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OWS Constitutional Convention?

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  • OWS Constitutional Convention?

    Dont panic yet. But we might start getting worried if this ever became serious. Could you imagine these guys deciding they represent 99% of americans (i guess the 1% dont matter), and passing a new constitution? Not that the states would ever pass it. Their movement actually depends on their 1% telling the other 99% how to live.

    https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

    WHEREAS THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION PROVIDES THAT:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.




    BE IT RESOLVED THAT:

    WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the PEOPLE, shall elect and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia.
    Again. only 99% of americans get to decide how to run the country. The other 1% are chop liver. And heres what they propose:

    1. Implementing an immediate ban on all private contributions of money and gifts, to all politicians in federal office, from individuals, corporations, "political action committees", "super political action committees", lobbyists, unions and all other private sources of money or thing of value to be replaced by the fair, equal and total public financing of all federal political campaigns.
    -ban individuals from supporting polticians. from now on the politicians themselves will decide who wins and we'll spend billions (which the rich will have to front) to fund anyone who wants to run

    2. The immediate abrogation, even if it requires a Constitutional Amendment, of the outrageous and anti-democratic holding in the "Citizens United" case proclaimed by the United States Supreme Court.
    Basically the same as #1. OWS doesnt think giving money to someone running for office is free speech. they want the govt to run elections, not citizens

    3. Prohibiting all federal public employees, officers, officials or their immediate family members from ever being employed by any corporation, individual or business that they specifically regulated while in office; nor may any public employee, officer, official or their immediate family members own or hold any stock or shares in any corporation they regulated while in office until a full 5 years after their term is completed; and a complete lifetime ban on accepting all gifts, services, money or thing of value, directly or indirectly, to any elected or appointed federal official or their immediate family members, from any person, corporation, union or other entity that the public official was charged to specifically regulate while in office.
    -this one kind of makes sense. once you serve in office, you are never allowed to have any connection to anything you may have regulated

    4. Term Limits. Members of the United States House of Representatives shall be limited to serving no more than four two-year terms in their lifetime. Members of the United States Senate shall be limited to serving no more than two six-year terms in their lifetime. The two term limit for President shall remain unchanged.

    -sounds good to me. i would make it one term

    5. A complete reformation of the United States Tax Code to require ALL citizens to pay a fair share of a progressive, graduated income tax by eliminating loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies (e.g. oil, gas and farm) and ending all other methods of evading taxes.

    -i wonder if they know this will raise taxes on the poor? maybe they think a fair share is 0%? these guys are starting to sound like tea partiers

    6. Medicare for all American citizens or adoption of a single-payer healthcare system. The Medicaid program, fraught with corruption and fraud, will be eliminated except for the purpose of providing emergency room care to indigent non-citizens who will not be covered by the single-payer healthcare system.

    -national healthcare, eliminate medicaid. theyre half right

    7. New comprehensive regulations to give the Environmental Protection Agency expanded powers to shut down corporations, businesses or any entities that intentionally or recklessly damage the environment and/or criminally prosecute individuals who intentionally damage the environment.

    -im guessing they include carbon dioxide as damage, but in spirit, I dont think anyone is against punishing anyone who intentionally hurts others. probably should be done by the justice dept though, not some agency

    it goes on and on an on

    -reduce the debt by ending wars, nationalize healthcare (that sounds like a debt increase), end subsidies
    -free job training
    -pay off everyones student loans
    -amnesty
    -close all military bases
    -free education
    -business tax incentives (though we were against business)
    -trade war with china
    -wall street regs
    -pay off everyones mortgage
    -campaign reform
    -withdrawl from iraq

    Actually quite a lot that Republicans, conservatives, tea partiers, libertarians agree with. Very anti-capitalist though. They want an very regulated market, which is socialism.

  • #2
    Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

    I suppose they won't mind if the Tea Party has one.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

      A constitutional congress? That would imply they were the congress wouldn't it? That sounds like insurrection to me.

      Now a party meeting where they formalize their goals and movement, go for it.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

        Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
        A constitutional congress? That would imply they were the congress wouldn't it? That sounds like insurrection to me.

