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Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

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  • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
    Obamacare program costs $50,000 in taxpayer money for every American who gets health insurance, says bombshell budget report

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3Py5wUMTc
    I wonder as to the veracity of that.

    ?


    • How One Nebraska Woman Lost Her Health Insurance Three Times Under Obamacare

      http://dailysignal.com/2015/02/17/on...mes-obamacare/

      ?


      • Glitch: 'I Have to Pay Back My Obamacare Subsidy'

        http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...bsidy-n1959747

        This should get the Dems a few extra votes in 2016

        ?


        • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
          Glitch: 'I Have to Pay Back My Obamacare Subsidy'


          http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...bsidy-n1959747

          This should get the Dems a few extra votes in 2016
          Let's hope so.

          Cicero said:

          "Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the 'new, wonderful good society' which shall now be Rome, interpreted to mean 'more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.'"

          ... History repeats itself. May God have mercy on America more than He had on Rome.

          ?


          • More Obamacare ObamaCRAP.

            This communist bullshit HAS to be gotten rid of !!

            -----------------------------------------------------------

            Some Washington Healthplanfinder customers say they had a rude awakening Tuesday morning. They received an email from the state's health plan website informing them that this month the site would be debiting triple the amount they usually owe.

            "We have our insurance premiums set up within WA Healthplanfinder as a monthly automatic payment. This month they took out 3 months worth premiums at one time. They were not authorized to do this, they just did it, " wrote one woman in an email to KING 5.

            "I got tripped (sic) billed as well. I also called and waited on phone and no one picked up after a long wait. This is terrible," wrote Azhar Basit in his Facebook post.

            Customers who contacted KING 5 said that the notification was for the money to be withdrawn from their account Tuesday.

            Those who were able to get through on the customer helpline said they were told Healthplanfinder would stop the withdrawal. It is unclear what will happen for those customers who do not call, cannot get through, or are unaware of the problem.


            http://www.krem.com/story/news/local...ount/23952641/

            ?


            • Right, let's get rid of the communist bullshit. And replace it with ....what?
              -The double digit inflation in the old system? Even with employer subsidies of health care premium payments, that system was doomed to failure. Flat real wage + double digit inflation = failure to pay. Double digits will eventually break even the deeper pockets of the employer.
              -The GOP proposal to provide vouchers, a subsidy to citizens to pay their own premiums and other health care costs? See above, only substitute "government" for "employer".

              Supposing either party proposed opening up non-profit organizations crossing state lines, and gave us all some straight talk about "first tier" and "second tier" health care, we just might have a solution. First tier goes to the independently wealthy. The rest of us get 2nd rate care -which is what we usually get currently- but cutting out pricey privileges (example, for customized cancer medicine costing thousands per dose). That might cut double-digit medical inflation to an affordable cost/wage ratio.

              Since both political parties dance to the for-profit company's tune, the non-profits were ignored in both proposals (Dems communist plan and GOP Voucher market miracle). Since both parties won't openly slap the voter's face (by telling us we are just too poor to afford top-notch medical care), we won't get a realistic cost/income ratio on the final product.

              ?


              • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                Right, let's get rid of the communist bullshit. And replace it with ....what?
                -The double digit inflation in the old system? Even with employer subsidies of health care premium payments, that system was doomed to failure. Flat real wage + double digit inflation = failure to pay. Double digits will eventually break even the deeper pockets of the employer.
                -The GOP proposal to provide vouchers, a subsidy to citizens to pay their own premiums and other health care costs? See above, only substitute "government" for "employer".

                Supposing either party proposed opening up non-profit organizations crossing state lines, and gave us all some straight talk about "first tier" and "second tier" health care, we just might have a solution. First tier goes to the independently wealthy. The rest of us get 2nd rate care -which is what we usually get currently- but cutting out pricey privileges (example, for customized cancer medicine costing thousands per dose). That might cut double-digit medical inflation to an affordable cost/wage ratio.

                Since both political parties dance to the for-profit company's tune, the non-profits were ignored in both proposals (Dems communist plan and GOP Voucher market miracle). Since both parties won't openly slap the voter's face (by telling us we are just too poor to afford top-notch medical care), we won't get a realistic cost/income ratio on the final product.

