Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules - You must read(Updated!)

DISCLAIMER

You agree to NOT use this site or its affiliated sites, services you may have access to as a result of being a member here (subscriber or otherwise), to post items (images, textual material, etc.) that are pornographic in nature, illegal in the United States and/or the country you reside in, support or encourage illegal activities (e.g., terrorism), advertise for your own personal profit, or send unsolicited messages (i.e. SPAM) to members or non-members.

AND

You agree that if any clause or component of this document is found to not be legally binding in a court of law of proper jurisdiction then the remainder of this document shall remain fully binding and in full force.

AND

You agree to NOT hold Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (makers of the forum software), uspoliticsonline.com, sites affiliated with uspoliticsonline.com, its administrators, its moderators, others associated with its operation, and its owners liable for any and all of the following (in whole or in part):
Personal insults/attacks by other members.
The content posted by other members, whether directed at you personally or a label/classification you associate with. This includes remarks you consider to be libelous or slanderous in any way.
Any financial or time loss due to your participation here or as a result of something you read at this site, including posts/PMs by other members and feature(s)/software available at the domain uspoliticsonline.com.
The dissemination of any personal information about you as a result of either your negligence (e.g. staying logged into a computer that others have access to) or willingness to post such information on a public and or private forum, private message or chat box. This includes using your real name or other details that could allow other members and/or the general public to determine your true identity. You are prohibited from using your real name on these forums, either as your username or in posts / PMs you write.

FORUM RULES, IN ADDITION TO THE DISCLAIMER

1. These rules apply to all sections of USPOL, including public and private forums, blogs, and visitor messages.

2. You cannot attack and/or personally insult someone. You cannot bait other forum members; this includes referring to posters by derogatory terms. Please, remain courteous and respectful to all forum members at all times. You agree to take responsibility for reporting such posts when you come across them. Please, use the ignore feature if need be. Any member who intentionally and continually posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, may be regarded as a troll by staff, and have their account suspended or banned.

3. You cannot harass (sexually or otherwise) other members. This includes malicious, slanderous, or defamatory comments. If you are not sure if something you write is inappropriate or not then don't say it. Err on the side of caution.

4. Copying and Pasting Articles, and Starting New Threads. You cannot simply cut and paste in posts or when starting threads. You MUST provide the identifying information (source, author, date, and URL). You must also offer some original thoughts along with the cut and paste. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts from the article. Excerpts really shouldnt be more then a paragraph or two. Furthermore, if you use images or other copyrighted material in your posts or signature you must have permission of the copyright holder unless you know for a fact that the image is in the public domain. In addition:
a. It must include the identifying information; e.g., where available, the author, the publication, the date, the URL.
b. The member must offer some context, including: How did you hear of this article? What is your opinion? Why is it important to you? Why should it be important to forum readers? The more context you provide, the more you assist others in gauging the excerpted information's significance.
c. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts, not the whole thing or even the majority of the whole thing to encourage people to read the entire article.

A violation of any of the above will result in the deletion or closing of the post or thread and could earn you a warning or suspension. If you have any questions concering any of the above please PM a moderator and we will be happy to clarify.

5. You cannot post the same thing in multiple forums. You must not open similar threads about the same or a similar topic. You cannot spam the board or send unsolicited messages to members via PM, email or any other means.

6. Do not post off-topic. You cannot derail a thread with off topic posts.

7. You cannot shout in posts. This includes posting in all CAPS, bold, lIkE tHiS, and extra large font. Posts should also be one color, although you may use an additional color for highlighting ideas you wish to address.

8. You may not alter quotes in a way that misrepresents what was originally said.

9. Multiple accounts are not allowed. If you are found to have more than one account all accounts will be permanently terminated.

10. You cannot have a user name, avatar, signature, or post images that are deliberately offensive. That includes the display of overly explicit or graphic images that may not be suitable for minors.

11. Signatures can not have more than three lines of text, with a font size no larger than "4", and no more than two font colors. Images in signatures cannot be any larger than 800 pixels wide x 200 pixels tall. Animated images are not allowed.

12. You are prohibited from taking any action to disturb the use of the services by others, distribute material that contains viruses, spyware or any other malicious code or harmful programs. This includes interfering with the working of the network, attempts to gain unauthorized access to a service or other computer systems that are part of the site or any other site, by use of the available services.

