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Vive la France

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  • #76
    Sure, let's see the press articles on the petition and local gov't. reaction to it.

    ?


    • #77
      Originally posted by radcentr View Post
      Sure, let's see the press articles on the petition and local gov't. reaction to it.
      I've already provided links to articles that talk about the petition.

      ?


      • #78
        Sure enuf, Brexx. Here is your link, with a quote:
        Eric Lejoindre from the Mayors Office recognizes the complexity of the situation, saying: Women have a feeling of vulnerability to this violence, often associated with alcoholism, but the public response is essentially police.

        There are, in fact, already police special operations in place to deal with the situation. In January, an operation called Barbes [area near Montmartre] breathes resulted in 110 raids, leading to over 19,000 evictions of vendors, and 884 people were arrested.
        .

        https://www.rt.com/news/389055-women...st-harassment/

        Alcoholism, eh? Doesn't sound like an ISIS takeover to me. More like organized crime and a mix of other misfits. I'm sure some ex-muslims are in the mix, but we won't know what portion until the police stats are in. With the women living in the neighborhood keeping up the political pressure, we should get results before much longer. 884 arrests a few months before the petition? Sounds like there might be hundreds more criminal types trying to set up shop in the district. Could be a great opportunity for some news company to try the prostitute-spy angle, get some video coverage.

        ?


        • #79
          Originally posted by radcentr View Post
          Sure enuf, Brexx. Here is your link, with a quote:
          .

          https://www.rt.com/news/389055-women...st-harassment/

          Alcoholism, eh? Doesn't sound like an ISIS takeover to me. More like organized crime and a mix of other misfits. I'm sure some ex-muslims are in the mix, but we won't know what portion until the police stats are in. With the women living in the neighborhood keeping up the political pressure, we should get results before much longer. 884 arrests a few months before the petition? Sounds like there might be hundreds more criminal types trying to set up shop in the district. Could be a great opportunity for some news company to try the prostitute-spy angle, get some video coverage.
          Its OK to blame alcoholism, but it is forbidden to mention Muslim men's attitudes toward women due to the screwy culture they come from and don't want to let go of. That would be politically incorrect, and we know what a thought and speech controlling disease that has become.

          ?


          • #80
            Originally posted by Brexx View Post

            Its OK to blame alcoholism, but it is forbidden to mention Muslim men's attitudes toward women due to the screwy culture they come from and don't want to let go of. That would be politically incorrect, and we know what a thought and speech controlling disease that has become.
            For those muslim (or ex-muslim) men involved with the chaos, let them be educated by law enforcement and prosecution in France. They had a chance to learn the easy way when they arrived in the country, thru organized cultural events and orientation to their new environment. Now, they have to learn the hard way, or be isolated from society by force (incarceration). Same method that is applied to misfits born and raised in a republic ruled by secular law and order.

            As for the gov't. not mentioning their religion, I would need to see that in Paris police and prosecution stats. Perhaps they mention no one's religion as standard procedure, or they don't investigate further if the perp lies about their religion. One could argue that the ones engaging in pimping and other abuse of women have "lost their religion", which I believe is a good argument. I've seen that in response to poorly behaved catholics, protestants & jews, there is no reason it couldn't be applied to misfit muslims. Their clerics have given speeches on that theme, haven't they? At the end of the day, what I care about is law and order; if the gummint fails to mention self-identified religion of the failures they lock up, I'm OK with that. The important point is, the failures are locked up.

            ?


            • #81
              Originally posted by radcentr View Post
              For those muslim (or ex-muslim) men involved with the chaos, let them be educated by law enforcement and prosecution in France. They had a chance to learn the easy way when they arrived in the country, thru organized cultural events and orientation to their new environment. Now, they have to learn the hard way, or be isolated from society by force (incarceration). Same method that is applied to misfits born and raised in a republic ruled by secular law and order.

