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Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

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  • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
    You misunderstand the capitalist negotiation between doctor and patient. It works like this: Dr: "I recommend that you get this operation, then take this new medication". Patient: "I'm not sure my insurance covers that, Dr." Dr (sighs): "You're right, I forgot you are covered by LameAxe Insurance Co. We can keep you somewhat healthy if you take this generic medicine and you avoid eating XYZ from now on. I would definitely recommend you fill out patient directives and power of attorney within the next 10 years, however."

    See what I mean? You provided an example of socialist (legal) restrictions on medical care. I just provided an example of the capitalist restriction. Even if an employer self-insures (say they have a very large number of employees), they still must negotiate the level of care and restrictions to that care, along with the costs. Private or public, it all boils down to a contract for services, which will most likely be more rigid and less flexible when it comes to negotiating cost and level of care.

    In short, death panels always existed, always will. Capitalism or socialism, the restrictions will be there.
    Your scenario only applies because of the gov't regulations regarding healthcare. Restrictions and costs put on the Doctors does not allow Doctors to be generous with health services that can help to keep a patient alive or function healthier while alive. If as you say their has always been death panels, why do you believe the death panel in a socialized healthcare system is better than in the capitalized system?

    And death panel is not an accurate description to the capitalistic healthcare system. Death panels in the socialized system are actual panels, groups of people who do not know, care about or understand the situation of the individual. Decisions being made not based on the individual life, but deciding which biological body gets to live, not looking at the patient as a human being, but whether it is cost effective to let body # 7,694 live or not, deciding the value of of that individuals life. A true Death Panel. Explain to me who is the death panel in the Capitalized system? What group forms this panel?


    • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
      The system that was -before ACA- was well on it's way to destroying itself. Unless you believe employers and/or employees were able to afford the costs (moving upwards in double-digits some years, static cost no year within the last 20). We were supposed to afford those increases on static, real income -to put icing on that crap cake.

      ACA, among all it's other defects, might also serve as a diversion to the inevitable collapse of middle class income, and the requirement to back up the medical sector thru other financial means. Mediocre medical care was inevitable in the old system, but it will be easily criticized as some new condition "created" by ACA.
      Yes, Hillary's creation of HMO plans were on the way to destruction, but that is no surprise. It was never the Dem's plan for this system to be implemented as a better healthcare system. It was designed well knowing it would eventually implode. It was the stepping stone to socialized healthcare, roping the public in slowly so they don't realize. The used the HMO plan system to break the existing indemnity plan system. So now HMO is imploding so the door is open to ACA to claim to fix the problems and allow the advantages continue. Though that was not true, was it? ACA is not a bettering of our healthcare system. It is presented as the only way out of problematic health system, a problematic health system created by Hilary and the Democrats themselves.

      The indemnity plan system is not perfect, no health care system is perfect, but it most certainly is the fairest and best system.

      While socialized medicine will solve some problems it will create different ones. And the different problems it creates falls solely on the middle class. ACA has redirected death and illness from the poor to the middle class. Not a better system. Just a system that endorses taking from the middle class and giving to poor.


      • This is the kind of garbage all of us are going to have to deal with now that we have mental incompetents (government busy-bodies) involved in our health insurance.



        So after months of the run-around, Waterman and her three children marched into the Healthplanfinder's Olympia office refusing to leave until they found solution. In those upstairs offices, she sat talking to staff for three hours.



        So she had to go there and refuse to leave until Thing1 and Thing2 "solved" her problem. This is just the beginning of it folks.

        Enjoy -


        • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
          This is the kind of garbage all of us are going to have to deal with now that we have mental incompetents (government busy-bodies) involved in our health insurance.



          So after months of the run-around, Waterman and her three children marched into the Healthplanfinder's Olympia office refusing to leave until they found solution. In those upstairs offices, she sat talking to staff for three hours.



          So she had to go there and refuse to leave until Thing1 and Thing2 "solved" her problem. This is just the beginning of it folks.

          Enjoy -
          Oh boy. I can hardly wait. (*Sarcasm*)


          • Exciting isn't it ?

