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Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

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  • Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

    To save the republic, only a viable 3rd party can do it.

    And here is what I hope our future is, but not necessarily the two men in the video below, but with the same beliefs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Ugx...layer_embedded


    Snowden, would be a hero to the people who believe as these guys do, and I agree, especially after reading what another whistleblower was subjected to by this corporate/banking oligarchy called the US Gov't. A man who used the right channels, for naught. And at great personal grief.

    So, what do you cons and libs think of these two guys discussing the deep rooted problems we have today with the US Gov't? Nuts? Radicals? Or speakers of fact?

  • #2
    Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

    We have no choice now but to have a 3rd party for the sake of the republic. Neither today's Republicans nor Democrats have an interest in all at being a Constitutional Republic. Because of their respective extremisms, and honestly silly in the bubble behavior, a good 3rd party would force them both to reconsider their views to divide the nation. It could also give representation to an increasing number of the populace that feels alienated from government.

    A problem (of many) is the Senate, a strong 3rd party would force compromise or nothing.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

      Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
      We have no choice now but to have a 3rd party for the sake of the republic. Neither today's Republicans nor Democrats have an interest in all at being a Constitutional Republic. Because of their respective extremisms, and honestly silly in the bubble behavior, a good 3rd party would force them both to reconsider their views to divide the nation. It could also give representation to an increasing number of the populace that feels alienated from government.

      A problem (of many) is the Senate, a strong 3rd party would force compromise or nothing.
      Since neither of the major parties is about to allow this to happen, what is your plan B? Mine is the Tea Party candidates taking out Old Guard Republicans. We effectively have a third party in the Tea Party candidates and both the Democrats and the Old Guard Republicans are trying to oust them.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

        Instead of parties, what we really need is a different way of looking at politics.

        Socialists serve an important purpose in that they identify the challenges people face.

        Libertarians serve and important purpose in that they identify that those challenges are best faced by the individual and family.

        The trouble is that the ability to face those challenges that characterized our nations first century, a period that rightfully stands as the benchmark of the expansion and extent of individual rights, liberties, and responsibilities which we aught to hold ourselves to, has been vigorously and systematically purged from the public intellect by the following century of "progressive" policy.

        What Judge Napolitano and others fail to comprehend, and Mr Ventura has taken too many chairs to the head to even begin to gasp, is that short of an equally vigorous and systematic effort to restore that capability, and build it up where it does not exist, those in power will continue to laugh in their faces as those frightened of the responsibility required of libertarianism flee into the clutches of the "progressives", who's sole objective is to continue the dumbing down of the populous until no one would dare question their right to rule out of fear of the cord being cut.

        Judge Napolitano admits as much when he says that as consequence of the Civil Rights Act, the natural right of association where people associate with whomever they choose, and property owners do what they will with their own property has been lost, but simultaneously says that right can not be restored without somehow resurrecting Jim Crow. Judge, either that right exists, or it doesn't, and we require our government to acknowledge it, or we don't. The Judge apparently thinks that we can't handle the consequences of having that right. And maybe he is right.

        What is needed is a party whose platform is grounded on enlarging the capacities of the people, both at home and abroad, of liberating them from not only the natural ignorance of youth, but the imposed ignorance of the philosophies of dead and corrupt men, until all can stand on their own in their pursuit of happiness, and interact with one another without coveting the accomplishments of others. At that point self-government rules, and the need for eternal government is small.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
          To save the republic, only a viable 3rd party can do it.

          And here is what I hope our future is, but not necessarily the two men in the video below, but with the same beliefs.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Ugx...layer_embedded


          Snowden, would be a hero to the people who believe as these guys do, and I agree, especially after reading what another whistleblower was subjected to by this corporate/banking oligarchy called the US Gov't. A man who used the right channels, for naught. And at great personal grief.

          So, what do you cons and libs think of these two guys discussing the deep rooted problems we have today with the US Gov't? Nuts? Radicals? Or speakers of fact?
          I like what they said about the fact that we don't have a 2 party system anymore (if we ever did).

          They said something like:

          In our one party system, we have a democratic wing; all for war, deficits, personal welfare & taxes & we have a republican wing; all for war, deficits, & corporate welfare.

          I also appreciated what they said about 'challenging the American people to elect a President' (like they did with George Washington) who doesn't belong to either one of the 2 parties.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
            Since neither of the major parties is about to allow this to happen, what is your plan B? Mine is the Tea Party candidates taking out Old Guard Republicans. We effectively have a third party in the Tea Party candidates and both the Democrats and the Old Guard Republicans are trying to oust them.
            I am sure they will not be happy about a 3rd party, but it will take the public making it happen. So you are probably right that it is not likely to happen anytime soon. You could even argue the media is working hard to ensure it does not happen.

