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Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

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  • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

    Originally posted by Lutherf View Post
    The purpose of the ACA was never to make health care better or more affordable. The only real purpose it ever had was to make more people reliant on the federal government and to relieve the states of some of their power. This is all just another small step toward nationalization of all major industries and the destruction of the Republic.

    We are dealing with a rather large faction in this country that is anti-capitalist and anti-individualism. Their goal is creating a direct democracy. What they generally fail to realize is that such a political model is only one step removed from totalitarianism but they seem bound and determined to find out the hard way.

    In some ways I look at this as the "rebellious teen" years of our nation. These people are saying "we've done it your way and now we want to do it our way" but, like most teenagers, they fail to see that their ideas are not new and that their forebears set things up the way they did to protect from the dangers of starry eyed ideological utopianism.
    The US as rebellious teenager. Hmm. I got 2, one more so than the other, but yeah, I can see that.

    Hopefully, as in the vast majority of teenagers, the US will survive this stupidity, and come out the other side a bit wiser for the experience. But that's really up to the ever falling and ever failing interest in politics of the electorate, isn't it?

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    • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

      Originally posted by Lutherf View Post
      The purpose of the ACA was never to make health care better or more affordable. The only real purpose it ever had was to make more people reliant on the federal government and to relieve the states of some of their power. This is all just another small step toward nationalization of all major industries and the destruction of the Republic.

      We are dealing with a rather large faction in this country that is anti-capitalist and anti-individualism. Their goal is creating a direct democracy. What they generally fail to realize is that such a political model is only one step removed from totalitarianism but they seem bound and determined to find out the hard way.

      In some ways I look at this as the "rebellious teen" years of our nation. These people are saying "we've done it your way and now we want to do it our way" but, like most teenagers, they fail to see that their ideas are not new and that their forebears set things up the way they did to protect from the dangers of starry eyed ideological utopianism.
      1000% correct sir you nailed. It!

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      • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

        Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
        The US as rebellious teenager. Hmm. I got 2, one more so than the other, but yeah, I can see that.

        Hopefully, as in the vast majority of teenagers, the US will survive this stupidity, and come out the other side a bit wiser for the experience. But that's really up to the ever falling and ever failing interest in politics of the electorate, isn't it?
        The key to surviving teenage rebellion (as I'm sure you know) is prior good parenting and sticking to the high standards you've established over the years. If the government does that then we'll be fine. If, on the other hand, they succumb to the whims of the child then the whole shithouse will burn down.

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        • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

          Originally posted by Lutherf View Post
          The key to surviving teenage rebellion (as I'm sure you know) is prior good parenting and sticking to the high standards you've established over the years. If the government does that then we'll be fine. If, on the other hand, they succumb to the whims of the child then the whole shithouse will burn down.
          Humph...

          Chained naked in the basement works just as well...

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          • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

            Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
            Straw...
            NYS doles out more than it gets.
            Fact. Want to compare insurance rates?

            I don't think you're going to care much for the comparison. And before you start trying...badly to talk about how much better your hospital is than mine....remember mine is the one of the top hospitals on the planet. Won't take me 3 hours to try and wade through traffic to get there either.

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            • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

              Originally posted by 9aces View Post
              Fact. Want to compare insurance rates?

              I don't think you're going to care much for the comparison. And before you start trying...badly to talk about how much better your hospital is than mine....remember mine is the one of the top hospitals on the planet. Won't take me 3 hours to try and wade through traffic to get there either.
              You're going to compare anywhere on the planet to NYC?
              By the way, I have NO IDEA where you live...the mind?
              By the way, I can get to any hospital in NYC within 45 minutes.
              Our traffic problems are highly exaggerated.

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              • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                Final thought for the night before I turn in.

                Interesting to note that Obamacare was touted by Obama the administration liberals progressive and Democrats everywhere as a great thing, only to be left careening back and forth between radical over corrections to correct try and correct its course.

                Similar to the careening back and forth over a presidential red line and congressional deals before Putin threw a life line and calmed things down.

                Interesting similarity of presidential (not really presidential) and administration reaction if you think about it.

                Yeah, this guy is no leader. Not for a small business much less an entire country, much less the worlds only remaining super power.

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                • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                  Here's a quote from that link: "
                  We will make it illegal for an insurance company to deny coverage to someone with prior coverage on the basis of a pre-existing condition, eliminate annual and lifetime spending caps, and prevent insurers from dropping your coverage just because you get sick. We will incentivize states to develop innovative...
                  IOW, someone without prior coverage could be denied coverage on the basis of a pre-existing condition. How many other loopholes would there be in a GOP bill? Junk insurance is protected as well, which still dumps unpaid emergency room bills on local taxpayers. Hidden costs which yet make the federal budget look disciplined, because expenses are kicked downstairs.

