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I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

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  • I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

    I hope I'm not alone here, but from reading through the threads in this subforum, it appears I may be. It seems like I'm one of the few people who is glad that we have both the Tea Party and OWS. I'm actually a little bit surprised at the venom the left has spewed at the Tea Party, and the equal amount of venom from the right toward OWS. Well, I guess I'm not that surprised, since knee jerk "I hate anything not like me" reactions are pretty common around here.

    One of the big complaints that seems to be shared between those on the left and right, or Americans in general, is the ridiculous status quo of Washington. It's not a new thing, as Presidential candidates vowing to 'change Washington' have been around for awhile now. The days where Lincoln's slogan of "Don't swap horses in the middle of the stream" are long past, giving way to slogans such as Bush's "Reformer with results" and "Yes, America can!" and Obama's more streamlined, "Yes, we can!". Most Americans, whether on the left or the right, have a pretty dismal view of our government, especially congress.

    And yet, when two groups come along that have the potential to break the political stale mate and turn the status quo on end, everybody gets all angry. The common themes are desires to see the TP or OWS fail and wither into obscurity with their tail between their legs. Finally, people are taking notable action and actually doing something about their grievances with the government, and instead of getting a thumbs up by the tired American people hoping for someone to light a fire under the politicians, they get scorned and dragged through the mud.

    Let me be clear, I disagree with the Tea Party on a lot of things, rarely giving their ideas on how to better America my own approval. As for OWS, I'm not exactly a big supporter either and you won't be seeing me join their ranks any time soon. But, it's not so much what they want, but the very fact that, unlike a lot of the silent majority, they're actually trying to get it. They're getting off their asses and doing something about the things they view as major problems. It doesn't matter what's written on the brick they're throwing through the government's window, it's the fact that they're throwing a brick to begin with.

    So, maybe you really dislike what the Tea Party or OWS stand for. But, remember, while the Tea Part and OWS may one day fall by the wayside and end up as nothing more than a footnote in the history of the country, they're still doing a great service. They're reminding the country that we do have a voice and that we can mobilize and make the changes ourselves. The Tea Party and OWS may very well inspire more political action, more protests, more power to the people, and in the end, more change in the way our government operates than any President could ever bring us on their own. They could be the beginning of something larger, and I could not in good conscience ever wish that Americans fail at getting their government's attention.

    And for all that, I salute you Tea Party and OWS. Keep on fighting the good fight and keep on reminding us that we do have a voice outside of the multiple-choice question at the ballot box.

  • #2
    Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

    I don't have it in for OWS, per se. I actually agree that it is a good thing some people care enough about the country to either 'occupy' or attend rallies.

    That said, a lot of what OWS stands for needs to be confronted. If they had their way, it would be the end of this country as we know it. And I don't think that's hyperbole.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

      Originally posted by Speakeasy View Post
      I hope I'm not alone here, but from reading through the threads in this subforum, it appears I may be. It seems like I'm one of the few people who is glad that we have both the Tea Party and OWS. I'm actually a little bit surprised at the venom the left has spewed at the Tea Party, and the equal amount of venom from the right toward OWS. Well, I guess I'm not that surprised, since knee jerk "I hate anything not like me" reactions are pretty common around here.

      One of the big complaints that seems to be shared between those on the left and right, or Americans in general, is the ridiculous status quo of Washington. It's not a new thing, as Presidential candidates vowing to 'change Washington' have been around for awhile now. The days where Lincoln's slogan of "Don't swap horses in the middle of the stream" are long past, giving way to slogans such as Bush's "Reformer with results" and "Yes, America can!" and Obama's more streamlined, "Yes, we can!". Most Americans, whether on the left or the right, have a pretty dismal view of our government, especially congress.

      And yet, when two groups come along that have the potential to break the political stale mate and turn the status quo on end, everybody gets all angry. The common themes are desires to see the TP or OWS fail and wither into obscurity with their tail between their legs. Finally, people are taking notable action and actually doing something about their grievances with the government, and instead of getting a thumbs up by the tired American people hoping for someone to light a fire under the politicians, they get scorned and dragged through the mud.

