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Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

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  • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

    Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
    That is the decision they should be making. The Tea Party is spent already, lost in the politics of what they still want from government spending. We need a good strong 3rd party, we can only hope it is the Libertarians (or a group like them.)
    Right now, the Tea Party is the best hope of changing what we have in DC

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
      Right now, the Tea Party is the best hope of changing what we have in DC
      You are a dreamer oldman. They have no chance at all. Unless they agree to allow special interests call the important shots. If they do, they won't be any different then than anyone else up there.

      I am convinced things will not change for the better until you get big money out of the political system and once again represent the best interests of the people, not a small group of a few people. These groups like the tea people are just smoke and mirrors. They allow the people to think we can make a difference when in reality the only thing that makes a difference is money used for winning re-election, or an election. If we get too far off from what special interests want, forget about it.

      You have to have enough people seeing what the problem is before you can change anything. Our media is only concerned with partisan fights, not important information covering the real problem in DC. And so our sources of info will make sure no one sees the real problem. The media is just a part of the entrenched system and are to blame too.

      Both parties are the problem, yet the only news we get is about their bickering and fights. It is nothing more than entertainment, which americans seem to love.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

        Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
        Right now, the Tea Party is the best hope of changing what we have in DC
        Not really. The Tea Party was a good and needed idea to counter how far off course Republicans got when it comes to fiscal responsibility as well as tax the hell out of wealth Democrats. Problem is some, namely the Tea Party Express and FreedomWorks, turned it into a money making platform scaring the hell out of everyone but failing to build a lasting and politically significant platform. Which makes the movement equal to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh who make a ton of money scaring a decreasing minority. Also, it turns out Tea Party members still want spending, and strong protections for Medicare and Social Security. At the end of the day just another group overrun by social conservatives when they should have been all about fiscal and government conservatism, or more like Libertarians.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

          Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
          Not really. The Tea Party was a good and needed idea to counter how far off course Republicans got when it comes to fiscal responsibility as well as tax the hell out of wealth Democrats. Problem is some, namely the Tea Party Express and FreedomWorks, turned it into a money making platform scaring the hell out of everyone but failing to build a lasting and politically significant platform. Which makes the movement equal to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh who make a ton of money scaring a decreasing minority. Also, it turns out Tea Party members still want spending, and strong protections for Medicare and Social Security. At the end of the day just another group overrun by social conservatives when they should have been all about fiscal and government conservatism, or more like Libertarians.
          Just for argument's sake, how big a coalition do you think you can form in opposition to the Democrats without Social Conservatives?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
            Just for argument's sake, how big a coalition do you think you can form in opposition to the Democrats without Social Conservatives?
            I would say that depends almost exclusively on how many times Republicans want to see elections lost.

            I would further offer if it came down to choosing between a social conservative course to a loss or a fiscal conservative course to a win, they will side with what costs the least tax wise to fund and get the win. Or, go back to being the fiscal conservatives they should have been all this time and drop the social conservative bit further reducing the party. The ultimate failure of today's Tea Party. It is all they can offer at this point as today's GOP cannot claim being either government or fiscal conservatives. They even allowed tax increases with the Tea Party bitching about it. The GOP cannot even claim acting within the intentions of the Constitution, the entire reason the small but important Libertarian Party exists at all.

            From my chair it is either become fiscal conservatives or see continued losses against a much stronger Democratic Party who pulled off better vote buying than Republicans could. And that is with all the abuses by this administration. We should be honest here, Republicans enjoy abuse of power as well went they run things. To say otherwise is totally dishonest.
            Last edited by Sluggo; 06-01-2013, 09:37 AM. Reason: fuckin iPad

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

              Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
              I would say that depends almost exclusively on how many times Republicans want to see elections lost.

              I would further offer if it came down to choosing between a social conservative course to a loss or a fiscal conservative course to a win, they will side with what costs the least tax wise to fund and get the win. Or, go back to being the fiscal conservatives they should have been all this time and drop the social conservative bit further reducing the party. The ultimate failure of today's Tea Party. It is all they can offer at this point as today's GOP cannot claim being either government or fiscal conservatives. They even allowed tax increases with the Tea Party bitching about it. The GOP cannot even claim acting within the intentions of the Constitution, the entire reason the small but important Libertarian Party exists at all.