                You completely ignore market forces. Those double digit increases would stop when people could no longer afford them People can only pay what they can pay. Now that the government has a hand in the pie, those increases will soar because the government's supply of money is endless. At least that's the way the libs look at it. Before the government got involved in student loans for college, tuition and costs were limited by what people would pay. Today, those costs have soared because the government will lend whatever it takes. There is no limit to what you can borrow. When costs are regulated by the free market, the system works fine. We didn't have this huge inflation in health care costs until the government started paying bills with someone else's money.

                ?


                • Here's one source that analyzes the causes of medical care inflation:
                  http://www.frbsf.org/economic-resear...ending-growth/
                  -Most of the cost is driven by more people enrolling in health care plans and receiving treatment. IOW, Higher demand + stable supply = higher prices

                  One Forbes article notes administrative costs and technology as major drivers:
                  The bulk of medical procedure payments go to hospitals and device manufactures.

                  http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...lthcare-costs/

                  There you have it, market forces noted. And you are right: If we had fewer people demanding medical services, prices would fall. Of course, people who work typically expect access to basic medical care. That has likely been the case since the beginning of the human race. This still supports my position, to set up a two-tier system of care. Refusing to provide affordable care at all -to a person working full time- would violate what is seen as a natural right. It is that perception which drives the majorities' negative reaction to the libertarians' "market forces" medical care proposal. Small gov't. fans have a way forward (again, the two-tier, non profit model), but they either won't take that route because they are manipulated by for profit providers, or they are too small in number to be heard by the nation.

                  ?


                  • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                    Here's one source that analyzes the causes of medical care inflation:
                    http://www.frbsf.org/economic-resear...ending-growth/
                    -Most of the cost is driven by more people enrolling in health care plans and receiving treatment. IOW, Higher demand + stable supply = higher prices

                    One Forbes article notes administrative costs and technology as major drivers:
                    [/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
                    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...lthcare-costs/

                    There you have it, market forces noted. And you are right: If we had fewer people demanding medical services, prices would fall. Of course, people who work typically expect access to basic medical care. That has likely been the case since the beginning of the human race. This still supports my position, to set up a two-tier system of care. Refusing to provide affordable care at all -to a person working full time- would violate what is seen as a natural right. It is that perception which drives the majorities' negative reaction to the libertarians' "market forces" medical care proposal. Small gov't. fans have a way forward (again, the two-tier, non profit model), but they either won't take that route because they are manipulated by for profit providers, or they are too small in number to be heard by the nation.

                    You have no natural right to my income. You have a right to what you can afford.

                    ?


                    • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                      Right, let's get rid of the communist bullshit. And replace it with ....what?
                      -The double digit inflation in the old system? Even with employer subsidies of health care premium payments, that system was doomed to failure. Flat real wage + double digit inflation = failure to pay. Double digits will eventually break even the deeper pockets of the employer.
                      -The GOP proposal to provide vouchers, a subsidy to citizens to pay their own premiums and other health care costs? See above, only substitute "government" for "employer".

                      Supposing either party proposed opening up non-profit organizations crossing state lines, and gave us all some straight talk about "first tier" and "second tier" health care, we just might have a solution. First tier goes to the independently wealthy. The rest of us get 2nd rate care -which is what we usually get currently- but cutting out pricey privileges (example, for customized cancer medicine costing thousands per dose). That might cut double-digit medical inflation to an affordable cost/wage ratio.

                      Since both political parties dance to the for-profit company's tune, the non-profits were ignored in both proposals (Dems communist plan and GOP Voucher market miracle). Since both parties won't openly slap the voter's face (by telling us we are just too poor to afford top-notch medical care), we won't get a realistic cost/income ratio on the final product.
                      ... corruption...

                      By what reasoning does it have to "be replaced" at all ?

                      Keeping other pinheads out of my personal business (all of it) is about one thing; freedom.

                      Anyone with more than a thimble-full of good sense does not want some faceless bureaucrat deciding what he/she can or cannot do about his/her health and lifestyle choices/decisions.

                      The "govt." has absolutely no business in this area. None.

                      How they got involved in it has to do with nothing more than corruption, from the citizens all the way up to themselves !

                      Parties ? What parties ? The united states government has become nothing more than a criminal syndicate disguised as something else. A small group of arrogant narcissists "deciding what's best" for the rest of us.