              As for the gov't. not mentioning their religion, I would need to see that in Paris police and prosecution stats. Perhaps they mention no one's religion as standard procedure, or they don't investigate further if the perp lies about their religion. One could argue that the ones engaging in pimping and other abuse of women have "lost their religion", which I believe is a good argument. I've seen that in response to poorly behaved catholics, protestants & jews, there is no reason it couldn't be applied to misfit muslims. Their clerics have given speeches on that theme, haven't they? At the end of the day, what I care about is law and order; if the gummint fails to mention self-identified religion of the failures they lock up, I'm OK with that. The important point is, the failures are locked up.
              These problems will never be properly identified let alone dealt with in any decisive way like locking people up. The various European governments that allowed these people into their countries are never going to acknowledge the terrible consequences of their stupidity.

              ?


              • #82
                Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                These problems will never be properly identified let alone dealt with in any decisive way like locking people up. The various European governments that allowed these people into their countries are never going to acknowledge the terrible consequences of their stupidity.
                Of course they will. France has fallen into cycles of social decay and corruption, then picked themselves up again. Like almost any other developed nation. France cleaned up most of their social misfits thru legal action or revolution before, and that was their domestic scum (fe, decayed royalty in the French Revolution, subsequent cleanup of nutjobs who ran the guillotine party). No reason to believe that a modern nation is incapable of cleaning up bad actors, just because they were refugees (fake or genuine) from a foreign country.

                ?


                • #83
                  Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                  Of course they will. France has fallen into cycles of social decay and corruption, then picked themselves up again. Like almost any other developed nation. France cleaned up most of their social misfits thru legal action or revolution before, and that was their domestic scum (fe, decayed royalty in the French Revolution, subsequent cleanup of nutjobs who ran the guillotine party). No reason to believe that a modern nation is incapable of cleaning up bad actors, just because they were refugees (fake or genuine) from a foreign country.
                  The mess certainly won't be cleaned up by any pc left-wing government. They will need to elect a government that is willing to tackle the problem head on and to even get out of the EU if necessary in order to do it.

                  ?


                  • #84
                    Pat Condell describes the situation in Europe.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydPZRoLzu-E

                    ?


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                      The mess certainly won't be cleaned up by any pc left-wing government. They will need to elect a government that is willing to tackle the problem head on and to even get out of the EU if necessary in order to do it.
                      Macron is now left wing, eh? The nationalists or other (extreme?) right wing parties have to claim the other parties won't clean up criminal behavior, regardless. Otherwise, they cut one of their two platforms off at the knees.

                      ?


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                        Macron is now left wing, eh? The nationalists or other (extreme?) right wing parties have to claim the other parties won't clean up criminal behavior, regardless. Otherwise, they cut one of their two platforms off at the knees.
                        Its not simply a matter of cleaning up criminal behavior. You can keep the jails full, but criminal behavior continues.

                        The mess in Europe will never be cleaned up, but they could stop adding to it. Macron is not the leader who is going to do that in France. Here are his ideas on immigration:

                        Unlike many French Socialists, including former Prime Minister Manuel Valls, Macron supports the open-door policy toward refugees from the Middle East and Africa pursued by Angela Merkel in Germany[315] and promotes tolerance towards immigrants and Muslims.[296] Macron has expressed confidence in France's ability to absorb more immigrants and welcomes their arrival into Europe, asserting that the influx will have a positive economic impact.[316]

                        However, he believes that Frontex (the European Border and Coast Guard Agency) is "not a sufficiently ambitious program" and has called for more investment in coast and border guards, "because anyone who enters [Europe] at Lampedusa or elsewhere is a concern for all European countries".[281] Regarding asylum policy, he believes "the ... period of review should be considerably shortened" and that "all those whose claims fail must be deported immediately.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanu...on#Immigration

                        ?


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                          The mess certainly won't be cleaned up by any pc left-wing government. They will need to elect a government that is willing to tackle the problem head on and to even get out of the EU if necessary in order to do it.