        Now a party meeting where they formalize their goals and movement, go for it.
        Actually, they have their solution right in the text of the declaration:
        BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that IF the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES approved by the 870 Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in consultation with the PEOPLE, is not acted upon within a reasonable time and to the satisfaction of the Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, said Delegates shall organize a new COMPLETELY NON-PARTISAN INDEPENDENT POLITICAL PARTY to run candidates for every available Congressional seat in the mid-term election of 2014 and again in 2016 until all vestiges of the existing corrupt corporatocracy have been removed by the ballot box.
        I'd say "let 'em go for it".

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

          I agree with just about all of them.

          ESPECIALLY numbers 1,2,3,4 and 19.

          You don't need to donate money to a candidate to support that candidate. Given our current campaign finance system it's a necessity but if we revise the system to eliminate financial contributions altoghther then it's no longer is. You can support a candidate by talking the candidate up, "campaigning" for that candidate, and *gasp* voting for the candidate.

          Further, money isn't speech and corporations aren't people. I don't care what deinition of "speech" or "person" you use, money isn't speech and corporations aren't people.

          The fucktarded state of campaign finance in America is probably the A#1 reason that we're held hostage by the glad handing D.C. scumbags. I'd add the current "no term limits on Congress" rule as a very close second.

          Numbers 5,6,7, and 8 would all depend on how the laws supporting them were written. They're all very broad demands.

          I disagree with number 9. In fact I think it's pretty stupid and would be so fucking expensive that it would erase any debt reduction gains any of the other points would win us for at least the next 100 years.

          Numbers 10,17 and 18 I disagree with. No ex post facto laws absolving people of debts they've already entered into.

          11 I agree with if we were also to impliment a major border security plan to ensure that NOBODY who doesn't come in through legal means gets in. I would also insist on positively draconian laws related to the punishment of any immigration law violators going forward.

          12 I agree with in principal but if we polled 100 people we'd probably get 100 different ideas on what foreign military bases are "essential". I'm sure our allies (real allies) would have their own ideas.

          13 I like a lot. Especially the part about making teaching a private sector job.

          14 I can live with.

          15 I can live with.

          16 asks for too much. I'd like to see each of the several points it mentions itemized and then described in detail. Otherwise, some of it makes sense, other, not so much.

          Number 20 is knee-jerk. We're they, we broke it, we need to fix it. "Immediate" doesn't enter into that equation.


          Originally posted by Commodore
          I suppose they won't mind if the Tea Party has one.
          I think it would be cool if the Tea Party drew one up and then the two groups got together and consolidated them into one that both groups could agree upon in principal.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

            Originally posted by soot View Post
            I don't care what deinition of "speech" or "person" you use, money isn't speech and corporations aren't people.
            Unless, one defines speech as money and corporations as people.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

              Originally posted by soot View Post
              Further, money isn't speech and corporations aren't people. I don't care what deinition of "speech" or "person" you use, money isn't speech and corporations aren't people.
              Advertisement of ideas and candidates in form of everything from tv ads to bumper stickers cost money to create/air. Speaking may be free, but getting people to listen cost money. Get over it.

              And corporations are groups of people with a common objective, getting a return on their investment. Again, get over it.
              Originally posted by soot View Post
              I think it would be cool if the Tea Party drew one up and then the two groups got together and consolidated them into one that both groups could agree upon in principal.
              I think that list would be rather short.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                With respect... who the fuck cares?

                This is policy masturbation, nothing more and nothing less.

                Why is that? Because the Tea Party, a true grassroots organization, went from talking policy to finding and backing candidates, and getting them elected. The Democrats, who have bought and paid for the #OWS rabble, aren't going to allow their guys get primaried Think #OWS will be allowed to run in a primary again Berry Frank, because he took Wall Street money? What about Kirsten Gillibrand?

                Never
                Going
                To
                Happen...

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                  Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                  Get over it.

                  Again, get over it.
                  Why?

                  Why would I get over anything political?

                  Why wouldn't I advocate for policy that I'd like to see and against an issue that I think it the result of bullshit cronyism?

                  Yeah, ummmm.. duhhhh... uhhhh...