      Let me be clear, I disagree with the Tea Party on a lot of things, rarely giving their ideas on how to better America my own approval. As for OWS, I'm not exactly a big supporter either and you won't be seeing me join their ranks any time soon. But, it's not so much what they want, but the very fact that, unlike a lot of the silent majority, they're actually trying to get it. They're getting off their asses and doing something about the things they view as major problems. It doesn't matter what's written on the brick they're throwing through the government's window, it's the fact that they're throwing a brick to begin with.

      So, maybe you really dislike what the Tea Party or OWS stand for. But, remember, while the Tea Part and OWS may one day fall by the wayside and end up as nothing more than a footnote in the history of the country, they're still doing a great service. They're reminding the country that we do have a voice and that we can mobilize and make the changes ourselves. The Tea Party and OWS may very well inspire more political action, more protests, more power to the people, and in the end, more change in the way our government operates than any President could ever bring us on their own. They could be the beginning of something larger, and I could not in good conscience ever wish that Americans fail at getting their government's attention.

      And for all that, I salute you Tea Party and OWS. Keep on fighting the good fight and keep on reminding us that we do have a voice outside of the multiple-choice question at the ballot box.
      I completely support the OWS movement's right to protest, so long as they aren't being violent or violating reasonable restrictions on public property use.

      One of the things that makes this country great is that we can do these sorts of things to petition our government for redress of grievances.

      When it comes to the majority of the OWS movement - who are not violent - while I might not agree with everything they say (and in fact might vehemently disagree with some of it), I will defend their right to say it unfailingly.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

        Originally posted by Speakeasy View Post
        I hope I'm not alone here, but from reading through the threads in this subforum, it appears I may be. It seems like I'm one of the few people who is glad that we have both the Tea Party and OWS. I'm actually a little bit surprised at the venom the left has spewed at the Tea Party, and the equal amount of venom from the right toward OWS. Well, I guess I'm not that surprised, since knee jerk "I hate anything not like me" reactions are pretty common around here.
        Right there with ya. I'm glad we have the Tea Party and OWS. I even briefly (and foolishly) thought the two might be able to find some common ground, which is, of course, impossible. I'm still glad they're there, none the less. I fear the Tea Party has been swallowed and re-programed by the Republicans, but maybe not. OWS is still in it's infancy, we'll see where it goes. In order to accomplish anything, I think they're going to need to change their model from "occupy", which basically looks like urban camping, to one-day or weekend long rallies, marches on state capitals & DC, etc. And they obviously need to solidify and narrow-down their message, especially if they want to gain more widespread support.

        Both movements have been refreshing to see.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

          Originally posted by darth omar View Post
          I don't have it in for OWS, per se. I actually agree that it is a good thing some people care enough about the country to either 'occupy' or attend rallies.

          That said, a lot of what OWS stands for needs to be confronted. If they had their way, it would be the end of this country as we know it. And I don't think that's hyperbole.
          And I say confront them where you disagree with them, for sure. 'Forcing' us to have these debates and discussions is very welcome, as far as I'm concerned, and that's another huge plus that the two movements have brought. I don't agree with a lot of their demands, either, nor do I think a Tea Party America is a place I'd want to call home, either. I have plenty of issues with both of them, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a refreshing change. During Bush, there were plenty of anti-war marches, but those are different, those are for one single specific issue, and not about focusing on the problems at large, which the Tea Party and OWS both seem to be aimed at. I don't think the Tea Party or OWS speak for the majority of Americans, but I do think their actions can inspire the majority of Americans to speak up. The two groups could very well be paving the way for a far more cohesive and far greater supported movement that most of us could agree with. And that would be great. I see them both as laying the ground work for some real potential positive change.
          Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
          I completely support the OWS movement's right to protest, so long as they aren't being violent or violating reasonable restrictions on public property use.

          One of the things that makes this country great is that we can do these sorts of things to petition our government for redress of grievances.

          When it comes to the majority of the OWS movement - who are not violent - while I might not agree with everything they say (and in fact might vehemently disagree with some of it), I will defend their right to say it unfailingly.
          Agreed, there are certainly bad apples to be found, but they hardly define the two movements. The left loves to find the rare racist or bigot in the Tea Party and deviously use them as an example of all Tea Party members. The right likes to zero in on the few acts of violence done by the OWSers and paint the whole movement with that brush. But, these are just tactics to divide, when we should be looking at how these movements actually unite us in our wish to change the way things work. Neither side are enemies, they're both just different approaches to different problems. I'll even happily accept unlawful civil disobedience from either side, as long as it remains non-violent.

