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Michigan going for animal genocide.

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  • #16
    Re: Michigan going for animal genocide.

    Originally posted by Wlessard
    Still trying to justify your assumption and attempt to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head? Did I say it was the only thing? NO I said "this" meaning I am commenting on that specific rationalization. I did post the link with ALL the reasons. Try again.. but if you like trying to make ad hominem attacks instead of actually discussing. It just proves you are only defending the Government of Michigan and supporting the big business that is trying to destroy competition which a pretty poor position.
    Did you say it was a little thing, which it is? No, and by not
    mentioning the big things you conveyed a mistaken impression
    meant only to make the DNR look foolish. Exposing devious
    behavior is not a form of ad hominem. So far I like the state
    of Michigan a lot better than those crackpot blogs of yours.
    Big Business I am not so fond of, and they are probably about
    on a par with your bloggers.



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    Do you know any farmers who are so lazy they do not maintain their fencing and watch for breaks? I am quite willing to bet if a farmer is that lazy he would go out of business pretty fast.
    Free ranging cattle are allowed to graze on public land in some
    areas, and I was wondering if hogs were too. Also, It takes quite
    a fence to keep out a 200-lb wild boar, doesnt it?



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    just named a few wild animals that have much in common with the rationalization the DNR is using.
    You do know that neglecting problem a does not justify neglect
    of any other problem, right? Not that your animals, Mosquitoes aside,
    have the potential to do the harm feral pigs do. I mean, rabid squirrels?



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    Lets go kill horses as well. They were not indigenous to the Americas. There are plenty of wild ones that are doing the same damage in this country. Your rebuttal is specious.
    Feral horses do some damage, and the herds do need culling.
    The problem is they are symbols of the Old West, and have a
    huge public cult following. I doubt they do as much damage
    as feral pigs because they inhabit as bad to much worse land
    than cattle can survive on. There just is not as much in wild horse
    habitat to be damaged.

    It might also interest you to know that horses originated in
    the Americas, and did not become extinct here until about
    12,000 years ago. The American environment might be residually
    used to them due to their presence during millions of years of evolution.



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    Continued rationalization when confronted with an act of deliberately stating something that was not said or thought.
    Addressed above.



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    Strawman... look it up if you don't understand what one is.
    Not any kind of straw man by me, although the remark about
    the goats was a non sequitur by you (hows you Latin?) I do not
    know what point you were trying to make, but you left yourself
    open for getting your example turned against you, and you paid for it.



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    But you are. By siding with the people doing this you are doing just that. Supporting them in going into family farms and wholesale slaughtering pigs for no other reason than they compete with big business successfully...

    Look at the original link I provided it has many links inside the article itself. How many do you want? Or do you need a newspaper to write an article for you to believe anything?
    To be addressed in my next post.



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    So if there is only one article in a local paper it is not enough news?
    Absolutely not. See next post.



    Originally posted by Wlessard
    Do you have a keyboard problem? Why do you think the Democrats have anything to do with this? It is DNR not DNC.
    Typo.

    ?


    • #17
      Re: Michigan going for animal genocide.

      Most of the events described below are probably a pack of lies.
      The mega agribusiness mega hog farmers are not so powerful
      that they can get both the media and the politicians (who are
      natural enemies) in bed with them. G-Men riding roughshod over
      farmers and wiping out their livestock would be big news, covered
      by more outlets than one small local paper the crackpot blogs
      Mr. Wlessard is serving up.
      Originally posted by Wlessard
      Lets see.

      Michigan

      More an article on the subject but wait.

      April 18th

      (1) Invasive swine prompts DNR visit to Renegade Ranch, case in court Friday - Cheboygan, MI - Cheboygan Daily Tribune

      Some miscellaneous from around Michigan.

      (2) "Does Anyone Know What It Feels Like to Open Fire on 20 Baby Piglets?" - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

      April 16th

      (3) Michigan DNR Nazis Raid Pig Farmers, Forces Farmer To Shoot His Pigs.

      Your choice, shoot your pigs or be fined, go to jail and we shoot them.

      April 17th

      (4) Michigan DNR Raids Two Small Pig Farms Forcing Farmer to Shoot His Own Pigs | The Lone Republic | News, Politics and Opinion from a Liberty perspective

      April 17th - an update

      (5) Michigan DNR Attacks Free-range Family Farms to Protect Pork Industry | Health Impact News

      Just do a google on Michigan DNR Pigs
      (1) DNR indicated in the cite I posted that agents would have to obtain court order
      and otherwise follow due process. If information in this blog is true, it makes one
      judicial case for the whole state of Michigan so far.

      (2) Contradicted by DRN, and I would like to see some photos of the dead animals.
      There should be a lot of them since it supposedly took 12 agents to kill them all (12?!)

      (3) Contradicted by DRN.

      (4) Contradicted by DRN. (quote from link): Knowing the DNR were on their way to
      his property, one farmer chose to shoot his own pigs, including his baby piglets, in order
      to avoid being arrested as a felon.?
      I would like to have this farmers name, please.
      Photos too. Dont these farmers and their local newspapers know what camera is?