13. Discussion of moderation actions in public and/or private forums is not permitted. Moderation actions include warnings, suspensions and the editing or deletion of posts. If a member has a concern about a moderation action, he or she is invited to address it with the board staff via Private Message. This rule exists to protect the privacy of all posters with regards to disciplinary action. The moderator team will never publicly discuss the warnings/suspensions of any posters, and we ask that you return the favor, whether about yourself or another poster. Posting about moderation actions in the public forums constitutes a violation. You are free to discuss a moderation action via Private Message with the moderator involved, but you may not harass or abuse the moderators (as already specified in the forum rules). In practical terms, this means that once a moderator tells you his or her decision is final, no further PMs about that moderation action are permitted. If you have a concern about a moderation action, you are free to appeal to a Forum Administrator via Private Message. You may only discuss moderator activities or discussion of moderation with staff member if you chose to private message and are not under any circumstances allowed to use the PM function to forward or promote moderator discussion in regards to specific forum action, amongst other regular members. Administrators do reserve the right to read said PMs and may do so ; if that results in discovery of messaging between posters of such moderator discussion then it will lead to the same violation being received for discussing said moderator actions on the forum. If you receive a message to the effect of having been given moderator information, please report it to a member of staff. Engaging back in that discussion with the original violator will earn you just as stiff a sanction.

14. Do not ignore moderators or administrators. Do not repost something a moderator or administrator has deleted. You cannot have moderators or administrators on your ignore list.

15. Only post in English. Short passages in foreign languages may be acceptable if its use seems helpful for the ongoing discussion and when there is no indication of a potential violation of the forum rules. Always provide a translation into English in such cases. In case of doubt, the incident will be regarded as a violation, no matter of the actual meaning of the foreign language text.

16. The use of words/comments etc. written by other posters, without approval of the poster in your personal signature is not allowed nor are references, by name, to other posters allowed.

17. Please pay attention to announcements by Forum staff that will be found in the "Welcome! / News & Announcements" forum from time to time.

18. Use of "liar", "lies", "lying", etc. Accusing someone of being a "liar" or similar accusations towards other posters will generally be regarded as implying an insult and therewith as a violation of the forum rules. "I question the validity of your statement because...", "That's not the truth" or "you are wrong about that" are sufficient for any decent discussion if you want to disagree with somebody's assertions.

19. Thread opening restriction for new members. In order to control SPAM, new members must have moderator approval to start their own threads.

20. Thread titles must relate to the discussion within. Do not make misleading titles, or titles such as "Guess what..." or "You'll never believe this...". Members need to be able to identify the general gist of the thread via the title. Profanity in thread titles is not permitted.

21. Forum members are instructed to use forum tools and abilities for their intended purposes and no other. If members identify a forum glitch or weakness of any kind that allows you to see or do something you know you shouldn't, please report it. Being aware of any unintended access to the Forum and failing to take appropriate steps to notify staff of said access issues, will create a presumption of seeking to take advantage of the issue, will result in either account suspension, or banishment.

22. Any link to a site that contains graphic content, must contain a warning describing what a person might reasonably expect to view if they click on said link. No graphic pictures are to be posted on the Forum.

23. Threats or advocations of violence toward a public figure, or member of the Forum, will not be tolerated. Conversation about revolution or the like is not prohibited by this rule; directly calling for violence is, eg It's time to kill every <redacted> that voted for the bill, is not permitted.

24. Accounts with no posts will be deleted after 30 days. Inactive accounts with low post histories may be deleted after one year.

25. Private forums are something offered to members that decide to contribute directly to this site via donations. These donations help immensely in keeping this site up and running. Private forums are designed to allow the contributing member discuss whatever he/she wants to and to have the power to direct that discussion in whatever way he/she chose. They were not designed nor are they intended for simply talking trash about members that don't have access to the forum. While the targeted members cannot see the forum or the comments, it creates a negative atmosphere that really isn't necessary. If you want to totally rip apart ideas, ideologies, political parties, etc. that is fine. We simply ask that you don't use the private forums as a means to attack other members that aren't privy to such comments. It is difficult enough to have a political discussion forum because the discussion of politics is inherently heated as people are so passionate about their beliefs...the ones that take the time to come to such a site in the first place at least. The idea of private forums is so people of similar political persuasions can discuss whatever they want without fear of being attacked. Nonetheless, we hope that a certain level of maturity would foster itself within such an arena and not simply lend itself to a bashing forum.