            Unless this foolishness is taken apart and completely dismantled, this kind of thing will be a regular part of our lives when we need or have to access "healthcare."

            But who is going to do that ?


            • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
              Exciting isn't it ?

              Unless this foolishness is taken apart and completely dismantled, this kind of thing will be a regular part of our lives when we need or have to access "healthcare."

              But who is going to do that ?
              The Republicans have taken the first step in making adjustments to ObamaCare. But it's expected that Obama's going to pull out his veto pen.

              I speak, of course, of the proposal to bring the ObamaCare definition of a full time job into alignment with the reality, 30 hours a week vs. 40 hours a week. Of course, it would disqualify a number of part time workers from receive the glorious (cough) benefits of ObamaCare, so there's resistance to this change. It doesn't take long for people to become addicted and dependent on the government subsidies.

              The thing is that this was foreseen before ObamaCare even left the House of Representatives, yet totally ignored by the ObamaCare supporters.


              • Another lie:

                Again President Obamas promise not to fund abortion on demand, continues to be broken. Its not just a lie that was done once, it gets replicated year in and year out because what he said got the votes to procure enactment of that egregiously flawed legislation.


                • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                  He lies to the electorate, the nation, foreign leaders, Republicans and Democrats alike. He's just a liar. An equal opportunity liar.


                  • Embattled Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services Administrator Marilyn Tavenner is resigning her post overseeing Obamacare just months after she admitted that the Obama White Houses highly publicized 8 million Obamacare enrollment figure was inflated by at least 1.3 million.


                    • I don't understand why they were getting excited and hysterical about enrollment numbers in the first place (key word is enrollment)? Enrollment means absolutely nothing until the enrollee has paid their premium.

                      It's like getting all excited that 8 million people have created a profile at some website, but because they haven't paid the $9.95/monthly fee, they are unable to use its services.


                      • Liars Remorse

                        Democrats have second thoughts about Obamacare

                        Charles Schumer of New York, in the remnant of Democrats whose Senate careers have survived Obamacare, voiced similar sentiments in a National Press Club speech three weeks after the 2014 elections. Democrats blew the opportunity the American people gave them in 2008, Schumer said. We took their mandate and put all of our focus on the wrong problemhealth care reform. Arguing that 85 percent of Americans had health insurance they were satisfied with when Democrats took power in 2009, and few of the uninsured voted at all, much less on the basis of health policy, Schumer contended, To aim a huge change in mandate at such a small percentage of the electorate made no political sense.
                        The voters cognitive deficiencies are a retrospective problem for Democrats, as Tomasky and Hiltzik point out, but also a prospective one. They mean that new government interventions cannot be secured through candor and clarity, but require guile and subterfuge, a position made clear by MIT economics professor and Obama administration adviser Jonathan Gruber. Explaining, in 2012, why the Affordable Care Act taxes insurance companies, which will pass along the costs to policyholders, rather than taxing the insured directly, Gruber said, Its a very clever, you know, basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter.
                        In 2013 he told a University of Pennsylvania audience that the ACA was written in a tortured way so that neither the Congressional Budget Office nor the public would see its individual mandate to buy heath insurance as a new tax. Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage, Gruber concluded. Call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to getting the thing to pass.


                        • IRS Has Active Contract For MILLIONS With Company HHS FIRED Over Botched



                          • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                            IRS Has Active Contract For MILLIONS With Company HHS FIRED Over Botched

                            Obama administration exhibiting their usual business decision acumen, or it may be pay back for political favors with ax payer dollars.


                            • Originally posted by jotathought View Post

                              I don't understand why they were getting excited and hysterical about enrollment numbers in the first place (key word is enrollment)? Enrollment means absolutely nothing until the enrollee has paid their premium.

                              It's like getting all excited that 8 million people have created a profile at some website, but because they haven't paid the $9.95/monthly fee, they are unable to use its services.
                              Good comparison! Why is it so hard for others to figure out the health insurance and health care are not the same thing?


                              • Obamacare program costs $50,000 in taxpayer money for every American who gets health insurance, says bombshell budget report

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