          I just find it unusual at how quick people are on this board to hope that one or the other group is silenced and pushed into obscurity. It gives the impression that people don't mind the status quo as long as it works in their favor, and that seems pretty dishonest to me.
          Originally posted by Jefe View Post
          Right there with ya. I'm glad we have the Tea Party and OWS. I even briefly (and foolishly) thought the two might be able to find some common ground, which is, of course, impossible. I'm still glad they're there, none the less. I fear the Tea Party has been swallowed and re-programed by the Republicans, but maybe not. OWS is still in it's infancy, we'll see where it goes. In order to accomplish anything, I think they're going to need to change their model from "occupy", which basically looks like urban camping, to one-day or weekend long rallies, marches on state capitals & DC, etc. And they obviously need to solidify and narrow-down their message, especially if they want to gain more widespread support.

          Both movements have been refreshing to see.
          A lot of the Tea Party has been co-opted by the Republican party, but not all of it. Remember, the Tea Party isn't the monolithic force that they often present themselves to be, or as others paint them to be. Different chapters often disagree with each other, even calling each other out on terrible policies or actions. As long as it remains this way, I'm happy. And no doubt, the OWS movement is probably getting its fair share of support from liberal organizations, who also want to capitalize on it like the Republicans with te Tea Party.

          Glad to see others agree, though. Wishing that Americans standing up for what they believe to be silenced and ignored comes off as a desire to let the government just keep on doing its thing as usual.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

            In that the Tea Party did actually put people on the ballot in a large number of races (win or lose) this separates them from OWS, in that people did get a '3rd choice' to vote for. (that you might not like that choice is not the point)

            Given what we know of the OWS 'movement' they are not set to do that, nor does it seem to be a goal of theirs. They are far more a PR driven beast.... 'hey look at me! look at me!'

            Now the problem OWS would have in implementing a Tea Party type election strategy (setting aside for the moment both the lack of skill and of desire) is that while there were a number of Blue Dog Democrats and RINOs to target, there are far less likely targets for a far left candidacy. Are they going to 'primary' Henry Waxman? Nancy Pelosi? Unlikely. Now there are some seats that they might go after... or want to go after. Maybe the open seat in CT (Joe Lieberman) or Ben Nelson in Nebraska... or may NY 9 that just elected a Republican. But the shear numbers stack against them getting anything close to a working group, yet alone a majority in either house.

            Once you get to the skills issue... there were a clear dozen STL Tea Party folks that could mount a campaign. The STL occupy group... not one.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

              Originally posted by Speakeasy View Post
              As for OWS, I'm not exactly a big supporter either and you won't be seeing me join their ranks any time soon. But, it's not so much what they want, but the very fact that, unlike a lot of the silent majority, they're actually trying to get it.
              What are they trying to get, and how are they trying to get it?

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                In that the Tea Party did actually put people on the ballot in a large number of races (win or lose) this separates them from OWS, in that people did get a '3rd choice' to vote for. (that you might not like that choice is not the point)

                Given what we know of the OWS 'movement' they are not set to do that, nor does it seem to be a goal of theirs. They are far more a PR driven beast.... 'hey look at me! look at me!'

                Now the problem OWS would have in implementing a Tea Party type election strategy (setting aside for the moment both the lack of skill and of desire) is that while there were a number of Blue Dog Democrats and RINOs to target, there are far less likely targets for a far left candidacy. Are they going to 'primary' Henry Waxman? Nancy Pelosi? Unlikely. Now there are some seats that they might go after... or want to go after. Maybe the open seat in CT (Joe Lieberman) or Ben Nelson in Nebraska... or may NY 9 that just elected a Republican. But the shear numbers stack against them getting anything close to a working group, yet alone a majority in either house.