      (5) Going to court. That is two court cases for the whole state of Michigan so far.

      ?


      • #18
        Re: Michigan going for animal genocide.

        (clip), rabid squirrels?

        Hey...whattaya want...you want women,?I got groupies in droves, money, shit my last concert alone will keep you in nuts forever....a contract....Alvin and the rest of you will never have to listen to that asshole yell at you again....I mean literallly anything you want, just PLEASE DON'T HURT ME.....Ted Nugent, to a rabid squirrel :rolleyes:

        ?


        • #19
          Re: Michigan going for animal genocide.

          Originally posted by USViking View Post
          Did you say it was a little thing, which it is? No, and by not
          mentioning the big things you conveyed a mistaken impression
          meant only to make the DNR look foolish. Exposing devious
          behavior is not a form of ad hominem. So far I like the state
          of Michigan a lot better than those crackpot blogs of yours.
          Big Business I am not so fond of, and they are probably about
          on a par with your bloggers.
          Again you are trying to twist and wiggle out of your original ad hominem. I said I found it funny because you can use that argument on so many other animals. But enjoy yourself with lame rationalizations.


          “Free ranging” cattle are allowed to graze on public land in some
          areas, and I was wondering if hogs were too. Also, It takes quite
          a fence to keep out a 200-lb wild boar, doesn’t it?
          Is that a slip there? On a farm fences are to keep animals IN more than out. Additionally assumptions are the mother of all fuckups. Good quote from a movie.


          You do know that neglecting problem a does not justify neglect
          of any other problem, right? Not that your animals, Mosquitoes aside,
          have the potential to do the harm feral pigs do. I mean, rabid squirrels?
          So going after the animals that are maintained in farms rather than hunt down the ones that are actually wild is the answer?

          Feral horses do some damage, and the herds do need culling.
          The problem is they are symbols of the Old West, and have a
          huge public cult following. I doubt they do as much damage
          as feral pigs because they inhabit as bad to much worse land
          than cattle can survive on. There just is not as much in wild horse
          habitat to be damaged.
          So what you are saying is if the public is supportive it is okay to let something destroy the land but not other species. Same rationalization for letting China and other third world countries build dirty coal generation and dirty factories and punish countries like the US.

          It might also interest you to know that horses originated in
          the Americas, and did not become extinct here until about
          12,000 years ago. The American environment might be residually
          used to them due to their presence during millions of years of evolution.
          I would love some citation to back that one up. You are making the claim it is your onus to prove what you are saying.


          Not any kind of straw man by me, although the remark about
          the goats was a non sequitur by you (how’s you Latin?) I do not
          know what point you were trying to make, but you left yourself
          open for getting your example turned against you, and you paid for it.
          Sorry you cannot keep up. Goats are said to eat anything, tin cans etc. Cartoons and other places joke about it. But Pigs really do eat just about anything including humans if they are allowed to. Sorry maybe you were more sheltered in your childhood and never saw a cartoons joking about a goat eating a tin can.


          Typo.
          I typo as well, just very strange for a constant typo that far away on the keyboard. Normal typos are the letters around the one you want. Either way you finally figured out what I was talking about.


          BTW since you apparently think you are knowledgeable you would be aware that many species can carry disease and not be affected by it. Squirrels, Bats as well carry rabies but rarely actually go rabid. The same with many animals.

          ?


          • #20
            Re: Michigan going for animal genocide.

            Originally posted by USViking View Post
            Most of the events described below are probably a pack of lies.
            The mega agribusiness mega hog farmers are not so powerful
            that they can get both the media and the politicians (who are
            natural enemies) in bed with them. G-Men riding roughshod over
            farmers and wiping out their livestock would be big news, covered
            by more outlets than one small local paper the crackpot blogs
            Mr. Wlessard is serving up.
            You do know we are talking about Michigan right? The land of the Mafia Controlled Unions that have some of the biggest corporations in the in a stranglehold. If you really think that big business cannot influence a government agency in a State you must have been living under a rock all your life.

            (1) DNR indicated in the cite I posted that agents would have to obtain court order
            and otherwise follow due process. If information in this blog is true, it makes one
            judicial case for the whole state of Michigan so far.

            (2) Contradicted by DRN, and I would like to see some photos of the dead animals.
            There should be a lot of them since it supposedly took 12 agents to kill them all (12?!)

            (3) Contradicted by DRN.

            (4) Contradicted by DRN. (quote from link): “Knowing the DNR were on their way to
            his property, one farmer chose to shoot his own pigs, including his baby piglets, in order
            to avoid being arrested as a felon.”?
            I would like to have this farmer’s name, please.
            Photos too. Don’t these farmers and their local newspapers know what camera is?

            (5) Going to court. That is two court cases for the whole state of Michigan so far.
            Here is another article.

