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Republicans in Arizona going after the poor

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  • Republicans in Arizona going after the poor

    PHOENIX (AP) — Facing a $1 billion budget deficit, Arizona's Republican-led Legislature has reduced the lifetime limit for welfare recipients to the shortest window in the nation.

    Low-income families on welfare will now have their benefits cut off after just 12 months.

    As a result, the Arizona Department of Economic Security will drop at least 1,600 families — including more than 2,700 children — from the state's federally funded welfare program on July 1, 2016.

    The cuts of at least $4 million reflect a prevailing mood among the lawmakers in control in Arizona that welfare, Medicaid and other public assistance programs are crutches that keep the poor from getting back on their feet and achieving their potential.
    And this is the republican forte, to cut off the poor from being able to survive, in a nation hollowed out by free trade that helps corporations max out their profits, but which is devastating working americans.

    NOW, if we had enough jobs in America, that could be filled by he poor, which would provide them enough income to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads, that would be one thing, and understandable. But no one in their right mind thinks that they jobs exist, and given that fact, I think this shows us just what sort of character these republicans have. Which is a total lack of it, and are just calloused men, who delight in darwins jungle, and who do not deserve to be a part of the human race.

    This all began with Clinton giving in to these republicans and totally changing welfare, which he admitted to doing. Yet since that time, due to free trade and the criminal behavior of wall street bankers, an unprecedented number of working americans have dropped into poverty, because their jobs were given to the poor in other places that would max out corporate profits, and the number of people each year increase even as republicans are doing all they can to eliminate these social safety nets, for they are so delusional as to think that kicking people off of welfare will make them go to work, in jobs that do not exist. And they know these jobs do not exist, which should who America the black hearts of these well to do men, who do not believe in social responsibility, and who keep sending jobs to the poor of those in other places, just so the men they represent can get richer.


    So I say, good on them. For their actions will only insure that conservatism will die out sooner rather than later. For you cannot continue to be an enemy of the people in the US, and survive as a political party. You cannot send millions of living wage jobs to communists, and then take away the only means of survival for the people you screwed over in your need to enrich those who are already rich. What these republicans are doing is so illiogical, so incoherent, and so devasting to so many people that one has to think they have totally went insane due to an abstract ideology that is disconnected from reality.

    When we will reach critical mass is anyone's guess, but there is no guesswork involved in the fact that we will reach it. Never, ever, underestimate the power of human stupidity.

  • #2
    An unending supply of checks doesn't work either. That's why welfare reform was passed in the first place. And it's a myth that there are not enough jobs to support American families. There are plenty of jobs, but too many workers and a great deficit in imagination. We used to have one income homes that made one income go much further because much more was done in house. But that was deemed sexist, and the family was destroyed. And instead we created an education system that teaches kids, at best, to be economic creatures, unable to do anything for themselves, and at worst, functions only as a glorified babysitter.

    Interestingly, a deeper reading of the article reveals a strategy certain to go over the heads of the covetous left.

    Arizona's welfare is entirely federally funded through the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, but that money comes in a block grant, and Republicans want to use it instead for agencies such as the state's Department of Child Safety.
    As tragic as it is to split up families, maybe by getting kids out of failed homes, where many have to take food home on Friday night because they have no expectation of being fed over the weekend, and getting them someplace where they are supported, we can reduce the overall welfare burden, and break the cycle that dooms kids to following in the footsteps of their parents.

    This might be news to you, but the "progressive" left has no interest in building people up to self sufficiency. A self-sufficient people doesn't need hand outs, and gives no power to a party trying to bribe them.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Originally posted by Commodore View Post
      An unending supply of checks doesn't work either. That's why welfare reform was passed in the first place. And it's a myth that there are not enough jobs to support American families. There are plenty of jobs, but too many workers and a great deficit in imagination. We used to have one income homes that made one income go much further because much more was done in house. But that was deemed sexist, and the family was destroyed. And instead we created an education system that teaches kids, at best, to be economic creatures, unable to do anything for themselves, and at worst, functions only as a glorified babysitter.

      Interestingly, a deeper reading of the article reveals a strategy certain to go over the heads of the covetous left.



      As tragic as it is to split up families, maybe by getting kids out of failed homes, where many have to take food home on Friday night because they have no expectation of being fed over the weekend, and getting them someplace where they are supported, we can reduce the overall welfare burden, and break the cycle that dooms kids to following in the footsteps of their parents.