Private Forums are governed by all of the above Forum rules. In addition:
  • Private forums that essentially become abandoned homes will be subject to deletion, donation or reorganization. Just like elsewhere in life, clubs sometimes lose their vitality and purpose for a myriad of reasons. If it becomes clear that a private forum has clearly lost its vitality and nobody is going to really use it anymore, owners are advised to consider whether to reuse the forum for something new and productive rather than let them linger or notify the Administration that the forum should be rearranged for other purposes, closed, merged with other compatible private forums, donated to others for new purposes, etc. Do not be concerned that your forum must be a membership and post count race with others to avoid falling under this policy; the question is whether your forum has actual vitality instead of being 'brain dead.'
  • Additionally, private forums may only be owned by subscribed members in the Platinum or Diamond categories.
  • Should the owner of a private forum be banned, quit USPOL or otherwise abandon the forum the PF will be transferred to another owner or closed.
  • Propriety of private forums. Administration staff will determine the desirability of a proposed private forum and enact any conditions upon it to ensure its purpose is productive.
  • Any and all instances of sharing accounts by allowing someone else to log in under their own account so they can see into private forums for which they are otherwise not permitted to access, will be deemed violation of the double account rule and all caught doing so will be permanently banned.
  • Relaying private forum posts and information to other posters who are not members of the particular private forum for any negative or destructive purpose (eg mean-spirited gossip, fueling interpersonal disputes, etc), is not permitted, and will constitute a violation of the Forum rules.
  • For purposes of monitoring USPOL Terms of Service Administrative staff (not Moderators) will have access to Private Forums.
  • All Private Forums must have at least one active Administrator as a member for purposes of handling issues which cannot be addressed through moderation permissions.
  • Discussion of moderation activities is prohibited on the open site and is likewise prohibited in Private Forums.

26. The administrators and moderators reserve the right to edit and/or delete a post,and/or close a thread, and/or delete a thread at any time if of the opinion that the post is too obscene, inappropriate, or the discussion has run its course.

27. 'Back seat moderating' is not allowed. If you take issue with another poster's contribution to the forum, you're welcome to report any posts you think are out of line, but you should not bring it up publicly within the forum.

28. Images in posts (whether embedded or hot linked) must be reasonable in size. 800x800 should be considered a good rule of thumb. Excessively large images make it difficult for users on mobile devices to load pages. If necessary please simply link to very large images using the URL tags. In addition, the following images are not permitted (including, but not limited to pages with images or videos containing):
  • Strategically covered nudity
  • Sheer or see-through clothing
  • Lewd or provocative poses
  • Close-ups of breasts, buttocks, or crotches

29. Any solicitation or communication involving sports betting / gambling / online casinos / bookies and or internet based card or slot machine systems or sites will lead to all said content being physically removed from the site and server, and will lead to any and or all parties involved being permanently removed and banned from the site to the farthest extent possible. This includes any links to any form of bookmaker, casino, any type of game or match or event where money transfers on the outcome or link of any sort to wire act violations and or anything in violation of either the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, or the Federal wire Act. This applies not only to the open forum but all and or any chat rooms, articles, private messages and or private forums. All content that violates this rule will be deleted, without notice.

CONSEQUENCES

Failure to comply with any of the forum rules may result in your posts being edited or deleted and/or your account being temporarily or permanently banned from the forums. U.S. Politics Online uses a warning system that generates an automated Private Message to members when they are in violation of Forum rules. The decision to issue a warning is left to the discretion of the moderator or administrator handling the violation. If a member does not agree with an action taken by a moderator, they can appeal to an administrator after seeking clarification from the moderator who issued the warning/infraction and appealing to them in the first instance. Members MAY NOT harass a moderator or administrator by sending excessive PMs when they are discussing an appeal.

Violations are assigned a point value. Points are valid for 30 days. When a members earns 10 points, their account will be automatically suspended: five (5) days for a first suspension; ten (10) days for a second suspension; and twenty (20) days for a third suspension. If a member incurs an additional 10 points after having served three periods of suspension, then they will be permanently banned from the Forum.

