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Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

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  • Yes, healthcare is completely different in the UK.
    Going to see the GP costs nothing as does going to hospital but there are exceptions like dentistry (hence the old steriotype of British smiles lol) and glasses where only people on benefits or a pension get free care and because I work I have to pay for both. This is obviously paid for with general taxation and basically money isn't an issue for 99% of people who use the NHS unless you count the charges for parking but even then people who have to attend regularly get free parking.
    The only time that I know of where money is an issue is where a treatment is so prohibitively expensive that the NHS has to make the tough choice of whether or not to cover the cost and I don't envy them that choice.
    I know many in the US think this means we are more likely to go to hospital but believe me that's not the case and maybe because we're british and don't like to complain we have more people who end up with worse conditions than they need to as they don't like to bother the doctor.

    I hope that cleared it up slightly and whether or not you think our system is any good or not is up to you but it works here and we like it a lot.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • It might be fair to say, Peter and msc, that younger people in the UK wouldn't fully appreciate the differences. Older folks who got medical care before NHS got into full swing might know one from system from another. Pretty much no one from the US could appreciate the difference between high-end socialist medical care (like UK's) and the relatively free market system that was in place before ACA. Arguably, we won't appreciate the difference in the near future either, since ACA uses for-profit insurance companies on most of the exchanges. ACA is hardly socialist, therefore we'll see arguments from both left and right that this thing is a horrible experiment combining the worst of socialism and capitalism.

      As far as the death panel argument ...how many times was that zombie resurrected, on this very thread (let alone in the general press)?
      Without defining the differences in how people are denied care, anecdotal evidence has minimal value in the argument. For instance, we need to see a per person cost, approximately equal, between a high end socialist insurance provider and a (relatively) free market provider. Then list circumstances when each person would be "sentenced to death" due to a life threatening condition that will not be treated, for a person within a given income bracket.

      Pretending that the free market will provide a shorter list of death sentences than the socialist system, or vice-versa, is just that: Pretense

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Some of that great Obamacare results:
        This Longtime IHOP Owner Sold His 16 Restaurants Because of Obamacare

        “Let me state this bluntly,” Womack told lawmakers, “this law will cost my company more money than we make.”
        http://dailysignal.com/2015/03/22/th...-of-obamacare/

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
          Pretending that the free market will provide a shorter list of death sentences than the socialist system, or vice-versa, is just that: Pretense
          When you see the eye watering cost of some treatments it's hard to see how any system could afford them. Because the NHS is nationwide they often get have the scenario where do they pay massively for someone to get an extra month or so of life or do they use that money to pay for cancer care for someone who may get years or decades.
          It's not an easy answer however you pay for the treatment.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post

            When you see the eye watering cost of some treatments it's hard to see how any system could afford them. Because the NHS is nationwide they often get have the scenario where do they pay massively for someone to get an extra month or so of life or do they use that money to pay for cancer care for someone who may get years or decades.
            It's not an easy answer however you pay for the treatment.
            A recent "Investor's Business Daily" article provided very interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.



            Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:

            U.S. 65%
            England 46%
            Canada 42%


            Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
            U.S. 93%
            England 15%
            Canada 43%
            Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within sixmonths:
            U.S. 90%
            England 15%
            Canada 43%


            Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
            U.S. 77%
            England 40%
            Canada 43%




            Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
            U.S. 71
            England 14
            Canada 18


            Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in "excellent health":
            U.S. 12%
            England 2%
            Canada 6%







            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • I know for a fact (I've been in 3 of them for both diagnostic tests for my eyes and a study into the cause in Bedford, London and Nottingham) that the number of MRI scanners in the UK is increasing but we are rather short of them but it's a juggling act between running the machines we have at max capacity and buying more as they are hugely expensive.

              Having less MRI scanners all running at max capacity is not an ideal solution but it works for us and I didn't have to wait long to get a place to be seen.

              As for cancer my mum has had it twice and survived both times through treatment so all I can say from personal experience is that our system does seem to work.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • One of the reasons for the poor performance on diabetes could be that we can go and get a test and treatment regime from a pharmacy.

                http://www.webmd.boots.com/diabetes/...diabetes-tests

                It's not proof obviously but it could help explain the results.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                  I know for a fact (I've been in 3 of them for both diagnostic tests for my eyes and a study into the cause in Bedford, London and Nottingham) that the number of MRI scanners in the UK is increasing but we are rather short of them but it's a juggling act between running the machines we have at max capacity and buying more as they are hugely expensive.