      This might be news to you, but the "progressive" left has no interest in building people up to self sufficiency. A self-sufficient people doesn't need hand outs, and gives no power to a party trying to bribe them.
      It is a fact, that if every vacant job was filled there would still be millions that there was no job for. That is what the facts are. That you could believe differently is unbelievable. This has been the case since the crash. The actual unemployment rate is at least 11 percent. Most of the added jobs are below living wage. We should expand the welfare programs, up the amount given, and tax the rich higher rates, along with wall street, to pay for the damage they created in their greed. No more givaways to them. No more free passes to social irresponsibility. Jerk the silver spoons from their caviar eating mouths.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
        It is a fact, that if every vacant job was filled there would still be millions that there was no job for. That is what the facts are. That you could believe differently is unbelievable. This has been the case since the crash. The actual unemployment rate is at least 11 percent. Most of the added jobs are below living wage. We should expand the welfare programs, up the amount given, and tax the rich higher rates, along with wall street, to pay for the damage they created in their greed. No more givaways to them. No more free passes to social irresponsibility. Jerk the silver spoons from their caviar eating mouths.
        Really? So your saying that if half (that's 50%) the workforce found something better to do tomorrow, no one would notice? That the 11% unemployed wouldn't be snapped up in the blink of an eye?

        Man, no wonder wages have stagnated.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

          It is a fact, that if every vacant job was filled there would still be millions that there was no job for. That is what the facts are. That you could believe differently is unbelievable. This has been the case since the crash. The actual unemployment rate is at least 11 percent. Most of the added jobs are below living wage. We should expand the welfare programs, up the amount given, and tax the rich higher rates, along with wall street, to pay for the damage they created in their greed. No more givaways to them. No more free passes to social irresponsibility. Jerk the silver spoons from their caviar eating mouths.

          The Democrat President stopped Arizona from getting rid of illegal immigrants leaving them employed and Americans unemployed. Just who do you think should pay for this, the few people of Arizona who are still working?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post


            The Democrat President stopped Arizona from getting rid of illegal immigrants leaving them employed and Americans unemployed. Just who do you think should pay for this, the few people of Arizona who are still working?
            The Republican President before him seemed to like illegal aliens flooding across our borders too. Any big Washington politician from either parry tells you they are against illegal immigration, they are lying they love it because the people who write them donation checks depend on it to keep the profits high.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

              The Republican President before him seemed to like illegal aliens flooding across our borders too. Any big Washington politician from either parry tells you they are against illegal immigration, they are lying they love it because the people who write them donation checks depend on it to keep the profits high.
              Yep, most policy, or the lack of enforcing laws, is on behalf of corporations. The coup de tat happened decades ago, and the republic is gone. So is real deal liberalism which protected the working people in this nation from the greed of corporations. Modern liberalism is not what it is supposed to be. I don't know what it is, except a faחade in the political system, which also supports the corporate state, while making people think liberalism is like it used to be. It's all talk, no action. And it fools millions who vote for these fakes.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                And this is the republican forte, to cut off the poor from being able to survive, in a nation hollowed out by free trade that helps corporations max out their profits, but which is devastating working americans.

                NOW, if we had enough jobs in America, that could be filled by he poor, which would provide them enough income to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads, that would be one thing, and understandable. But no one in their right mind thinks that they jobs exist, and given that fact, I think this shows us just what sort of character these republicans have. Which is a total lack of it, and are just calloused men, who delight in darwins jungle, and who do not deserve to be a part of the human race.

                This all began with Clinton giving in to these republicans and totally changing welfare, which he admitted to doing. Yet since that time, due to free trade and the criminal behavior of wall street bankers, an unprecedented number of working americans have dropped into poverty, because their jobs were given to the poor in other places that would max out corporate profits, and the number of people each year increase even as republicans are doing all they can to eliminate these social safety nets, for they are so delusional as to think that kicking people off of welfare will make them go to work, in jobs that do not exist. And they know these jobs do not exist, which should who America the black hearts of these well to do men, who do not believe in social responsibility, and who keep sending jobs to the poor of those in other places, just so the men they represent can get richer.


                So I say, good on them. For their actions will only insure that conservatism will die out sooner rather than later. For you cannot continue to be an enemy of the people in the US, and survive as a political party. You cannot send millions of living wage jobs to communists, and then take away the only means of survival for the people you screwed over in your need to enrich those who are already rich. What these republicans are doing is so illiogical, so incoherent, and so devasting to so many people that one has to think they have totally went insane due to an abstract ideology that is disconnected from reality.