Point values are as follows:
Zero (0) points Warning
Two (2) points - Minor infraction / Non post infraction (minor) / Off topic posts / spamming
Four (4) points - Academic dishonesty / Baiting / Discussing moderator or administrator actions / Implying an insult / Minor insults / Moderate infraction / Non-post infraction (moderate) / Thread dumping
Six (6) points - Direct insult at another member / major infraction / Non-post infraction (major)
Ten (10) points - Act of criminality, or advocating thereof

The administrators and moderators also bear the right to issue warnings, temporarily suspend or ban posters for continued trolling or other serious misconduct (eg. professional spamming) even if the poster has not yet reached the maximum warning points or suspensions level. Other options if the above consequences do not seem adequate include placing the member in a moderation queue, which means all posts will have to be approved before they are posted to the board.

PRIVACY POLICY

All information obtained by the end user via the registration process is for internal purposes only and will not be sold to or shared with any third parties. However, if the end user participates in illegal activities and a court of proper jurisdiction orders U.S. Politics Online to release certain information about said user then we will act according to the law. Furthermore, no information will be released on threat of a lawsuit, attempted or actual intimidation, or due to any other reason except as notated in the first sentence of this paragraph. Nonetheless, keep in mind that the information we do have is very limited and generally only consists of the IP address a member uses.

SUBSCRIPTIONS

U.S. Politics Online offers several subscription plans to help cover the operational costs of the site. As a thank you for your donation, you will receive special added benefits meant to enhance your U.S. Politics Online experience. Plans vary in price, starting at only $0.05/day, and benefits vary with the price. Benefits include ability to go straight to new posts, to search the forum, larger avatar, private forums, invisible mode, photo gallery, email, web hosting, and no advertisement banners. Please, click here for more details.
See more
See less

One has to wonder if they have ANY sense in Gaza!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I am not equating Gandhi and the Palestinians and never have. I am saying however that part of the Palestinians problem is that they are pursuing an unworkable strategy, that they have done so for decades and still expect different results.
    The british army could have dealt with any kinds of terrorism, violence or insurgencies in India, just as the israeli one today. Easily.
    What they couldnt deal with was a freak in sandals that dressed like a biblical prophet, that never carried a weapon in his life and that never used an unpolite word, not even towards the British. But that mobilized millions of people for civic disobedience against them. Demonizing him didnt work, imprisoning him didnt work and clubbing down his protests didnt work as well. They could only loose because he had forced them on his playing field, not the other way around.
    In 1930 Gandhi organized a "march to the sea", in protest at a "salt tax" that the Brits had heaped on the Indians. The british army had originally planned to crush the march, but the commander in charge decided not to, when he learned that Ghandis marchers included women and children. Gandhi had correctly anticipated that the Brits would rather let the march pass than produce footage that showed them attacking women and children. They still ended up arresting tens of thousands, yet the PR coup was on the Indians side.
    The GDR "Monday" protestors often put pretty young girls in the first line. That handed flowers or chocolate to the soldiers pointing their guns at them. A tactic that was again seen in Ukraine in 2014 and that is pretty clever, even if it required nerves of steel on the part of the girls. Because obviously the first step to violently crushing protests is their demonization. Which is far easier when the protesters are doing them the favour to be masked males shouting abuse and hurling explosives--than well behaved, pretty young girls. Even for the most brutish regime soldier.
    Wether gandhian style protest would work in Palestine is an interesting speculation, nothing more. Yet actually I think it would. Far better than producing ever more "marthyrs" shot while trying to climb a fence. If the Palestinians were seriously adopting peaceful protests, silent marches, sit-in blocades, flashmobs, involving women and children, involving international press, etc. than Israels security leadership would face the same problem as the Brits in India or the eastern german Communists : How to respond. Many or most Israelis are convinced of the moral nature of their state. The IDF NOT intentionally killing or wounding unarmed civilians is an article of faith for most Israelis, independent of political leaning. That could be rather easily exploited by protesters while tying the israeli governements hand ( if violent suppression was out of the window). Swelling non-violent protests would also have the potential to alter the perception of the conflict abroad and lead to more pressure on the israeli side to bring out the political ideas. Some would argue that the reason the Palestinians have never adopted peaceful protests lies in Arabs cultural DNA. Yet that can be exposed as untrue just by checking something as recent as the Arab Spring. That involved many peaceful demonstrations.
    Peaceful protests may be EXACTLY what they need to change israeli and american perception and to break the deadlock that leads to ever more misery for them, yet regrettably they lack the leaders for that. That is probably their real tragedy.