                  Having less MRI scanners all running at max capacity is not an ideal solution but it works for us and I didn't have to wait long to get a place to be seen.

                  As for cancer my mum has had it twice and survived both times through treatment so all I can say from personal experience is that our system does seem to work.
                  I would think that if Canadians or the Brits were given a choice between what they have and what we had prior to obamacare, they would not choose what we had, if they were the victims of a hollowing out of the middle class and a rise in numbers in poverty. Of course, if you were in a prosperous middle class, with health insurance provided by the employee, you would keep what we had before obamacare. Personally, I can remember what my own health insurance was like before the rise of the HMOs, and it was stellar, compared to healthcare post the rise of HMOs. But I was not poor, with no health insurance.

                  I am in favor of socialized medicine, getting the private sector insurance out of healthcare. But given we are in a trend of privatizing other things that used to not be provided by corporations, like prisons and waging wars, I doubt we will ever have single payer healthcare. Too many rich folks make their income from sitting on their asses, for this to happen.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • Obamacare flying machine begins a death spiral

                    Premiums are rising rapidly and the young and healthy are bailing out


                    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz3VhyV8XYf

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • The reason that the NHS works is that everyone pays for it via tax but you have a system where people have a choice to pay or not and I can understand why some young healthy people don't feel like paying as they often don't think about what may happen if they get gravely sick.
                      Even insurance needs lots of fit people to pay for the sick but the fact that you have one party urging people not to be involved is making the job of getting the fit and healthy to sign up all the harder.
                      Whatever system you choose you need everyone to pay so that everyone can get a benefit even if you do have some people who pay and may never use the service.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • It was a mistake to do away with the catastrophic option under ACA. That would have covered the younger crowd. And protected more than a few local emergency rooms from $40k+ bills for compound fractures and other youthful mistakes that will only get paid out of public taxes. That may have helped the right wing accept the ACA, although the catastrophic option shouldn't be available for everyone; it makes sense for the wealthy at any age, but not the older generation in lower income groups.

                        As far as the overall results in OMD's post #1445, we're comparing cost vs results. They spend less than we do in the US, and get lesser results. The question is, which system is most efficient at getting results?

                        Until we have that list, we are comparing apples to oranges.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Ok, he is an example of what that right wing Obama care does to costs. Abby Martin and American gal who used to have her own show on RT News, got fired, perhaps as a result of speaking out against Putin in an organization financed by the State of Russia, but located in DC. SO, no longer having insurance, as she looked for other job, she went on the obamacare site to buy herself some health insurance, being unemployed, and discovered that the cheapest policy she could find, which was basically worthless with the extraordinary high deductions, was around 250.00 per month!!! Now, who in the hell who is out of work can afford 250 a month for insurance? As you draw your unemployment, and still have to make rent, car payment and food?

                          As I have said from day one, a right wing insurance program only makes the insurance business richer, and forces people to buy it. Who was it here that tried to say obamacare, wasn't created by republicans in a think tank? Now granted, the insurance boys changed some parts when THEY wrote that bill for the dems, but its principle of mandated insurance was not changed.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                            Re: Obamacare, Otherwise Known as The Affordable Care Act (ACA)



                            Very good point Dan. Previously, the Dr. was not allowed, or expected to, reveal medical conditions of their patients to law enforcement.

                            With the phrase:

                            All of a sudden, everything you reveal to your Dr. is instantly sharable with law enforcement, should they want it.

                            Dr: "So how much exercising do you take every day"

                            Patient: "I walk from my car in the parking lot to the my office, and back again going home"

                            Dr: "Oh, I wish you handn't told me that. I have to share that with law enforcement, it's against Michelle Obama's 'Let's Move' directive. I comes with a hefty fine, and an increase in your health insurance premiums."

                            Patient: "Whaaattt?"

                            You don't think it's possible? Hell, I'd say it PROBABLE. Obamacare is going to go broke, they are going to have to rape the tax payer as well as ration care, as well as raise premiums at every excuse possible, and they have the IRS to enforce it.