              From my chair it is either become fiscal conservatives or see continued losses against a much stronger Democratic Party who pulled off better vote buying than Republicans could. And that is with all the abuses by this administration. We should be honest here, Republicans enjoy abuse of power as well went they run things. To say otherwise is totally dishonest.
              I will agree that the old guard Republicans that ran Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mitt Romney are not fiscal Conservatives. There are a bunch of Tea Party Candidates and electees who are Fiscal Conservatives and they seem to be despised by both Democrats and Old Guard Republicans. If the Republican Party loses Social Conservatives, they will lose by even bigger margins. If you have a choice of voting for a Fiscal Conservative who is also a Social Conservative, will you vote for a Democrat or just stay home?

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                I think what limits the tea party and the Republicans is the social conservatism of some members. That's why I think the Libertarians may have a better chance, especially in converting some Obama voters to another party. I think the last election was won not due to economics but due to social values.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                  Originally posted by heathrf1974 View Post
                  I think what limits the tea party and the Republicans is the social conservatism of some members. That's why I think the Libertarians may have a better chance, especially in converting some Obama voters to another party. I think the last election was won not due to economics but due to social values.
                  Your statement is right but for the wrong reasons. The reason Obama won is that many social and fiscal Conservatives stayed home.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    I will agree that the old guard Republicans that ran Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mitt Romney are not fiscal Conservatives. There are a bunch of Tea Party Candidates and electees who are Fiscal Conservatives and they seem to be despised by both Democrats and Old Guard Republicans. If the Republican Party loses Social Conservatives, they will lose by even bigger margins. If you have a choice of voting for a Fiscal Conservative who is also a Social Conservative, will you vote for a Democrat or just stay home?
                    That is what I am getting at. There are not enough fiscal and at the same time social conservatives out there to make the difference. There is too much in the way for the two to really commingle from a party platform point of view. The southeast and rural vote means too much to the party, which by the way is a group in decline but demands social conservatism. They also happen to demand spending as odds are the southeast states are taker states in the per capita debate.

                    You could even say that is what allowed the Republican Party to really crush the idea of a Tea Party forcing the Republican party to change all that much, it ended up being the other way around to the detriment of the Tea Party. They will have significance of course going forward, generally being against tax increases but there is not enough spending being cut to make up the difference either. Even House bills, with still inflated military spending, add debt for years to come. Not doing so only when estimates allow for tax revenue gains we are not seeing. The Tea Party platform now just means debt.

                    That is one of many reasons I've often said social conservatism generally has a cost to fiscal or government conservatism. Not just the old guard Republicans you mention, but the entire party platform as well as Republican leadership in the House these days means spending. That gave Libertarians a name, even though they are a real minority.

                    Unsure what I would do in the scenario you've put out here as to be a Republican today means to look down the list of wants from social conservatives which I tend to disagree with. If I ended up staying home or voting 3rd party (assuming there was one) we have another discussion. Odds are I'd look at the stance on issues from the candidate and probably hold my noise while voting. Which is how it has been for me recently.

                    But to your question, the numbers of those who identify themselves as independents is going up. As I said earlier the Republican Party is suffering relying on the southeast and rural vote. Trends seem to be shifting when it comes to social matters and Republicans have alienated too many other voter groups. Are you really saying that seeing a true government fiscal conservative (i.e. telling the voters the government is getting out of the business of telling others how to live) means you would stay home? If so it means enabling your opposition (who has open arms for everyone Republicans force out of the party) with the same abuses of power Republicans also happen to enjoy.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                      Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                      That is what I am getting at. There are not enough fiscal and at the same time social conservatives out there to make the difference. There is too much in the way for the two to really commingle from a party platform point of view. The southeast and rural vote means too much to the party, which by the way is a group in decline but demands social conservatism. They also happen to demand spending as odds are the southeast states are taker states in the per capita debate.

                      You could even say that is what allowed the Republican Party to really crush the idea of a Tea Party forcing the Republican party to change all that much, it ended up being the other way around to the detriment of the Tea Party. They will have significance of course going forward, generally being against tax increases but there is not enough spending being cut to make up the difference either. Even House bills, with still inflated military spending, add debt for years to come. Not doing so only when estimates allow for tax revenue gains we are not seeing. The Tea Party platform now just means debt.

                      That is one of many reasons I've often said social conservatism generally has a cost to fiscal or government conservatism. Not just the old guard Republicans you mention, but the entire party platform as well as Republican leadership in the House these days means spending. That gave Libertarians a name, even though they are a real minority.

                      Unsure what I would do in the scenario you've put out here as to be a Republican today means to look down the list of wants from social conservatives which I tend to disagree with. If I ended up staying home or voting 3rd party (assuming there was one) we have another discussion. Odds are I'd look at the stance on issues from the candidate and probably hold my noise while voting. Which is how it has been for me recently.