                Once you get to the skills issue... there were a clear dozen STL Tea Party folks that could mount a campaign. The STL occupy group... not one.
                I agree with everything you said here, but it seems like you're forgetting to account for the fact that the whole OWS has been around for only two months. At this point in the history of the Tea Party, they were still busy shouting at town meetings, they hadn't even gotten their rallies rolling yet. That said, yeah, OWS doesn't have the goal of getting people elected in to office. They may not want to implement a Tea Party type election strategy. It's still so early in this movement.

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                • #9
                  Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                  Originally posted by Speakeasy View Post
                  I hope I'm not alone here, but from reading through the threads in this subforum, it appears I may be. It seems like I'm one of the few people who is glad that we have both the Tea Party and OWS. I'm actually a little bit surprised at the venom the left has spewed at the Tea Party, and the equal amount of venom from the right toward OWS. Well, I guess I'm not that surprised, since knee jerk "I hate anything not like me" reactions are pretty common around here.

                  One of the big complaints that seems to be shared between those on the left and right, or Americans in general, is the ridiculous status quo of Washington. It's not a new thing, as Presidential candidates vowing to 'change Washington' have been around for awhile now. The days where Lincoln's slogan of "Don't swap horses in the middle of the stream" are long past, giving way to slogans such as Bush's "Reformer with results" and "Yes, America can!" and Obama's more streamlined, "Yes, we can!". Most Americans, whether on the left or the right, have a pretty dismal view of our government, especially congress.

                  And yet, when two groups come along that have the potential to break the political stale mate and turn the status quo on end, everybody gets all angry. The common themes are desires to see the TP or OWS fail and wither into obscurity with their tail between their legs. Finally, people are taking notable action and actually doing something about their grievances with the government, and instead of getting a thumbs up by the tired American people hoping for someone to light a fire under the politicians, they get scorned and dragged through the mud.

                  Let me be clear, I disagree with the Tea Party on a lot of things, rarely giving their ideas on how to better America my own approval. As for OWS, I'm not exactly a big supporter either and you won't be seeing me join their ranks any time soon. But, it's not so much what they want, but the very fact that, unlike a lot of the silent majority, they're actually trying to get it. They're getting off their asses and doing something about the things they view as major problems. It doesn't matter what's written on the brick they're throwing through the government's window, it's the fact that they're throwing a brick to begin with.

                  So, maybe you really dislike what the Tea Party or OWS stand for. But, remember, while the Tea Part and OWS may one day fall by the wayside and end up as nothing more than a footnote in the history of the country, they're still doing a great service. They're reminding the country that we do have a voice and that we can mobilize and make the changes ourselves. The Tea Party and OWS may very well inspire more political action, more protests, more power to the people, and in the end, more change in the way our government operates than any President could ever bring us on their own. They could be the beginning of something larger, and I could not in good conscience ever wish that Americans fail at getting their government's attention.

                  And for all that, I salute you Tea Party and OWS. Keep on fighting the good fight and keep on reminding us that we do have a voice outside of the multiple-choice question at the ballot box.
                  You are not alone. I thought I was. I was the only one, when talking to others, that was happy that both sides had the opportunity to voice their opinions without tanks in the streets and mass arrests. This is a strength of our system, not weakness.





                  ....but then it has been said, many times.....I'm a bit strange.

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                  • #10
                    Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                    Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                    In that the Tea Party did actually put people on the ballot in a large number of races (win or lose) this separates them from OWS, in that people did get a '3rd choice' to vote for. (that you might not like that choice is not the point)

                    Given what we know of the OWS 'movement' they are not set to do that, nor does it seem to be a goal of theirs. They are far more a PR driven beast.... 'hey look at me! look at me!'

                    Now the problem OWS would have in implementing a Tea Party type election strategy (setting aside for the moment both the lack of skill and of desire) is that while there were a number of Blue Dog Democrats and RINOs to target, there are far less likely targets for a far left candidacy. Are they going to 'primary' Henry Waxman? Nancy Pelosi? Unlikely. Now there are some seats that they might go after... or want to go after. Maybe the open seat in CT (Joe Lieberman) or Ben Nelson in Nebraska... or may NY 9 that just elected a Republican. But the shear numbers stack against them getting anything close to a working group, yet alone a majority in either house.