                When we will reach critical mass is anyone's guess, but there is no guesswork involved in the fact that we will reach it. Never, ever, underestimate the power of human stupidity.
                It's great what they are doing in Arizona. However, I would have given two years not one. And I would give more time to special circumstances. A little too strict for me, but on the right track. There is no greater incentive to work, than to feed your family, and the children will be the ones who benefit from it and have a prosperous future, opposed to 2nd and 3rd generation welfare recipients. Though I do feel bad for those who suffer through the transition. I'm willing to suffer through a transition if it means a better world for my children. In fact I have to a point. The children that will suffer the most are the ones with parents that do not step up to the plate. But the responsibility is on the parents. Community out reach will also play a part in feeding the children. I know my church will never turn away a hungry family. We even donate to other parishes that can not afford it. People will help their neighbors children when they know they are getting no financing elsewhere. Family members will also step in when they know their relatives are not getting a paycheck elsewhere.

                This is a very good thing. Cause and effect at play. I have faith in people. That may be the difference between my thinking and those who oppose Arizona's action.

                But to make this plan more effective, the gov't has to relinquish that unused welfare money and put it back in the hands of the citizens, to better afford assisting their neighbors in need.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Originally posted by msc View Post
                  It's great what they are doing in Arizona. However, I would have given two years not one. And I would give more time to special circumstances. A little too strict for me, but on the right track. There is no greater incentive to work, than to feed your family, and the children will be the ones who benefit from it and have a prosperous future, opposed to 2nd and 3rd generation welfare recipients. Though I do feel bad for those who suffer through the transition. I'm willing to suffer through a transition if it means a better world for my children. In fact I have to a point. The children that will suffer the most are the ones with parents that do not step up to the plate. But the responsibility is on the parents. Community out reach will also play a part in feeding the children. I know my church will never turn away a hungry family. We even donate to other parishes that can not afford it. People will help their neighbors children when they know they are getting no financing elsewhere. Family members will also step in when they know their relatives are not getting a paycheck elsewhere.

                  This is a very good thing. Cause and effect at play. I have faith in people. That may be the difference between my thinking and those who oppose Arizona's action.

                  But to make this plan more effective, the gov't has to relinquish that unused welfare money and put it back in the hands of the citizens, to better afford assisting their neighbors in need.
                  Of course you would think its on the right track. For you are one of those who believe that even if there are no jobs that would provide enough in wages to survive on, you would still have a welfare program that is temporary. The thought process that thinks, only welfare is keeping people from working is an incoherent process. So it is disconnected from reality.

                  You could fill every job open today, and tomorrow, or next year, and there would still be millions who could not get a job. And given that most jobs that do come open are part time jobs, and few pay living wages, really doesn't matter to you. For if you kick people off of welfare, jobs will magically appear. So you think in terms of magic. You believe in magic, and this disconnects the mind from reality. And that is what defines conservative thinking. It's incoherent, and will always be that way, for it is based upon magic and hocus pocus.

                  Now, if we had an economy that could actually employ with jobs that would allow these people to just survive, that would be one thing, and I would be right there with you. But that isn't reality, and it worsens each day. TPP will take more jobs, and more people will either get welfare, or end up in prisons robbing so their kids can eat. As America is hollowed out, and the need for welfare is greater than ever, only your team wants to cut it, for somehow, someway, the magic will take place and those jobs will just appear out of thin air, without any demand driving it. LOL

                  How about waving your magic wand and start creating those jobs that are not there now, and make them jobs that actually provide enough to live on. And do this even as every working job possible is being sent to 50 cent an hour labor, elsewhere. You better wave that wand energetically, for the magic to work.

                  The average that each person gets on welfare is around 132 bucks a month. But, of course with you guys, that is far too much. And if you do not give that to them, they will go out and find a job that does not exist. I think most people would just call that calloused, hard ass thinking. Others would brag about thinking in that manner. But some would see this for what it objectively is. Immorality, with mammon as the driving factor.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                    Of course you would think its on the right track. For you are one of those who believe that even if there are no jobs that would provide enough in wages to survive on, you would still have a welfare program that is temporary. The thought process that thinks, only welfare is keeping people from working is an incoherent process. So it is disconnected from reality.

                    You could fill every job open today, and tomorrow, or next year, and there would still be millions who could not get a job. And given that most jobs that do come open are part time jobs, and few pay living wages, really doesn't matter to you. For if you kick people off of welfare, jobs will magically appear. So you think in terms of magic. You believe in magic, and this disconnects the mind from reality. And that is what defines conservative thinking. It's incoherent, and will always be that way, for it is based upon magic and hocus pocus.