                  Originally posted by Texan View Post
                  So in your Eutopia, pharm companies, doctors, and insurance companies won't make money. A benevolent socialist government will take care of everybody. There will be no fraud, waste, or partisan favoritism. Everyone will hold hands and sing because big brother will take care of them.

                  With the insurance companies out of business and big parma not allowed to make money for R&D, how will 0bamacare work? 0bama will push single payer so the government takes over the job of the insurance companies and pharmacy. After all of our eggs are in one basket, who will make sure that this doesn't bankrupt us like every other government agency is already doing? Is this what the people voted for? It's better to repeal the whole mess and start over finding a workable solution.
                  Yeah, unless you've read my other posts on a preferred solution. Non-profits, for-profits, gov't. and private sector going up against each other (and with each other) to provide an adequate service to everyone who works, and every able-bodied person is either working or gets workfare. The disabled and low-income already get Medicaid, so that just about covers everybody.
                  Docs and everyone else in the industry make good money, but they also make crushing loans to get licensed. We all pay for that now, so maybe that could be subsidized. Work off the loan in part by completing a few years in public service. They should continue to make as much money as they can demand; I wouldn't have it any other way. With more people being able to afford med school, their demand would have it's natural limits.

                  All terribly confusing to both the "capitalist solution" and "progressive solution" fanatics, I understand. How would everybody get involved? Who is going to pay the bills?
                  Answer most questions by answering one: "who will pay the bills". Everyone. I'm against free medical care, not even dirt poor people should get free care. Workfare cooks in cost, so they pay at least a portion of their medical care. Everyone in the lower 80% gets mediocre care, because that's what we get right now. Of course, if someone here can tell us just how much their monthly premium (unsubsidized by anyone else) costs for the "best healthcare in the world", we can compare apples to apples. Non-profits can cut out anywhere from 5-30% of cost, comparing for-profits to non-profits in various markets. Some markets (ex. Frozen Cheeks, Montana) are isolated and would require subsidizing facilities and staff to locate nearby, but most people would be served in larger, urban markets. Apply this to both health care providers and health care insurance, throw in a regulatory structure carefully developed by the "Big Three" (gummint, for-profits and non-profits), with the objective of lowering costs -same quality- to the end user, and go for it.

                  Monopoly care (gov't. or otherwise) sucks. Overhead (30%) for cutting edge technology available only to someone else, sucks. Subsidizing someone else's junk insurance at the emergency room, no objectives, no benchmarks for cost structure, no loan payback incentives for newly licensed medical staff, too little involvement of medical professionals in developing policy, too much involvement and agenda-driven policy by politicians, etc. etc. That's why we're here, basically. We're depending on politicians, who restrict the solutions to capitalism vs. socialism and public administration. With no coherent business plan that benefits the citizen patient first, health care providers second.

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                  • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                    And the train wreck that is Obamacare continues, except now, more and more people are realizing just how bad this law is.
                    November 14, 2013
                    Americans' Approval of Healthcare Law Declines
                    Currently 40% approve and 55% disapprove
                    by Jeffrey M. Jones

                    PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans' views of the 2010 healthcare law have worsened in recent weeks, with 40% approving and 55% disapproving of it. For most of the past year, Americans have been divided on the law, usually tilting slightly toward disapproval. The now 15-percentage-point gap between disapproval and approval is the largest Gallup has measured in the past year.


                    The results are based on Gallup's annual Health and Healthcare poll, conducted Nov. 7-10.

                    Currently, 73% of Democrats, 39% of independents, and 8% of Republicans approve of the healthcare law. Approval is down at least marginally among all three groups since Gallup's last update in late October.
                    Americans' Approval of Healthcare Law Declines

                    On the far right side of the graph, you can see the trajectories, which I can only assume will continue on that slope.

                    November 14, 2013
                    More Americans Mention Healthcare as Top Problem in U.S.
                    Dysfunctional government still ranks as top issue, with 26% mentioning it
                    by Alyssa Brown

                    WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The percentage of Americans mentioning healthcare as the country's most important problem increased to 19% in November from 12% in October, as technical issues with the federal health insurance website continue and the White House faces criticism over people being dropped from their health plans. Healthcare now ranks second behind dissatisfaction with government as the top problem, but ahead of the economy in general, unemployment, and the federal debt.


                    Mentions of poor healthcare or the high cost of healthcare as a top problem in the Nov. 7-10 survey have nearly doubled since September and are higher now than in any month since the Affordable Care Act become law in March 2010. This suggests that recent troubles with the federal health exchange website and other problems with the healthcare law's rollout, including accusations that President Barack Obama misled Americans about keeping their current coverage, may be fueling public concern.
                    More Americans Mention Healthcare as Top Problem in U.S.

                    All the web site problems and all the insurance plan cancellations have had an impact. Now far more believe that health care is a far more serious problem, specifically poor healthcare and it's high cost.

                    What say you, all you Obamacare supporters? You all STILL think that it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread?
                    The nation would seem to disagree with you.