                      But to your question, the numbers of those who identify themselves as independents is going up. As I said earlier the Republican Party is suffering relying on the southeast and rural vote. Trends seem to be shifting when it comes to social matters and Republicans have alienated too many other voter groups. Are you really saying that seeing a true government fiscal conservative (i.e. telling the voters the government is getting out of the business of telling others how to live) means you would stay home? If so it means enabling your opposition (who has open arms for everyone Republicans force out of the party) with the same abuses of power Republicans also happen to enjoy.
                      The Democrats have open arms for everyone who wants to spend someone else's money on themselves and that number is growing for sure. The only way that will stop is for the economy to crash and the government no longer have the money to buy those votes. I don't see anyone who opposes that scenario succeeding before that happens.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                        Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                        Your statement is right but for the wrong reasons. The reason Obama won is that many social and fiscal Conservatives stayed home.
                        Did this actually happen oldman? I am not questioning the veracity of your statement, and just want to know if this indeed happened, and if we have the study, an objective one that proves it.

                        I do know the last time I heard, America was still a right of center nation, which would men there are more right of center people than left of center people. But this seems to be undergoing a change, given the growth of the Hispanic population in this nation. And more and more black folks seem to be voting in my area since Obama won. Kinda energized them, even if for a short time.

                        It has been said that Pres Bush got a good bit of the Hispanic vote, but that changed, I believe with Obama garnering more of it than the repubs. And like it or not, these Hispanics are gonna be real important going into the future.

                        The republicans may have to change a few of their ideological principles if they are to get their share of future votes. I don't see how they can survive short of that, over time. I am afraid unless something changes, your team is a dying breed, and perhaps saner minds will prevail within that party. I don't believe your flavor of conservatism will sell that well as the years go by. You may be a relic here within a couple decades. An anachronism if you are blessed enough to still be taking up space.

                        But we sure don't need to crash so the repubs should at least work with the dems in trying to do something to get average people back supporting themselves again with living wage jobs. If we crash horribly, with things getting much worse, your team will get the blame, because you will be seen as trying to keep Obama to one term and then trying to make his time as president in his last term, hell. Instead of actually raising cane and trying to do something meaningful for the horrible economy for millions of working americans. Something besides cutting taxes on the rich which apparently didn't help shit, except their own wealth.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                          Newly released emails show EPA director’s extensive use of fictional alter ego

                          Richard Windsor never existed at the EPA, but the agency awarded the fictional staffer’s email account certificates proving he had mastered all of the agency’s technology training — including declaring him a “scholar of ethical behavior,” according to documents disclosed late last week.

                          Read more: Newly released emails show EPA director&#39;s extensive use of fictional alter ego - Washington Times

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                          • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                            Wife of Former IRS Chief Campaigned for Obama, Questioned Romney's Taxes

                            Former Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Douglas Shulman is under fire from Congress for his agency's targeting of Tea Party and other conservative organizations. Shulman himself is under suspicion for his numerous visits to the White House compared to other administration officials. Additionally, Shulman's wife Susan L. Anderson reportedly works for the Washington D.C. based liberal organization Public Campaign.
                            Wife of Former IRS Chief Campaigned for Obama, Questioned Romney's Taxes

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                            • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                              Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                              Newly released emails show EPA director’s extensive use of fictional alter ego
                              Richard Windsor never existed at the EPA, but the agency awarded the fictional staffer’s email account certificates proving he had mastered all of the agency’s technology training — including declaring him a “scholar of ethical behavior,” according to documents disclosed late last week.

                              Read more: Newly released emails show EPA director's extensive use of fictional alter ego - Washington Times
                              Don't people who take on alter egos in the digital realm usually have many more mental or behavioral issues than people who don't?

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                              • Re: Abuses Of Government By The Obama Administration

                                Hard to decide whether to put this in the Stupid Government Spending thread or the Abuse thread.


                                Federal Squatters Employees set up gym in EPA warehouse

                                Contracted employees at an Environmental Protection Agency warehouse in Landover, Md., used surplus equipment to set up a gym and personal television spaces, a report by the agency inspector general released Monday said.

                                The EPA inspector general found “multiple unauthorized and hidden personal spaces that included such items as televisions and exercise equipment” at the 70,000-square-foot warehouse, which the EPA leases for approximately $750,000 a year.
                                Federal Squatters | Washington Free Beacon

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