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Will America Eventually Fall As Rome Did?

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  • Will America Eventually Fall As Rome Did?

    I think so can happen. Correction, I believe it will fall if we don't correct this problem. Our biggest problem - moral decay

    There are so many similarities between America and what happened to one of them

  • #2
    Rome didn't really fall when the "barbarians" sacked Rome they were actually a Christian army seeking funds due to them they hadn't been paid. The real seat of the empire had moved east to Constantinople by that time and would remain so for another 1,000 years.
    There are actually almost no similarities. The Roman empire was not a representative democracy. It's monetary system was not fiat based. Despite the immigration issues we are dealing with the relative numbers and direct economic impact are nothing like what hit the pre-industrial limited communication state that was Rome.
    The U.S. would have to not be even a shadow of a republic for 300 years to be like Rome.
    How could Rome fall becasue of moral decay? It went from a pagan state to a Christian state? An awful lot of what we consider "moral" decay of Rome was early in the history of the empire.

    Here's a an interesting piece on the mythic fall of Rome:. http://historicity-was-already-taken...n-rome-fell-in
    Last edited by JDJarvis; 12-19-2014, 07:44 AM.

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    • #3
      "I met a traveller from an antique land
      Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
      Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,
      Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
      And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
      Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
      Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
      The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
      And on the pedestal these words appear:
      'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
      Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
      Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
      Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
      The lone and level sands stretch far away"

      The immorality is not necessarily what ends empires. It is more complex than that. For the Roman Empire was evil and hedonistic for a thousand years.

      An empire can be simply conquered by a more powerful force. Or an empire may corrode inwardly, when the society no longer shares common goals. It becomes unhealthy, and this makes it weak. A divided nation shall not stand, that observation comes from historical human experience. We are divided, like not since the civil war. And its corrosive, it fragments society, and society is nothing more than the relationship the citizens have with one another. What sort of relationship comes from ideological division? What sort comes from an "all for one and one for all" relationship? We know what makes a society cohesive, strong, yet we will reject the intelligence and divide ourselves along these ideological lines, and the ideological beliefs become more important than the health of the society, the nation.

      If the US falls, it will come about from the nation being divided, with its people refusing to put the nation above their ideological beliefs. When it's my way, or the hiway, such an attitude is destructive in a nation designed to work on compromise, in all things. That we tolerate this, is just evidence that we no longer understand the importance of compromise, of not being so divided, as to weaken us. We have no eye on the big picture, for fervent ideology will not allow it, once it passes a certain point. And we have passed that point.

      We are not different from Oxymandias. And so what we know of the American empire will not exist one day, and the future will learn of the once great American empire, that like all things in this world is born, and dies. This cycle is caused by human nature itself, and unless intelligence can move us away from this human nature, which we have had since we dropped down from the trees, the cycle will continue. That nature which demands to eventually always create division. Nations arise when the people have a common shared goal. And they fall when they lose sight of those goals, and divide themselves, one against the other, bringing in conflict within. We intuitively know this fact, but the power of ideological beliefs always trumps it, sooner or later. It is human nature for this to happen. It is the Achilles Heel of humanity.



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      • #4
        ... an interesting description of "the enemy within."

        ... all of us.

        Maybe we were given a hint by someone on a way to get around this self destructive tendency we have ?

        "And now, these three remain: faith, hope and love; but the greatest of these is love." - Corinthians 13:13

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        • #5
          So many ways to bring down a nation, arguably most of them are internal. The Roman Argument is a useful exercise, but there is never a perfect comparison of one nation with another.

          Being Christian didn't help Rome any more than it hurt it's chances. I don't see religion playing a part. Corruption? You bet. Corruption in their case was political and personal. That has a comparison with the US today: A failure to respond to constituents, or balance competing needs. A failure to exercise civic duty, to react to gov't. failure or failure within other sectors of society. Here is one to chew on: proxy soldiers. Both the Roman Empire and the US make use of foreign-born soldiers to fight wars in faraway places. Both soldiers could play their service into a path to citizenship as compensation.

          The US should not have extended itself as an empire, even if it is not as aggressively military as the Roman version. It is always too expensive, always cultivates too many enemies, and always ends in failure.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
            Rome didn't really fall when the "barbarians" sacked Rome they were actually a Christian army seeking funds due to them they hadn't been paid. The real seat of the empire had moved east to Constantinople by that time and would remain so for another 1,000 years.
            There are actually almost no similarities. The Roman empire was not a representative democracy. It's monetary system was not fiat based. Despite the immigration issues we are dealing with the relative numbers and direct economic impact are nothing like what hit the pre-industrial limited communication state that was Rome.
            The U.S. would have to not be even a shadow of a republic for 300 years to be like Rome.
            How could Rome fall becasue of moral decay? It went from a pagan state to a Christian state? An awful lot of what we consider "moral" decay of Rome was early in the history of the empire.

            Here's a an interesting piece on the mythic fall of Rome:. http://historicity-was-already-taken...n-rome-fell-in
            When Christianity was made a state enforced and sponsored religion it ceased being Christianity and became another department of the state.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by radcentr View Post
              So many ways to bring down a nation, arguably most of them are internal. The Roman Argument is a useful exercise, but there is never a perfect comparison of one nation with another.

              Being Christian didn't help Rome any more than it hurt it's chances. I don't see religion playing a part. Corruption? You bet. Corruption in their case was political and personal. That has a comparison with the US today: A failure to respond to constituents, or balance competing needs. A failure to exercise civic duty, to react to gov't. failure or failure within other sectors of society. Here is one to chew on: proxy soldiers. Both the Roman Empire and the US make use of foreign-born soldiers to fight wars in faraway places. Both soldiers could play their service into a path to citizenship as compensation.

              The US should not have extended itself as an empire, even if it is not as aggressively military as the Roman version. It is always too expensive, always cultivates too many enemies, and always ends in failure.
              Yeah, since we ended the draft, we have had to rely upon many foreign born soldiers. And that is something to chew on. We would not have been able to conduct the exercises of an empire if we had to draft our citizens, imo. So, we got rid of the draft. We basically have mercenaries today, although we call em US soldiers.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fishjoel View Post

                When Christianity was made a state enforced and sponsored religion it ceased being Christianity and became another department of the state.
                I have always thought that. And the core of the religion has to be changed in order for it to serve the empire.

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