    ?


    • #17
      I do not suggest you ARE equating Ghandi with the Palestinians and, further, we agree that the nomads are pursuing a losing strategy.

      what Im saying is, their leadership will never pursue a right course because they are blinded to anything other than their hatred of Israel.

      We were driving on a highway through the West Bank and our guide told us about a manufacturer of that first Soda Stream (the little machine that you can use to put the fizz in your cola mixtures ). It was developed by an Israeli company but they built their factory in a West Bank town near Jerusalem. Hired mostly Palestinians and paid them journeyman level wages, gave them benefits and everything.

      one of those Palestinian organizations that claims to be looking out for the rights of Palestinians took exception to Israelis running a factory on the West Bank so started protests against them, and even launched aboycott against the actress that advertised the machine on one of the Super Bowls. The company decided they didnt need the bad press, so closed the factory, laid off all those Palestinians, and moved to Northern Israel.

      this kind of activism only hurts Palestinians, but it is all their leadership understands.

      ?


      • #18
        Originally posted by GOODave View Post
        I do not suggest you ARE equating Ghandi with the Palestinians and, further, we agree that the nomads are pursuing a losing strategy.

        what Im saying is, their leadership will never pursue a right course because they are blinded to anything other than their hatred of Israel.

        We were driving on a highway through the West Bank and our guide told us about a manufacturer of that first Soda Stream (the little machine that you can use to put the fizz in your cola mixtures ). It was developed by an Israeli company but they built their factory in a West Bank town near Jerusalem. Hired mostly Palestinians and paid them journeyman level wages, gave them benefits and everything.

        one of those Palestinian organizations that claims to be looking out for the rights of Palestinians took exception to Israelis running a factory on the West Bank so started protests against them, and even launched aboycott against the actress that advertised the machine on one of the Super Bowls. The company decided they didnt need the bad press, so closed the factory, laid off all those Palestinians, and moved to Northern Israel.

        this kind of activism only hurts Palestinians, but it is all their leadership understands.
        There is the chronology of India's independence struggles (among others) to show the Palestinian masses what might happen. India didn't start rebellion against the British after Ghandi was born; it started decades before Ghandi showed up. They did try violent resistance, they did prove that it would not work against an enemy that was better organized both politically and militarily. Ghandi didn't just pull a "passive resistance" strategy out of some nether-region of his person. He studied that chronology as well as the methods of civil disobedience that had been used before, and adopted proper methods using his own discipline, experience and intellect. Great results, which were repeated more than once since Ghandi's passing, on at least two other continents. Such was his success, he is hardly mentioned by the "old school" political elite in today's world. They would rather publicly mention dealing with nutjobs in a nuclear N. Korea, than the success of a better way for the new era, started by Ghandi.

        Like India, the challenge for Palestinians is to accept that the current strategy -and the leadership that uses it- will likely fail. Then they must look to a strategy that will likely succeed, sift out the leadership that is "too old-fashioned", and chose a much more difficult (but successful) discipline of passive -and publicized- resistance. That would split the current left wing of Israeli politics (currently behind Netanyahu, at least on this issue), as well as most international backing the Israeli policy. OTOH, one video of one Palestinian kid throwing a rock at Israeli military police negates every action and objective of the Palestinian leadership against Israeli hard-liners. They have already proven that, countless times in the international press.

        ?


        • #19
          Originally posted by radcentr View Post
          There is the chronology of India's independence struggles (among others) to show the Palestinian masses what might happen. India didn't start rebellion against the British after Ghandi was born; it started decades before Ghandi showed up. They did try violent resistance, they did prove that it would not work against an enemy that was better organized both politically and militarily. Ghandi didn't just pull a "passive resistance" strategy out of some nether-region of his person. He studied that chronology as well as the methods of civil disobedience that had been used before, and adopted proper methods using his own discipline, experience and intellect. Great results, which were repeated more than once since Ghandi's passing, on at least two other continents. Such was his success, he is hardly mentioned by the "old school" political elite in today's world. They would rather publicly mention dealing with nutjobs in a nuclear N. Korea, than the success of a better way for the new era, started by Ghandi.