            Feral swine update: April 1 enforcement starts for invasive species order | MLive.com

            It even has pictures for those who cannot read.

            Here is a nice quote from the opening paragraph.

            Only 105 feral pigs were officially sighted, killed or found dead in Michigan last year, a fraction of the population wildlife authorities believe is on the loose.
            Authorities believe... really. I can't find any place where it says citizens are calling for this. Again they are going after the maintained livestock not the wild ones that may actually be a problem.

            Which would you do btw. Shoot your livestock OR faces fines for each pig you have AND go to jail on a felony? I do agree in life you have a choice no matter what and you make that choice but at the same time some choices are worse than others.

            One of the articles I linked.

            (NaturalNews) NaturalNews can now confirm that the Michigan Department of Natural Resources has, in total violation of the Fourth Amendment, conducted two armed raids on pig farmers in that state, one in Kalkaska County at Fife Lake and another in Cheboygan County. Staging raids involving six vehicles and ten armed men, DNA conducted unconstitutional, illegal and arguablycriminalarmed raids on these two farms with the intent of shooting all the farmers' pigs under a bizarre new "Invasive Species Order" (ISO) that has suddenly declared traditional livestock to be an invasive species.
            I will agree this is not suddenly, since the bill was passed in 2010 and signed in 2011 with the April 1st 2012 enforcement date.

            I can do a search on several criteria and come up with 100's of news sources talking about this. They are not all the same article but some are just picking up the news and repeating. That does not disqualify what is happening.

            As some of the articles show not all of them are actually heading to court. Some are simply, Hi we are here and this is our warrant.

            ?


            • #21
              Re: Michigan going for animal genocide.

              Originally posted by Wlessard
              Again you are trying to twist and wiggle out of your original ad hominem. I said I found it funny because you can use that argument on so many other animals. But enjoy yourself with lame rationalizations.
              You made a dishonest selective quote= accurate, honest criticism
              of your debating tactics. You are a dickhead= ad hominem.

              I can add a real ad hominem if it will make you happy, but Ive been
              trying to be nicer to folks lately, and would really rather not.



              Originally posted by Wlessard
              Is that a slip there? On a farm fences are to keep animals IN more than out. Additionally assumptions are the mother of all fuckups. Good quote from a movie.
              Undomesticated wild animals might be more likely to do things like break
              down fences than their more well-mannered domestic tame relatives.



              Originally posted by Wlessard
              So going after the animals that are maintained in farms rather than hunt down the ones that are actually wild is the answer?
              I do not know enough about the biological non-compliance of any of the
              animals now in private hands to understand why they must be targeted
              even if they are securely fenced.



              Originally posted by Wlessard
              So what you are saying is if the public is supportive it is okay to let something destroy the land but not other species. Same rationalization for letting China and other third world countries build dirty coal generation and dirty factories and punish countries like the US.
              No, I said that the cult-like public attitude toward wild horses was a problem.
              Your analogy to defective Chinese energy and manufacturing policy makes no sense.



              Originally posted by Wlessard
              I would love some citation to back that one up. You are making the claim it is your onus to prove what you are saying.
              No problemmo:

              A brief history of the horse in America

              (from link):
              Pliohippus lived in N. America from 14.5 6 MYA (Pliocene) during a time of expanding plains and grasses and rapid branching and evolution of horse-species.

              Pliohippus gradually gave rise to Dinohippus, which lived in N. America 8 5 MYA, which gave rise to Equus which is the modern horse genus.

              In the Early Pleistocene (3 mya) horses spread to Eurasia over the Bering land bridge, displacing earlier Hipparion ancestors there and gave rise to modern horses in the north and zebras and asses in hotter climes

              North American horses disappeared around 8,000 - 10,000 years ago. Multiple factors including hunting by early Natives, climate change, and disease are thought to have helped contribute to their demise. They disappeared around the same time as other large mammals like Wooly Mammoths.


              Originally posted by Wlessard
              Sorry you cannot keep up. Goats are said to eat anything, tin cans etc. Cartoons and other places joke about it. But Pigs really do eat just about anything including humans if they are allowed to. Sorry maybe you were more sheltered in your childhood and never saw a cartoons joking about a goat eating a tin can.
              I know about goats and tin cans, but not how bringing them up is connected
              with the issue of feral hogs and what to do about them. My guess is that you
              were just babbling, and I thought I would turn your babble around and use it against you.



              Originally posted by Wlessard
              I typo as well, just very strange for a constant typo that far away on the keyboard. Normal typos are the letters around the one you want. Either way you finally figured out what I was talking about.
              You are right. I committed a very strange typo.

              Give yourself 1/10 of a point for catching it.

              ?


              • #22
                Re: Michigan going for animal genocide.

                Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                You do know we are talking about Michigan right?...
                Nothing in this post provides any evidence to support OP,
                and nothing in it is worth reponding to.

                I'll keep an eye on further thread developments for a while
                just in case, but I might not have an thing else to say unless
                some unexpected excitement develops.

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