                    Now, if we had an economy that could actually employ with jobs that would allow these people to just survive, that would be one thing, and I would be right there with you. But that isn't reality, and it worsens each day. TPP will take more jobs, and more people will either get welfare, or end up in prisons robbing so their kids can eat. As America is hollowed out, and the need for welfare is greater than ever, only your team wants to cut it, for somehow, someway, the magic will take place and those jobs will just appear out of thin air, without any demand driving it. LOL

                    How about waving your magic wand and start creating those jobs that are not there now, and make them jobs that actually provide enough to live on. And do this even as every working job possible is being sent to 50 cent an hour labor, elsewhere. You better wave that wand energetically, for the magic to work.

                    The average that each person gets on welfare is around 132 bucks a month. But, of course with you guys, that is far too much. And if you do not give that to them, they will go out and find a job that does not exist. I think most people would just call that calloused, hard ass thinking. Others would brag about thinking in that manner. But some would see this for what it objectively is. Immorality, with mammon as the driving factor.
                    Here in NY it's way more than $132 Bucks a month. Plus Free Medical and Dental and Transportation and Childcare and Rent. We're talking thousands a month.

                    I can think of two ways, off the top of my head to have more job openings for American workers:

                    1 - Immigration reform! Secure the boarders. Deport All illegal immigrants. Be more selective with legal immigration. Make sure there are job openings in their trade that do not have a long line of Americans waiting for.

                    2 - Do not allow American Corporations to outsource labor. As an American citizen, you are free to do business as you choose within America. You want to run your business by hiring people in other countries to work for you, then you're free to go live somewhere else.

                    Many things must change to give more opportunity to Americans. Cutting welfare benefits alone will not miraculously solve the problem. But cause and effect will remain the leading force. People will fight harder to have other issues align with prosperity for them. Like the two I stated above.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by msc View Post
                      Here in NY it's way more than $132 Bucks a month. Plus Free Medical and Dental and Transportation and Childcare and Rent. We're talking thousands a month.

                      I can think of two ways, off the top of my head to have more job openings for American workers:

                      1 - Immigration reform! Secure the boarders. Deport All illegal immigrants. Be more selective with legal immigration. Make sure there are job openings in their trade that do not have a long line of Americans waiting for.

                      2 - Do not allow American Corporations to outsource labor. As an American citizen, you are free to do business as you choose within America. You want to run your business by hiring people in other countries to work for you, then you're free to go live somewhere else.

                      Many things must change to give more opportunity to Americans. Cutting welfare benefits alone will not miraculously solve the problem. But cause and effect will remain the leading force. People will fight harder to have other issues align with prosperity for them. Like the two I stated above.

                      The number of people out of the total number of the poor that get all that you mentioned is not very large. Most people only get some food assistance. For instance, I personally know a young couple that have a small child. One, the girl works at Sonic (hamburger joint) but they only have part time work, and her husband cannot find a full time job so he does odd jobs, everyday, cutting grass, etc. With that income all that they qualify for is food stamps. When they were expecting the baby, there is this program called WIC, that gives food, for the health of the mother and baby, a supplement for it isn't very much. Years ago they could get this each month, but thanks to the republicans now its every 3 months, that is a month's supply.

                      There are no welfare queens out there driving cadillacs, and never were. It's a myth created in Reagan's tenure.

                      If we had not deindustrialized America, the MNCs, this kid would have a job today at one of the numerous factories we used to have here, and not be on food stamps. That is what pisses me off about it. I see this everyday.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                        The number of people out of the total number of the poor that get all that you mentioned is not very large. Most people only get some food assistance. For instance, I personally know a young couple that have a small child. One, the girl works at Sonic (hamburger joint) but they only have part time work, and her husband cannot find a full time job so he does odd jobs, everyday, cutting grass, etc. With that income all that they qualify for is food stamps. When they were expecting the baby, there is this program called WIC, that gives food, for the health of the mother and baby, a supplement for it isn't very much. Years ago they could get this each month, but thanks to the republicans now its every 3 months, that is a month's supply.

                        There are no welfare queens out there driving cadillacs, and never were. It's a myth created in Reagan's tenure.

                        If we had not deindustrialized America, the MNCs, this kid would have a job today at one of the numerous factories we used to have here, and not be on food stamps. That is what pisses me off about it. I see this everyday.

                        Can you remind us which president pushed for NAFTA and signed into law, and granted permanent MFN to China, thus cementing both the deindustrialization of America and the role of the MNCs? What party was he from, again?

                        Here's a hint - he was not a Republican.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post


                          There are no welfare queens out there driving cadillacs, and never were. It's a myth created in Reagan's tenure.
                          You are absolutely wrong! Perhaps you haven't come across it, but it is no myth. There are entire societies that choose to live in welfare culture. A welfare culture that apparently some people are not aware of.