                    Realistically, Obama, the administration, and the Democrats are going to respond. They have to respond. Their political lives, which mean more to them than their real lives, depends on it.

                    If they agree to delay the entirety of Obamacare for 1 year, all they are going to do is to delay the inevitable damage that Obamacare causes, and it seems to me that the electorate have come to realize this.

                    If they agree to repeal Obamacare, they'll still end up paying a dearly for this fiasco, and I seriously doubt that they'll ever do that; that they'll ever even consider that.

                    Yup. The Lemmings HAVE followed Obama over the cliff. Well, just politically, really.
                    Last edited by eohrnberger; 11-14-2013, 06:15 AM.

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                    • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                      And more costs keep coming.

                      Public college cites high cost of Obamacare in canceling students&#39; health plans

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                      • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                        Looks like yet another broken Obamacare will be promise. Wasnt one of the main points for foisting this POS legislation on the American public supposed to be because people with preexisting conditions couldnt get the life-saving coverage they needed? Im ambivalent about Palin, but it appears one of points she was mocked for making is coming a little too close to reality;

                        ObamaCare is supposed to be a huge boon for anyone with a pre-existing condition. Count that another promise broken: Its actually denying care because of pre-existing conditions.

                        Millions of Americans with cancer and other chronic illnesses will wind up paying more for lifesaving care, if they can get it all.

                        To keep costs down, the White House designed ObamaCare plans as cut-rate HMOs. The low profit margins have forced insurers to downsize the number of doctors and hospitals in their networks and to slash what they cover for out-of-network treatment.

                        So most ObamaCare plans dont include the vast majority of the best cancer doctors and cancer centers. Thats a huge problem for these patients. As Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a former Medicare official, writes: Cancer patients often need the help of specialized doctors and cancer institutions that wont make it into many of these cheapened networks.

                        All across the country, leading cancer centers including New Yorks Memorial Sloan Kettering are excluded by the largest plans. In Washington state, the largest exchange plans exclude world-class cancer care for kids such as the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. Californias state-of-the-art Cedars-Sinai cancer center isnt in any ObamaCare plan. Only a few plans include the Mayo Clinic.
                        Death by Obamacare: ‘Reform’ reams cancer patients | New York Post

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                        • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                          Originally posted by CYDdharta View Post
                          Looks like yet another broken Obamacare will be promise. Wasn’t one of the main points for foisting this POS legislation on the American public supposed to be because people with preexisting conditions couldn’t get the life-saving coverage they needed? I’m ambivalent about Palin, but it appears one of points she was mocked for making is coming a little too close to reality;



                          Death by Obamacare: ‘Reform’ reams cancer patients | New York Post
                          We've heard about death panels that came with Obamacare. Just didn't realize that they'd be coming this quick.

                          ?


                          • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                            WASHINGTON – President Obama will allow insurance companies to continue offering individual health plans that do not meet the standards of the Affordable Care Act through next year, according to a Democratic source on Capitol Hill familiar with the plans.

                            The plan, which the president will announce Thursday morning, is intended to placate millions of consumers who have received cancellation notices from insurers in recent weeks. Obama had repeatedly promised that consumers would be able to keep plans that they liked.

                            The president was under intense pressure from Democrats on Capitol Hill to find a fix. House Democrats have increasingly threatened to support a Republican proposal due for a vote Friday. And Democratic senators have offered their own legislative fixes.

                            Under the president’s plan, insurance companies will not be required to upgrade plans for people in the individual market for a year and will be allowed to offer consumers the chance to renew existing plans.

                            The companies will be required to notify consumers of new protections under the healthcare law that their old plans don't include and to inform them of the new options available in the online marketplaces.
                            Obama will allow insurance companies to extend current plans - latimes.com

                            Well, he really didn't have much of a choice on this. But this is just delaying the inevitable impact of Obamacare. It does nothing to resolve the underlying issues with the law which were the source of the uproar.

                            Now, can / will the insurance companies reinstate the plans that they sent cancellation notices on?

                            From what I understand, the Obamacare plans were structured based on the assumption that X number of people with Y medical needs signed up. Since it's clear that no one is going to voluntarily increase their medical care expenses just to have one of these shiny new Obamacare plans, will those assumptions allow the business model to survive?

                            If the business model can't or doesn't survive, the insurance companies won't reinstate the cancelled plans, and then Obama and the administration can wag their fingers and blame shift the mess to the evil and greedy insurance companies.

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                            • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                              Press conference is coming up in the next few minutes where he will discuss this issue and I am sure several others (like the dismal numbers of those signing up.)

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                              • Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

                                Since Republicans are High Information Voters, is there an official PDF or any type of document available on the web to indicate that Palin or anybody else has access to hard data?
                                And please don't respond with OPINION POLLS or "Someone somewhere said...".
                                The ACA may very well be as big of a disaster as it's rollout, but I'd like to see some hard evidence.

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