          Like India, the challenge for Palestinians is to accept that the current strategy -and the leadership that uses it- will likely fail. Then they must look to a strategy that will likely succeed, sift out the leadership that is "too old-fashioned", and chose a much more difficult (but successful) discipline of passive -and publicized- resistance. That would split the current left wing of Israeli politics (currently behind Netanyahu, at least on this issue), as well as most international backing the Israeli policy. OTOH, one video of one Palestinian kid throwing a rock at Israeli military police negates every action and objective of the Palestinian leadership against Israeli hard-liners. They have already proven that, countless times in the international press.
          That is what I am saying will never happen.

          Further, Israel is not oppressing anyone: They are typically only reacting to uprisings and violence forced on them. The Arabs sold them unusable land: Infested with rocks and swamps. The Jews took it, settled it, vastly improved it, and those areas are now rich in agriculture. Once the useless land was no longer useless, the nomads in the area decided they have a claim to the area and [all this] started. Zionism means ONLY Israel's right to self determination, which every surrounding and distant primarily Muslim state refuses to acknowledge and, instead, reassert their vow to push Israel off into the ocean.

          In Jerusalem, I saw a white van with metal grids over the windows. The van was all banged up with paint splotches all over it. "What is that?" I asked our guide. "It is a school bus." He replied. "even school buses are subject to attack by the Arab neighborhoods they have to travel through."

          ?


          • #20
            Originally posted by DavidSF View Post

            That is what I am saying will never happen.

            Further, Israel is not oppressing anyone: They are typically only reacting to uprisings and violence forced on them. The Arabs sold them unusable land: Infested with rocks and swamps. The Jews took it, settled it, vastly improved it, and those areas are now rich in agriculture. Once the useless land was no longer useless, the nomads in the area decided they have a claim to the area and [all this] started. Zionism means ONLY Israel's right to self determination, which every surrounding and distant primarily Muslim state refuses to acknowledge and, instead, reassert their vow to push Israel off into the ocean.

            In Jerusalem, I saw a white van with metal grids over the windows. The van was all banged up with paint splotches all over it. "What is that?" I asked our guide. "It is a school bus." He replied. "even school buses are subject to attack by the Arab neighborhoods they have to travel through."
            Israel has nothing to fear from those who Palestinians who protest because Israel exists. That portion of the Palestinian opposition will use violence that agrees with their lack of a rational position, and will be handled by Israel as usual, with the usual support of most of nations around the globe.

            Israel needs to worry about certain palestinian populations within what is considered greater israel (or palestine, during the decline of the ottoman empire). Some of them have been there longer than the modern israeli state. If those people are forced to re-locate (away from the west bank for example), and they manage to organize a well-publicized, passive resistance, then israel's gov't. would be dealing with a triangulation for which they are entirely inexperienced. That is one of the major factors that worked in Mandela's favor, once the passive resistance had developed; forced relocation practiced with almost no international consequence before, was now used against the politically dominant white elites in south africa. The critical difference was the discipline to follow passive resistance in both the leadership and the masses of black populations, which had previously failed with violent resistance against the ruling gov't. Link:
            http://www.sahistory.org.za/article/...s-south-africa

            A change from violent resistance to civil disobedience was practiced across different cultures and times, so it must be considered a possibility by the israeli gov't. Indeed, there are those in israel -retired- who have noticed this, maybe they want to control the change, before it controls them. Link:
            That remains a nightmare scenario for Israel, according to Mr. Eiland, the retired general.

            If, and this has not happened yet, at the very same moment, thousands of people in different locations will assault the fence among them children and women this might create a real challenge to us because we do not want to shoot and kill dozens and hundreds of people, he said. And at the same time we do not want them to cross into Israel, because we cannot tolerate it.
            https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/w...ts-israel.html

            But this is still hamas who organized this protest, and they have already screwed up by allowing violence in the latest round. There will likely be a young fool or two, who slings rocks at israeli soldiers behind the fence, which will be played in the international press as sufficient provocation. What worries the retired general is the fact that hamas leadership recently considers the idea of civil disobedience and might continue attempts to reform itself to that end. I agree with everyone else on this thread that it won't likely happen soon, but there is movement in that direction.