                      Makes me sick. America needs a doctor - not the medical type !


                      ?


                      • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                        ... corruption...

                        By what reasoning does it have to "be replaced" at all ?

                        Keeping other pinheads out of my personal business (all of it) is about one thing; freedom.

                        Anyone with more than a thimble-full of good sense does not want some faceless bureaucrat deciding what he/she can or cannot do about his/her health and lifestyle choices/decisions.

                        The "govt." has absolutely no business in this area. None.

                        How they got involved in it has to do with nothing more than corruption, from the citizens all the way up to themselves !

                        Parties ? What parties ? The united states government has become nothing more than a criminal syndicate disguised as something else. A small group of arrogant narcissists "deciding what's best" for the rest of us.

                        Makes me sick. America needs a doctor - not the medical type !


                        It would have to be replaced for the government to have control over your life. The more the government provides, the more they control. The more they take from you and dole back with strings attached, the more they control you. It's all about power over your life.

                        ?


                        • The problem with the idea of keeping pinheads out is that unless you want to pay for every operation yourself you will have insurance so someone will be deciding if your coverage will cover any procedure you may need so again you will be at the mercy of some pinhead or another.
                          This also conveniently ignores that healthcare can be run by government and is in many countries with great results. Conservatives will never admit this though.

                          ?


                          • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                            It would have to be replaced for the government to have control over your life. The more the government provides, the more they control. The more they take from you and dole back with strings attached, the more they control you. It's all about power over your life.
                            Yes, I know it is.

                            That is why it is not something the govt. has any business in.

                            Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                            The problem with the idea of keeping pinheads out is that unless you want to pay for every operation yourself you will have insurance so someone will be deciding if your coverage will cover any procedure you may need so again you will be at the mercy of some pinhead or another.
                            This also conveniently ignores that healthcare can be run by government and is in many countries with great results. Conservatives will never admit this though.
                            Why won't conservatives admit that ?

                            Oh yeah, because "healthcare can be run by government and is in many countries with great results."

                            ?


                            • Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                              The problem with the idea of keeping pinheads out is that unless you want to pay for every operation yourself you will have insurance so someone will be deciding if your coverage will cover any procedure you may need so again you will be at the mercy of some pinhead or another.
                              Why wouldn't you want to pay for your care yourself?

                              It's a simple question of responsibility. An individuals health is a function of intentional choice, genetics, and fate. Health is maintained through the combination of the labor of medical professionals, and the infrastructure that provides the space, equipment, materials, and medicines need to diagnose and cure whatever ails you. Nearly everyone right out of the womb will use that infrastructure at some point in their life, and some will use it and the the labor of said professionals more than others for a variety of reasons, including lifestyle choices. I think a case can be made for using public money to support a health care infrastructure. Regardless of how much one uses that infrastructure, they benefit because others are less likely to transmit illness to them. At the same time, socializing the use of such an infrastructure means that everyone inevitably pays for an individuals poor health choices. Left unchecked, this will inevitably force more and more government control into private life in order to prevent those expenses. Personal responsibility demands individual use is an individuals responsibility.

                              Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                              This also conveniently ignores that healthcare can be run by government and is in many countries with great results. Conservatives will never admit this though.
                              It can't be done in a truly free country. Of course, plenty of people are OK with that.

                              ?


                              • Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                                The problem with the idea of keeping pinheads out is that unless you want to pay for every operation yourself you will have insurance so someone will be deciding if your coverage will cover any procedure you may need so again you will be at the mercy of some pinhead or another.
                                This also conveniently ignores that healthcare can be run by government and is in many countries with great results. Conservatives will never admit this though.
                                Scott Walker: America Exceptional Because We Celebrate Independence from Government, Not Our Dependence On It

                                At the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) on Thursday, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker reminded conservative activists that America is exceptional because it celebrates its independence from governmentnot its dependence on it.
                                Contrasting his successful reforms in Wisconsin with President Barack Obamas desire for more federal overreach, Walker called Washington, D.C. 68 square miles surrounded by reality and blasted Obama for believing that you grow the economy by growing Washington. Walker said that success should be measured not by how many people are dependent on government but by how many people are no longer dependent on government.


                                http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...endence-on-it/

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