                          I know that you dont like to be bothered with facts, but you should try that one once with a real Frenchman/Frenchwoman, if you have the opportunity to talk to one : Telling them that the former Rothschild banker, former Minister of economics and current labour market reformer Macron was on the left. Unstoppable, frenetic outbursts of laughter guaranteed.
                          And no, France is not going to leave the EU. It was not even going to in case of a Le Pen presidency, and poll after poll demonstrated that beyond any reasonable doubt ( not even Le Pens National Front was united on that issue). Why Le Pen still stuck to the idea is probably a debate for itself ( also politicians can live in a bubble of their own making), yet the "Frexit" idea was a demonstratable fringe position and a folly peddled by parts of the anglophone press during the campaign. Support for EU membership has been fairly constant over decades and across political camps at around 80 %, with minor fluctuations both ways at times. Currently it is rather higher than that, not least because of Brexiters making a mess of their country and the Brexit negotiations.
                          But no need to believe me : Ask Mdme Le Pen :

                          https://www.thelocal.fr/20170522/mar...ingle-currency


                          And by the way : The EU does neither prevent law enforcement ( it rather helps, such as via police cooperation) nor deportations ( of non-Union citizens).
                          Getting at least the basics right when commenting events in another country usually helps an argument.

                          ?


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Voland View Post


                            I know that you dont like to be bothered with facts, but you should try that one once with a real Frenchman/Frenchwoman, if you have the opportunity to talk to one : Telling them that the former Rothschild banker, former Minister of economics and current labour market reformer Macron was on the left. Unstoppable, frenetic outbursts of laughter guaranteed.
                            And no, France is not going to leave the EU. It was not even going to in case of a Le Pen presidency, and poll after poll demonstrated that beyond any reasonable doubt ( not even Le Pens National Front was united on that issue). Why Le Pen still stuck to the idea is probably a debate for itself ( also politicians can live in a bubble of their own making), yet the "Frexit" idea was a demonstratable fringe position and a folly peddled by parts of the anglophone press during the campaign. Support for EU membership has been fairly constant over decades and across political camps at around 80 %, with minor fluctuations both ways at times. Currently it is rather higher than that, not least because of Brexiters making a mess of their country and the Brexit negotiations.
                            But no need to believe me : Ask Mdme Le Pen :

                            https://www.thelocal.fr/20170522/mar...ingle-currency


                            And by the way : The EU does neither prevent law enforcement ( it rather helps, such as via police cooperation) nor deportations ( of non-Union citizens).
                            Getting at least the basics right when commenting events in another country usually helps an argument.
                            Macron was a member of the Socialist Party and a minister in socialist president Hollande's government. Various articles I have read about him describe him as "center left". Maybe that is not far enough left for the French people you are familiar with.

                            When did I say the EU prevents law enforcement? The EU does require open borders, so countries in the EU can't control who comes into their country from other parts of the union. I suppose France could do like Hungary and simply ignore EU rules. I don't know what price they pay for that.

                            I imagine the EU will continue to allow hordes of incompatible, unintegratable Mulsim immigrants into Europe until enough people get angry enough about it to elect governments that will put a stop to it EU or no EU. A lot of people are angry already. Merkel had tomatoes thrown at her the other day.

                            ?


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                              Its not simply a matter of cleaning up criminal behavior. You can keep the jails full, but criminal behavior continues.

                              The mess in Europe will never be cleaned up, but they could stop adding to it. Macron is not the leader who is going to do that in France. Here are his ideas on immigration:

                              ...
                              It has been proven that improved enforcement of the criminal code, with jail sentences for serious crimes, has reduced criminal behavior in open society. I might be less sarcastic with such a simple statement, but it is the right response to your first comment. As for Macron's ideas on immigration, what makes you believe he would encourage sloppy law enforcement, such as giving muslims a free pass that others don't receive, or allowing open immigration without prior examination for each case? In your quote, he proposes law enforcement, including investigation before allowing immigration. Further, his comments indicate he would "add on" law/investigation services, above what is provided by EU resources.

                              A 100% enforcement of "no more muslims" would be a nice sound bite for right wing nationalists, and also impossible to accomplish at a reasonable financial cost. Similar to someone claiming they could clean up all criminal behavior.