                          A family member of mine worked in a clinic, and more than half of the medicaid recipients drove expensive cars or wore expensive gold jewelry.

                          I have an undesirable family member through marriage, that planned on having a child with no intention of getting off welfare. She was on it because she had asthma. She could work if she wanted to. She actually calculated the new amount of money that would come in to support her pregnancy and planned child. And those within her circle had similar thinking. For them, this was normal and a way of life. This person even once said that she is self sufficient because she paid for her own things. As if her income was the same as, the earned income of those of us who work for a living.

                          There are some in a genuine situation that need it, but for too many it is not a last resort, but an option. and choose it. And it is those who truly need it that suffer because most take advantage of it. The standards to qualify are too low and/or remove the incentive to work. Some good people even choose it because at the moment it seems more advantageous. BUT, does not offer the potential prosperity for the future. Working people can advance, but while accepting the same or more money from the gov't, without working, there is no means to advance.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by msc View Post
                            You are absolutely wrong! Perhaps you haven't come across it, but it is no myth. There are entire societies that choose to live in welfare culture. A welfare culture that apparently some people are not aware of.

                            A family member of mine worked in a clinic, and more than half of the medicaid recipients drove expensive cars or wore expensive gold jewelry.

                            I have an undesirable family member through marriage, that planned on having a child with no intention of getting off welfare. She was on it because she had asthma. She could work if she wanted to. She actually calculated the new amount of money that would come in to support her pregnancy and planned child. And those within her circle had similar thinking. For them, this was normal and a way of life. This person even once said that she is self sufficient because she paid for her own things. As if her income was the same as, the earned income of those of us who work for a living.

                            There are some in a genuine situation that need it, but for too many it is not a last resort, but an option. and choose it. And it is those who truly need it that suffer because most take advantage of it. The standards to qualify are too low and/or remove the incentive to work. Some good people even choose it because at the moment it seems more advantageous. BUT, does not offer the potential prosperity for the future. Working people can advance, but while accepting the same or more money from the gov't, without working, there is no means to advance.
                            It's a myth, period. If there ever was one, it was not welfare making the person look like upper middle class, but the extremely profitable black market of drug. If you take the entire sum that was once given to a mother and 8 kids, it would not add up to even middle middle class resources. What it is, is the insanity of conservatism, who do not might hyperbole, and would rather climb a pole and tell a lie than to stand on the ground and tell the truth.

                            Now it used to piss me off back in the 70s to get behind a lady paying with food stamps, and she would have steak where I was buying hamburger. But I lived in a great modern home, with a new car, and one used one, while she was living in a shack, in the ghetto. The only thing she had going was the food she could get, but even that has been gutted thanks to you guys, and Clinton, who was one of you guys. That is why you should vote for Hillary, for she will represent your beliefs and will get the dems to go along with it, to the point you will get a chill up your leg in going after the poor in this nation.

                            The fact that MNCs with the dems and repubs have hollowed out this nation, creating more poverty, even as you would take away the little that they get today is not only a lack of human decency but the very definition of immorality, all caused by a damned ideology, that is disconnected from reality, and always was. The only way I could ever agree with you guys is if there was enough living wage jobs to employ all who are on welfare. Which there isn't and never will be, given what has been done to the economy that used to allow working people to prosper and not have to be on welfare. When "what is" does not match what you falsely believe it is, that is when the suffering takes root. And what you think the situation is does not match reality, which has always been a problem when it comes to conservative beliefs.

                            I wish I could be around with this predatory capitalism implodes, and watch the conservative try to come to terms with that, and they will not have the poor to blame for it. But that they will live in denial is given, for they deny reality, and that isn't gonna change. Like Welfare Queens being prolific, and that welfare created them. And that welfare is so great that it allows people to prosper and so they will not even look for a job, if one even existed that they were qualified to do.

                            I think welfare should be increased so that those that have to be on it can actually enough to live on, without resorting to illegal activity, until at least some sanity comes back and we once again have an economy that is not just structured to serve the top half of one percent. For that kind of economy creates poverty and you know it. Well, obviously you do not know it, for you deny the interrelationships involved in predatory capitalism. When all growth in GDP, or 99 percent of it goes to the very top, and this isn't a problem with you guys, there are some loose marbles rolling about in your heads.

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                            • #15
                              It makes sense to cut back on welfare now. After all, the mainstream media, which doesn’t include Fox News, has been touting Obama’s economic numbers for a while; 50+ months of uninterrupted growth, record-setting Dow numbers, millions of jobs added, a growing GDP… With an economy as robust as the Obama administration and the mainstream media, which doesn’t include Fox News, has painted, why shouldn’t welfare be cut?

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