                            No one else if bothered by this?
                            Yes, and can you imagine liberals (who would readily support higher insurance premiums for the obese) supporting higher insurance premiums for people whose personal behavior puts them at higher risk for horrendously expensive things to treat, like, oh, let's say for the sake of discussion, catching the HIV virus?

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post

                              Yes, and can you imagine liberals (who would readily support higher insurance premiums for the obese) supporting higher insurance premiums for people whose personal behavior puts them at higher risk for horrendously expensive things to treat, like, oh, let's say for the sake of discussion, catching the HIV virus?
                              First off, liberalism is dead, as laid out in Chris Hedges book on the subject. So we have something else in its place, that is complimentary to the plutocrats, as the republican party is.

                              Second, obamacare was written by the insurance industry, to favor themselves, which the republicans should have loved, but since it was under Obama, they had to hate it. So, what you see in DC in regards to obamacare is nothing more than political theater. Now the voters who are conservative do not like it, but they are honest in their rejection of it. But most conservatives who vote are also against TPP and other free trade agreements, but that does not matter to the men in congress who are supposed to represent them, but of course do not. And just like the democratic voters, they will continue to vote for a party that does not represent them. It's incoherent, but it's due to a disconnect in regards to the voters, caused by this appeal to emotion that both of the oligarchy parties have become experts at. A little objectivity goes a long way in understanding what is going on. The evidence is overwhelming, but no one can see it.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                                First off, liberalism is dead, as laid out in Chris Hedges book on the subject. So we have something else in its place, that is complimentary to the plutocrats, as the republican party is.

                                Second, obamacare was written by the insurance industry, to favor themselves, which the republicans should have loved, but since it was under Obama, they had to hate it. So, what you see in DC in regards to obamacare is nothing more than political theater. Now the voters who are conservative do not like it, but they are honest in their rejection of it. But most conservatives who vote are also against TPP and other free trade agreements, but that does not matter to the men in congress who are supposed to represent them, but of course do not. And just like the democratic voters, they will continue to vote for a party that does not represent them. It's incoherent, but it's due to a disconnect in regards to the voters, caused by this appeal to emotion that both of the oligarchy parties have become experts at. A little objectivity goes a long way in understanding what is going on. The evidence is overwhelming, but no one can see it.
                                Wrong BD. It is being seen. It was said at last election that many conservatives stayed home and did not vote. These people were seeing it. Not saying it was a good move, because had they voted the lesser of two evils, this country would not be in the state it is today, but can't say staying home was not valuable, because it did open a lot of eyes. Maybe we did need Obama, to wake up the public.

                                Plus, see how many republicans are running. It's trying to be represented as bad thing. That the republican party is divided and can't get their act together, but it is the conservatives saying that they recognize the corrupt working within our gov't and within the party WE represent. People know that current republican, so called representatives, hijacked the party, mislead, and lied to the citizens. Now, we have a huge selection, with many that are not elitists to choose from. This is a good thing, heading in a good direction. It is not the same old that you believe keeps happening.

                                We have agreed on the corruption of leadership within both parties. We have both stated and believe that they are not representing the people but only their political or personal financial ambitions. No debate! But if we opt to believe that nothing will ever change, no matter what, and no one could ever be trusted, then we all might as well give up, stay home, and take what is given to us without complaining.

                                Or we can open our eyes to what is currently going on. The republican gate has opened to new candidates that are unlike the corrupted elitists. Anti-establishment if you will. Now is our opportunity to work hard at investigating each candidate, and if we do our job we can find at least one or two that will represent us well. The only thing stopping us now will be a lack of desire to take on that responsibility. If a Jeb Bush or political game player is elected to represent the republican party in the general election, then I may very well be singing your tune. If we as republicans can not take this long overdue opportunity and select from one of many candidates presented to us, and recognize an honest man that will represent us well, through calculation of past and present behavior accompanied with promises, I think we will be headed in a downward spiral. And I too will have great doubts about what true conservatives really want. Or how many true republicans actually exist.

                                Obama Care must be repealed. If we get a republican president and it's not done. Well, I may just have to give up.

                                So we'll wait for the conclusion of the primaries to see if I've made a grave miscalculation of the conservative and republican citizens.

                                I do know
                                Last edited by msc; 05-20-2015, 03:13 AM.

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