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                    Originally posted by soot View Post
                    Why?

                    Why would I get over anything political?

                    Why wouldn't I advocate for policy that I'd like to see and against an issue that I think it the result of bullshit cronyism?

                    Yeah, ummmm.. duhhhh... uhhhh...
                    Because its a fact of life.

                    Because everyone from the camera operator to the printer to everyone who makes their tools likes to get paid.

                    Because the people who get paid for their work need to make arraignments for the day they don't work.

                    Because Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, where kicked out of the garden of eden, and forced to eat bread by the sweat of their brow.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                      Originally posted by soot View Post
                      I agree with just about all of them.

                      ESPECIALLY numbers 1,2,3,4 and 19.

                      You don't need to donate money to a candidate to support that candidate. Given our current campaign finance system it's a necessity but if we revise the system to eliminate financial contributions altoghther then it's no longer is. You can support a candidate by talking the candidate up, "campaigning" for that candidate, and *gasp* voting for the candidate.
                      But what if you want to help a candidate pay for the expense of traveling and communication? Under OWS you would be prohibited. They are punishing citizens for how a elected official acts.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                        Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                        With respect... who the fuck cares?

                        This is policy masturbation, nothing more and nothing less.

                        Why is that? Because the Tea Party, a true grassroots organization, went from talking policy to finding and backing candidates, and getting them elected. The Democrats, who have bought and paid for the #OWS rabble, aren't going to allow their guys get primaried Think #OWS will be allowed to run in a primary again Berry Frank, because he took Wall Street money? What about Kirsten Gillibrand?

                        Never
                        Going
                        To
                        Happen...
                        Rabble are we? God, I can see you so well in that bright red coat.

                        The 99% weren't already in operation before Obama was even President because your "true 'grassroots' organization" didn't have corporate money ready for years, even decades, if a liberal were to be elected. It takes normal people TIME to organize and, especially in these times, to finance, a political movement. There's still plenty of time to 2012, they will field candidates, never fear, fear instead for your ideology, for once we win it will be swept away

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                          Originally posted by John Drake View Post
                          Rabble are we? God, I can see you so well in that bright red coat.

                          The 99% weren't already in operation before Obama was even President because your "true 'grassroots' organization" didn't have corporate money ready for years, even decades, if a liberal were to be elected. It takes normal people TIME to organize and, especially in these times, to finance, a political movement. There's still plenty of time to 2012, they will field candidates, never fear, fear instead for your ideology, for once we win it will be swept away
                          In what universe does that even make sense?

                          Are you now claiming to be a part of #OWS, John?

                          If so, are you handing out or taking the 15/hr as advertized on Craig's List to take part?

                          Tea Party folks held our rallies and then went home... and got up and went to work. No one was paid for any of it outside of your fantasizes. #OWS is advertizing... #OWS is fully funded my Soros and the unions, as it has been reported.

                          So John, whose seats are you going to try and win? Barny Frank?

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                            Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                            In what universe does that even make sense?

                            Are you now claiming to be a part of #OWS, John?

                            If so, are you handing out or taking the 15/hr as advertized on Craig's List to take part?

                            Tea Party folks held our rallies and then went home... and got up and went to work. No one was paid for any of it outside of your fantasizes. #OWS is advertizing... #OWS is fully funded my Soros and the unions, as it has been reported.

                            So John, whose seats are you going to try and win? Barny Frank?
                            Link please.

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                            • #15
                              Re: OWS Constitutional Convention?

                              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                              A constitutional congress? That would imply they were the congress wouldn't it? That sounds like insurrection to me.

                              Now a party meeting where they formalize their goals and movement, go for it.
                              That's what this is really. It's in answer to all the people saying "....but what are you FOR?" (besides fair taxation for everyone). A Constitutional Convention can be called FOR by anyone, but Congress (and I think the States, but am not sure of that), does the actual calling. It's not insurrection for regular people to ask Congress to do something, (we're not into your conservative utopia yet).

                              It's actually far more comprehensive and well-thought out than anything I've seen from the Tea Party. There's nothing at all about outlawing masturbation and witchcraft, and no tax plans based on the magical properties of the number 9, frex.

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