                    Once you get to the skills issue... there were a clear dozen STL Tea Party folks that could mount a campaign. The STL occupy group... not one.
                    I won't argue with you there. Jefe already touched upon the points I wanted to bring up as a response. And as I've mentioned, there's still a decent chance the OWS movement will eventually vanish into the night. But, it's not so much about comparing the two, or the effectiveness of the two (I actually think the two are employing completely different strategies that are difficult to compare/constrast), but merely about the fact that the two exist. Even if he two movements only end up ultimately inspiring a greater trend in American politics, they've already done a great service, as far as I'm concerned.
                    Originally posted by CharlesDavenport View Post
                    What are they trying to get, and how are they trying to get it?
                    Not really the point of this thread, there are about 30 other threads to discuss that. I did touch upon it, though, when I said "It doesn't matter what's written on the brick they're throwing through the government's window, it's the fact that they're throwing a brick to begin with."
                    Originally posted by a777pilot View Post
                    You are not alone. I thought I was. I was the only one, when talking to others, that was happy that both sides had the opportunity to voice their opinions without tanks in the streets and mass arrests. This is a strength of our system, not weakness.





                    ....but then it has been said, many times.....I'm a bit strange.
                    Glad to hear it, sir. One more thing we agree on.

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                    • #11
                      Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                      I've been fairly vocal in my criticisim of and/or disdain for both the TP and the OWS.

                      I see nothing at all redeeming from the OWS. Nothing. They're protesting. Wow!!! Protesting what? Well, this, that, and the other thing. Are they a big protest? Not really. Any one "occupation" site might number between a handful of people and a few hundred at any given time which may swell to maybe 1000 on a REALLY BIG DAY. So what?

                      If you think back to the early days of Operation Iraqi Freedom there were hundreds of thousands of protesters gathering on the same day, in the same place, with a clear, coherent, and loud message.

                      What did it get them?

                      Nothing.

                      The same people were still out protesting the same war, in the same numbers, at the same volume, four and five years later and it didn't get them shit.

                      They only stopped protesting because a Democrat was elected. A Democrat who continued the previous andministration's war policies pretty much to the letter (if there was any variation at all it was increased warfare).

                      So I'm going to disagree with you that this OWS bullshit is somehow "new and different", as though people are FINALLY standing up and doing something, taking responsibility for the political direction of this country, after decades of idleness.

                      It's not new, and they're not doing anything. Unless of course you think that standing around bitching about how hard life is rather than actually doing something about it is doing something.

                      As for the Tea Party, I give them credit for actually doing something about their concerns/complaints rather than just sitting around crying.

                      I don't really care for much of their message and I think many of their more public figures are idiots, but I respect what they did (what they're doing) as a movement.

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                      • #12
                        Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                        Originally posted by Speakeasy View Post
                        I hope I'm not alone here, but from reading through the threads in this subforum, it appears I may be. It seems like I'm one of the few people who is glad that we have both the Tea Party and OWS. I'm actually a little bit surprised at the venom the left has spewed at the Tea Party, and the equal amount of venom from the right toward OWS. Well, I guess I'm not that surprised, since knee jerk "I hate anything not like me" reactions are pretty common around here.

                        One of the big complaints that seems to be shared between those on the left and right, or Americans in general, is the ridiculous status quo of Washington. It's not a new thing, as Presidential candidates vowing to 'change Washington' have been around for awhile now. The days where Lincoln's slogan of "Don't swap horses in the middle of the stream" are long past, giving way to slogans such as Bush's "Reformer with results" and "Yes, America can!" and Obama's more streamlined, "Yes, we can!". Most Americans, whether on the left or the right, have a pretty dismal view of our government, especially congress.

                        And yet, when two groups come along that have the potential to break the political stale mate and turn the status quo on end, everybody gets all angry. The common themes are desires to see the TP or OWS fail and wither into obscurity with their tail between their legs. Finally, people are taking notable action and actually doing something about their grievances with the government, and instead of getting a thumbs up by the tired American people hoping for someone to light a fire under the politicians, they get scorned and dragged through the mud.