            But we have no choice. Assuming the Tea Party does what you claim it will, the political make up of the nation may be too far gone. (Said another way, too many on the dole happy with driving the nation right over a cliff.)

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

              The problem is a third party would be destroyed by both the Democrats and Republicans and would need way more money than both to stand a chance. I think the idea is fantastic and the US system could use the shakeup but I think the battering they would undergo would be crushing for anyone.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                Right now, a successful third party would simply destroy one of the two existing parties by splitting the vote. With the Tea Party attacking the Republicans from within, they are still Republicans. They are already having the effect of a third party much to the dismay of the two major parties.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                  Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                  The problem is a third party would be destroyed by both the Democrats and Republicans and would need way more money than both to stand a chance. I think the idea is fantastic and the US system could use the shakeup but I think the battering they would undergo would be crushing for anyone.
                  I agree & that's one of the reasons I appreciated the 'challenge to the American people' part in the video. The recent Supreme Court 'Citizen's United' decision has codified money remaining in our electoral processes. It benefits both parties if they continue the 'status quo.' It does not benefit the American people.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                    Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                    The problem is a third party would be destroyed by both the Democrats and Republicans and would need way more money than both to stand a chance. I think the idea is fantastic and the US system could use the shakeup but I think the battering they would undergo would be crushing for anyone.
                    Probably, but I suspect the two party system we have now will eventually cause the collapse of our government. Really no matter how well the Tea Party does at replacing "Old Republican Guards." It probably will not be Libertarians either, they have way too strong of a view of self reliance and responsibility for this populace. But it has to be someone, that can go out and grab enough of the populace that already feels alienated from our government.

                    In my view there is an increasing untapped minority in this nation, the population trapped between the highest top income quintile (those in power) and the lowest 2 income quintiles (depressed and by a large percentage on the dole.) I view this middle income minority as being greater in numbers than Blacks, Jews, Gays and Lesbians, and just about every other minority that has a seat at the discussion table but the middle class who clearly don't. They may actually be a majority if they were to form up based upon income level and not some other division as set forth by our two party system determined to keep everyone in their existing political classifications to the benefit of ole (D) and (R.)

                    This is a little old but illustrates my point...

                    Harris Poll Alienation Index Climbs Again as Two-Thirds of Americans Feel Alienated
                    More than four in five Americans say people running the country don't care about them

                    New York, N.Y. - November 12, 2013 - Americans have had a lot to deal with from Washington, D.C. There was the government shutdown, the threat that the country might default on its payments and the problems which have plagued the website for ACA, as well as partisan bickering over both the website and the health care law itself. All of this is likely contributing to a greater sense of alienation among the U.S. public, as reflected in the latest Harris Poll Alienation Index, which finds that the level of alienation among Americans has gone up 4 points since 2011 (the last time this was asked) and 15 points since 2010.

                    ...

                    The Index is based on replies to five questions, many of which show major changes since last year.

                    85% believe that the people running the country don't really care what happens to you, compared to 73% in 2011 and 50% in 2010
                    80% of all adults believe the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, compared to 73% in 2011;
                    69% believe that most people in power try to take advantage of people like you compared to 63% two years ago and 53% in 2010;
                    61% believe that what you think doesn't count very much anymore, down from 66% in 2011; and,
                    38% believe that they are left out of things going on around them, compared to 41% in 2011.
                    http://www.harrisinteractive.com/New...t/Default.aspx

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                      Right now, a successful third party would simply destroy one of the two existing parties by splitting the vote. With the Tea Party attacking the Republicans from within, they are still Republicans. They are already having the effect of a third party much to the dismay of the two major parties.
                      If a 'successful third party would simply destroy one of the two existing parties,' I say one out of two ain't bad.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                        Sigh...

                        'There is none so blind as those that refuse to see...'

                        Irrespective of what I've told you in the past... ignoring what OMD has already posted in this thread...

                        "You all" want a 3rd party.

                        I call bullshit...

                        Of those posting in this thread before this post... you guys couldn't agree on what beer to order at your first meeting let alone a political platform.

                        And that is just the first of about a thousand problems that you'd face trying to get 'your' party off the ground.

                        You all remind me of a middle aged man who, 'tired' of his wife and family, is out looking for something new, fresh, someone that will make him feel young and hopeful and alive once again.

                        Pathetic...

                        (And that's before we even get to the 'now that you found them, WTF are you going to do with them?' part.)

