trying to get America to accept the fraud of obamas "care," is bad enough.

                    That our government arranged and funded a sort brainwashing team to attempt it, shows us how they think of us.

                    Not as citizens, people they work for, but as sheep, people to be "guided" and fleeced.

                    -------------------------------------------------

                    ...the Obama IRS coordinated with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and the Obama White House Behavioral Sciences “Team” in a $5 million program to pressure Americans to sign up for Obamacare.

                    In September 2016, IRS Director of Individual Taxation Janet McCubbin writes to several of her colleagues:

                    Attached are drafts of the letters that IRS will send to selected taxpayers who paid a penalty for failure to have coverage or who claimed an exemption form the coverage requirement for tax year 2015 … As you know, we are planning to send several different versions of the letter to see which types of messages work best.

                    ***

                    These letters have been drafted with input from the White House Behavioral Sciences Team and CMS, and have been approved by CMS. And IRS staff provided a lot of assistance on the PDF.

                    The White House Behavioral Sciences Team was established in 2015 by an Obama Executive Order directing federal agencies to adopt research about how people make decisions into policy development.

                    The documents show that the agencies spent at least $5 million to develop the letters ..

                    HHS may have overstepped its authority by threatening people with penalty fees.

                    ..“So now we have more evidence of more Obama IRS abuses targeting innocent Americans – all in the name of Obamacare,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “No wonder it took a federal lawsuit and court order to get these documents—as they show the Obama White House and its agencies were happy to threaten and treat Americans like lab rats in order to bolster Obamacare.”


                    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...gal-questions/


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                    • Thank goodness Obamacare is being dismantled. Now we can personally negotiate with our health care providers for our care. That will work for our primary care; what does that cost, maybe $400 per year, for two visits? Maybe throw in the blood labs for one low price.

                      Next up, the righties will illuminate their fellow citizens on getting affordable care for catastrophic ailments, like cancer, broken bones, failed organs and the like. Don't worry about the chirping crickets, folks. In just a few days, they'll come up with a buncha ideas to pay for those big-ticket items. Bake sales? Appeals on local news? Specialists working for a good, home cooked meal? ...I expect the crickets will be chirping for a very long time...

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                      • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                        Thank goodness Obamacare is being dismantled. Now we can personally negotiate with our health care providers for our care. That will work for our primary care; what does that cost, maybe $400 per year, for two visits? Maybe throw in the blood labs for one low price.

                        Next up, the righties will illuminate their fellow citizens on getting affordable care for catastrophic ailments, like cancer, broken bones, failed organs and the like. Don't worry about the chirping crickets, folks. In just a few days, they'll come up with a buncha ideas to pay for those big-ticket items. Bake sales? Appeals on local news? Specialists working for a good, home cooked meal? ...I expect the crickets will be chirping for a very long time...
                        Catastrophic policies were available before Obamacare and at a reasonable price.

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                        • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

                          Catastrophic policies were available before Obamacare and at a reasonable price.
                          Make them available again at a reasonable price. Pre-existing conditions included. Add in a medical mortgage for individuals who knew they would need it, but went without insurance and try to stick their fellow citizens with a huge bill, and we have a deal.

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                          • Yes, it's true. Now that we've had imbeciles like barack, nancy and hairy messing with things they had no business messing with, there's going to be some messes to clean up and some time needed to correct the problems created.

                            We can cry and whine and pee and groan about the fact that we occasionally need medical care and sometimes it's expensive.

                            We might even consider some of the reasons it's gotten so expensive and find ways to ease/lessen these burdens ?

                            Of course this will take some honesty and that's something that gets harder to find when a lot of money is involved. Even so, there are those that are willing to tell the truth and uncover many of the unnecessary reasons medical care has gotten more costly than it needs to be.

                            That people are now free to make choices about buying medical insurance is good.

                            Freedom is what made America the great country it is, let's not lose it with dreams and fantasies about socialism. Socialism isn't compatible with our species, it never has been. Study history.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                              Make them available again at a reasonable price. Pre-existing conditions included. Add in a medical mortgage for individuals who knew they would need it, but went without insurance and try to stick their fellow citizens with a huge bill, and we have a deal.
                              They will become available again because the individual mandate just went away and that required that people buy qualifying policies. Now they can buy what they want and have no tax penalty.

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                              • Can I buy a catastrophic policy that kicks in above $5,000, covers pre-existing conditions, and is affordable ($300 or less per person per month)? Will the individual at significant risk, who chose to go without insurance be required to pay a 40 year "medical debt" mortgage, so my local tax bill is controlled? Without that mortgage deal, my costs are merely being transferred to "local tax" on top of my catastrophic premium.

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