                              ?


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                                Macron was a member of the Socialist Party and a minister in socialist president Hollande's government. Various articles I have read about him describe him as "center left". Maybe that is not far enough left for the French people you are familiar with.

                                When did I say the EU prevents law enforcement? The EU does require open borders, so countries in the EU can't control who comes into their country from other parts of the union. I suppose France could do like Hungary and simply ignore EU rules. I don't know what price they pay for that.

                                I imagine the EU will continue to allow hordes of incompatible, unintegratable Mulsim immigrants into Europe until enough people get angry enough about it to elect governments that will put a stop to it EU or no EU. A lot of people are angry already. Merkel had tomatoes thrown at her the other day.

                                Sigh. Macron served as minister under a socialist president, but he was never a member of the Socialist Party ( or any other) except his LREM ("La Republique en marche"). He was signed up when Francois Hollande tried to reinvent himself as an economic reformer and he quit when it was increasingly obvious that Hollande lacked the authority and the guts to push through the measures that Macron considered necessary. Also in the US presidents appoint members of the other party or independents to ministerial posts every now and then, right ? But since this example of sloppy research has made it also on Wikipedia beeing mistaken here might be excusable.

                                http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7796996.html

                                As president however Macron has appointed a Prime Minister, an economics and a finance minister from the right. Fact. And as a campaigner he has crushed the Socialist Party ( pretty much), that has been declared "dead" by Macrons former superior, ex-Prime Minister Manuel Valls

                                https://www.ft.com/content/a2544c30-...d-13beb0903fa3

                                Unions and lefties are the ones leading the fight against his labour reforms ( so far with moderate success), but dont let the facts disturb you:


                                https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/w...labor-law.html

                                As far as the EU is concerned : Frances muslim communities have not arrived from any other part of the European Union, but from the countrys former colonial empire and usually in pre-EU times . What part of open borders FOR MEMBERS and BETWEEN MEMBERS is hard to understand ? An open border by the way is not an unpoliced one and it does not mean no controls, that is nonsense. But you would have to grasp how a properly enforced ID system works. I live close to three borders, and on my way to work I am passing at least one border two times, every day. I have citizenship of two EU members, I am married to a citizen of a third and I have family spread across four member countries. We are changing very easily between borders, languages, cultures and countries as a matter of everyday business here and all over Europe open borders have transformed regions that were once impoverished backwaters, often scarred by wars of the past into thriving, multilingual cross-border hubs for business and investment. From my office in Luxembourg I can visit my aunt in France on the way home, while also bringing some real belgian beer from Belgium for friends in Germany. Doable. I can also be in Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam or Cologne within a few hours or take the plane to Italy or Spain without any bureaucracy bullshit. Yet what I would neverever do is to leave the house in Germany WITHOUT my ID and my insurance card. Because without that personal identification I could be stopped by police around the corner or across the border, I would be refused a hotel room or boarding a plane, I couldnt sign a contract, rent a place or show up at the doctors. And since I have to use my ID in countless everyday transactions it is pretty easy to track me. Or anybody else. Everyone is registered here, police are sharing their databases and that is how an open borders Regime can work. As far as imigration is concerned : While EU citizens are generally free to move, seek work or study in other member countries they must prove to have sufficient funds not to rely on benefits, to be working or to be enrolled in education within three months. If they dont, than any EU Country can expel any EU citizen just as well as for criminal actvity. As far as non Union citizens are concerned, everyone can draw up his own rules on Immigration. Fact

                                parl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_3.1.3.html


                                So Merkel barely survived a vicious attack with a bunch of tomatoes ? So what ? She leads the polls by 20 % or so and she is going to stay chancellor. The fact that some of the same media outlets that not Long ago wasted considerable typing space for her political obituaries are now passing this around as big News says more about the Quality of their coverage of Germany than about Merkel.

                                Last edited by Voland; 09-10-2017, 07:20 AM.

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