                        The path to political reform... real political reform, has been shown to you by your political betters, those making real change in the two parties on a daily basis. OMD and I (and others I'm sure) have pointed this out to you... repeatedly.

                        (repeat first line of post)

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                          Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                          Sigh...

                          'There is none so blind as those that refuse to see...'

                          Irrespective of what I've told you in the past... ignoring what OMD has already posted in this thread...

                          "You all" want a 3rd party.

                          I call bullshit...

                          Of those posting in this thread before this post... you guys couldn't agree on what beer to order at your first meeting let alone a political platform.

                          And that is just the first of about a thousand problems that you'd face trying to get 'your' party off the ground.

                          You all remind me of a middle aged man who, 'tired' of his wife and family, is out looking for something new, fresh, someone that will make him feel young and hopeful and alive once again.

                          Pathetic...

                          (And that's before we even get to the 'now that you found them, WTF are you going to do with them?' part.)

                          The path to political reform... real political reform, has been shown to you by your political betters, those making real change in the two parties on a daily basis. OMD and I (and others I'm sure) have pointed this out to you... repeatedly.

                          (repeat first line of post)
                          Yet sometimes bullshit serves as a fertilizer to make something else grow. Something better than the crops currently growing.

                          I don't buy the too many chairs to the head, in regards to Jesse. He is clearly libertarian, and the chairs to the head hasn't taken away the ability to see just how corrupt both parties are, with the two party system. A case in point is what happened in Ohio where the republican gov and his republican cohorts in the state legislature basically made it impossible for a 3rd party candidate to even compete. And this is the endemic model across this land, helped along by the media.

                          Since I believe things will only worsen for the average americans, at some point the lightbulb will get brighter, that has been on, with an example being the tea people. And we can expect both entrenched "gangs" to fight it tooth and nail, using whatever it takes.

                          The hopes that T seems to have of changing the repubs from within is a shot in the dark, IMO. It ain't gonna happen, for what needs to be changed is not something modern conservatives want. And modern conservatism is just more of the same old shit, as Quinn quoted from the video, just a little difference between the two parties today, when it comes to spending money, either on welfare, or for war, which they call defense. It isn't defense, it's offense.

                          And if you want to insure we keeping building on the group of people who are sucking at the gov't teat for survival, then by all means keep this insane economic model. It will continue to grow class warfare, and if that is what you desire, this economic model will give you just that. For when the income keeps moving upwards, you are creating the conditions for real class warfare, not what the cons are defining it as.

                          I think repubs and dems, the ones that vote for each party out of habit, or belief, is the problem here. They are so tribal, that a 3rd party is the enemy, even if it isn't. We can only hope that as these die out, the youth of today will have better sense.
                          Last edited by Blue Doggy; 03-30-2014, 09:11 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                            Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                            Sigh...

                            'There is none so blind as those that refuse to see...'

                            Irrespective of what I've told you in the past... ignoring what OMD has already posted in this thread...

                            "You all" want a 3rd party.

                            I call bullshit...

                            Of those posting in this thread before this post... you guys couldn't agree on what beer to order at your first meeting let alone a political platform.

                            And that is just the first of about a thousand problems that you'd face trying to get 'your' party off the ground.

                            You all remind me of a middle aged man who, 'tired' of his wife and family, is out looking for something new, fresh, someone that will make him feel young and hopeful and alive once again.

                            Pathetic...

                            (And that's before we even get to the 'now that you found them, WTF are you going to do with them?' part.)

                            The path to political reform... real political reform, has been shown to you by your political betters, those making real change in the two parties on a daily basis. OMD and I (and others I'm sure) have pointed this out to you... repeatedly.

                            (repeat first line of post)
                            Good to hear we have the Old Guard Republican to come along and tell us what Republicans told the Tea Party. Shape up and get in line where you belong... behind us elitist bastards who know what is best for you.

                            Well done Tsquare... you've gone a long way to showing why such a large group feel alienated from our government. And you have confirmed why.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Dire need of a viable 3rd Party?

                              Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                              Since neither of the major parties is about to allow this to happen, what is your plan B? Mine is the Tea Party candidates taking out Old Guard Republicans. We effectively have a third party in the Tea Party candidates and both the Democrats and the Old Guard Republicans are trying to oust them.
                              Plan B has to come from the voters themselves, who finally tire of the bullshit, which could happen as older dems and repubs just die out. Sometimes you have to get rid of the idiots from the prior generation.

                              At least until gov't controls the internet, we actually have the tool to bypass MSM, which supports the two party system, as revealed in the crap hurled at the tea people. The internet may be what allows the people to take back their gov't from these two gangs that are two sides of one coin.

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