            ?


            • #21
              Originally posted by radcentr View Post
              Israel has nothing to fear from those who Palestinians who protest because Israel exists. That portion of the Palestinian opposition will use violence that agrees with their lack of a rational position, and will be handled by Israel as usual, with the usual support of most of nations around the globe.

              Israel needs to worry about certain palestinian populations within what is considered greater israel (or palestine, during the decline of the ottoman empire). Some of them have been there longer than the modern israeli state. If those people are forced to re-locate (away from the west bank for example), and they manage to organize a well-publicized, passive resistance, then israel's gov't. would be dealing with a triangulation for which they are entirely inexperienced. That is one of the major factors that worked in Mandela's favor, once the passive resistance had developed; forced relocation practiced with almost no international consequence before, was now used against the politically dominant white elites in south africa. The critical difference was the discipline to follow passive resistance in both the leadership and the masses of black populations, which had previously failed with violent resistance against the ruling gov't. Link:
              http://www.sahistory.org.za/article/...s-south-africa

              A change from violent resistance to civil disobedience was practiced across different cultures and times, so it must be considered a possibility by the israeli gov't. Indeed, there are those in israel -retired- who have noticed this, maybe they want to control the change, before it controls them. Link:

              https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/w...ts-israel.html

              But this is still hamas who organized this protest, and they have already screwed up by allowing violence in the latest round. There will likely be a young fool or two, who slings rocks at israeli soldiers behind the fence, which will be played in the international press as sufficient provocation. What worries the retired general is the fact that hamas leadership recently considers the idea of civil disobedience and might continue attempts to reform itself to that end. I agree with everyone else on this thread that it won't likely happen soon, but there is movement in that direction.
              Your condition precedent (that they will manage to organize a ... passive resistance) is what I suggest will never happen.

              I don't know if you've been over there, but the Palestinians I saw are neither permanent nor motivated.

              The structures they live in are little more than lean-to hovels. Their garbage is tossed out a window with the more progressive amongst them actually putting them in a dump-like structure. There is no neighborhood improvement or even neighborhoods: These people are still basically nomads (other than they do have those semi-permanent hovels). Yes, they will be put out and stressed if they are forced to relocate ... but it is not them who will be protesting: It will be the Hamas-linked organizations pulling some radicals together. The rank-and-file "Palestinian" only wants to be left along to herd their goats.

              ?


              • #22
                Originally posted by DavidSF View Post

                Your condition precedent (that they will manage to organize a ... passive resistance) is what I suggest will never happen.

                I don't know if you've been over there, but the Palestinians I saw are neither permanent nor motivated.

                The structures they live in are little more than lean-to hovels. Their garbage is tossed out a window with the more progressive amongst them actually putting them in a dump-like structure. There is no neighborhood improvement or even neighborhoods: These people are still basically nomads (other than they do have those semi-permanent hovels). Yes, they will be put out and stressed if they are forced to relocate ... but it is not them who will be protesting: It will be the Hamas-linked organizations pulling some radicals together. The rank-and-file "Palestinian" only wants to be left along to herd their goats.
                Probably won't be organized under hamas, I agree. A different group that has evolved and recognized the futility of violent resistance is another matter. That is what happened in S. Africa and India, as I already noted.

                As for the permanent residency status of Palestinian groups, it is important to distinguish between Bedouin (nomad or recently settled nomad) and other muslim groups that have been urban and/or otherwise living in organized residential areas for several decades (or centuries). The one announcing at the circus will point out what he wants us to see. If we want to know the rest of the story, we need to look at other sources. Here's one:
                https://www.knesset.gov.il/lexicon/eng/bedouim_eng.htm

                ?


                • #23
                  I don't see much difference between what that website has to say and what I saw while over there.

                  ?


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DavidSF View Post
                    I don't see much difference between what that website has to say and what I saw while over there.
                    Not so much what you saw, but where you saw nomads or other non-urban palestinians. You didn't see them inside the Gaza territory. That is one of the major centers of opposition.

                    ?

                    Working...
                    X