                        Let me be clear, I disagree with the Tea Party on a lot of things, rarely giving their ideas on how to better America my own approval. As for OWS, I'm not exactly a big supporter either and you won't be seeing me join their ranks any time soon. But, it's not so much what they want, but the very fact that, unlike a lot of the silent majority, they're actually trying to get it. They're getting off their asses and doing something about the things they view as major problems. It doesn't matter what's written on the brick they're throwing through the government's window, it's the fact that they're throwing a brick to begin with.

                        So, maybe you really dislike what the Tea Party or OWS stand for. But, remember, while the Tea Part and OWS may one day fall by the wayside and end up as nothing more than a footnote in the history of the country, they're still doing a great service. They're reminding the country that we do have a voice and that we can mobilize and make the changes ourselves. The Tea Party and OWS may very well inspire more political action, more protests, more power to the people, and in the end, more change in the way our government operates than any President could ever bring us on their own. They could be the beginning of something larger, and I could not in good conscience ever wish that Americans fail at getting their government's attention.

                        And for all that, I salute you Tea Party and OWS. Keep on fighting the good fight and keep on reminding us that we do have a voice outside of the multiple-choice question at the ballot box.
                        I bet all the new yorkers that are trying to go home this evening are going to really, really, be thankful for their OWS friends.
                        Clogging up the subways and the B Bridge is such a great way to win over some newbies to the movement!

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                        • #13
                          Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                          Originally posted by Speakeasy View Post

                          Not really the point of this thread, there are about 30 other threads to discuss that. I did touch upon it, though, when I said "It doesn't matter what's written on the brick they're throwing through the government's window, it's the fact that they're throwing a brick to begin with."
                          It was an honest question. I thought that your post implied that you knew the answer, but that was a faulty inference. You've clarified above that you are encouraged by any flailing about by the populace. I disagree, and am actually discouraged (but not surprised) whenever stupidity shows up in force and is celebrated.

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                          • #14
                            Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                            I dont support the teabaggers, I think they're damaging their interests more than helping and I feel they're a negative influence in politics.

                            I dont strenuously support the OWS people. I think they're dedicated but aimless and that rarely brings about positive change.

                            That said, I do agree with the OP that its laudable that both groups are doing what they're doing in the spirit of the first Amendment. That said, however, I dont see either group making a positive impact. We've already seen the teabaggers skunk the Republicans (which, depending on your views may be a good thing) and the OWS people are too disorganized and aimless to make real positive change happen. I think both movements will eventually either fizzle out or just slowly exsanguinate once enough time passes without change. Again, it's already happened with the teabaggers; they pulled what? 300,000 people out and now they're down to a core of maybe 70,000.

                            I think it's going to take something far more drastic to really change the landscape and bring the average American to the table.

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                            • #15
                              Re: I'm Thankful For Both the Tea Party and OWS

                              Originally posted by Speakeasy View Post
                              I hope I'm not alone here, but from reading through the threads in this subforum, it appears I may be. It seems like I'm one of the few people who is glad that we have both the Tea Party and OWS. I'm actually a little bit surprised at the venom the left has spewed at the Tea Party, and the equal amount of venom from the right toward OWS. Well, I guess I'm not that surprised, since knee jerk "I hate anything not like me" reactions are pretty common around here...............

                              And for all that, I salute you Tea Party and OWS. Keep on fighting the good fight and keep on reminding us that we do have a voice outside of the multiple-choice question at the ballot box.
                              Gracious and generous as always Speakeasy.

                              I agree that it is very good that they are free to speak and express themselves.

                              I don't agree that they are a positive force at this point. The tea party have not yet learned to govern. The OWS people have pushed out moderates and centrists - and conservatives are their favorite enemy after Wall Street and the police.

                              I distrust anger and narcissism. Watching OWS running screaming through the streets today in NYC, making life miserable for commuters, is sickening stuff. Their self-pity is a bottomless pit.

                              Watching the tea party have tantrums in Washington while they announce that they don't care if the economy is hurt by the budget impasse because they want what they want is also sickening.

                              So yes, it's good that they can express themselves. But I'd also like them to be reasonable, thoughtful, serious and aware and act like adults who have to acknowledge other human beings and views.

                              And I would love it if they just stopped talking and listened. They never shut up - like crazed parrots in cages that keep yapping away

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