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Robert Gates Goes To War

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  • #61
    Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

    Originally posted by tsquare View Post
    Can't get the glass to your mouth?
    No, keeps missing his mouth with the glass.


    • #62
      Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

      Originally posted by jpn View Post
      Gates' critique is highly bizarre, almost schizophrenic.

      Per The American Conservative writer, Rod Dreher:

      According to Gates Obama makes the correct assessments, but pisses off Gates anyway because Obama just isn't awed enough by the military's generals. After a decade of pointless war in Afghanistan, it seems to me that being highly critical of the military brass is a no-brainer. Gates wrote: "The president doesnt trust his commander, cant stand Karzai, doesnt believe in his own strategy and doesnt consider the war to be his. For him, its all about getting out.
      Seems to me that displays a pretty good grasp of reality.

      By the way, it's no surprise whatsoever in this conservative haven that the opening post quotes Woodward's hatchet piece. Of all the reviews, Woodward's is by far the most nakedly anti-Obama. Almost every other review is careful to point out that Gates has many good things to say about Obama in his book, but reading the Woodward piece you'd think that Gates thought he was the worst president ever. But that just isn't the case.

      Woodward has had it in for Obama since day one, and I've never understood why.
      The commander in chief sending troops off to a dangerous mission where they'll be killed and maimed, one he doesn't believe in and doesn't support, based on political decisions and political expediency, that's acceptable leadership of the troops now?

      Obama could have out right pulled all troops out from day one.
      Or he could have supported the mission as is.
      Or he could have changed the mission into one that he could support.

      Any of those decision would be far better than to send troops on a mission that he didn't believe in.


      • #63
        Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

        Originally posted by Commodore View Post
        The fact that Hillary may have been a capable representative of the foreign policy of the Obama administration in and of itself does not make her Presidential material.
        Capable representative of US foreign policy is questionable. Consider:
        • even an admirer must acknowledge that few big problems were solved on her watch. There was no equivalent of Ambassador George F. Kennan's development of the containment doctrine and associated initiatives, such as the creation of NATO during the Cold War; Secretary of State Henry Kissinger's paving the way for the United States' opening to China; or Secretary of State James Baker's push for German reunification after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
        • In the Middle East, the verdict on Clinton is mixed, even leaving aside the very sad but overdebated tragedy in Benghazi. On the positive side, the sanctions regime on Iran has never been stronger. Meanwhile, the Arab Spring brought hope, not only to Libya but also to Egypt and Tunisia; the administration was wise enough not to try to prop up aging autocrats such as Hosni Mubarak when it became evident that they would not survive. It has also been patient in its dealings with Egypt's new president, Mohamed Morsi. Clinton was especially prominent in government decision-making on Libya, even in the face of Pentagon reluctance, but she played a major role in the other cases too.
        • On the negative side, though, U.S. popularity in the region has plummeted back to Bush-era levels. The promise of Obama's June 2009 Cairo speech was generally left unrealized. There has been no movement on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. The administration failed in its efforts to keep U.S. forces in Iraq past 2011. Syria is still in chaos. Iran continues to enrich uranium and to sponsor mayhem.
        • Yet Clinton should not get off scot-free. On Syria, the United States remains at a loss. The administration's caution has become regrettable and counterproductive in light of the tragedy there. More effective U.S. support for the opposition seems warranted, and there is now a strong case for joint U.S.-NATO-Arab League airstrikes too. In Afghanistan, although more robust engagement and counterinsurgency were preferable to accepting a Taliban defeat, the Obama administration failed to develop a working partnership with President Hamid Karzai or to send successful messages about long-term U.S. plans, and some of Clinton's team contributed to the mixed messaging. That uncertainty led Pakistan to hedge, at times even condoning the insurgency.

        State and the Stateswoman | Foreign Affairs

        And those points are from an ardent Democratic supporter no less. So let's not get carried away on her accomplishments in that role.


        • #64
          Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

          Anybody notice how the MSM has jumped from the Gates book to the Christie scandal? Like maybe they were saving the Christie thing for just such an occasion.


          • #65
            Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
            Anybody notice how the MSM has jumped from the Gates book to the Christie scandal? Like maybe they were saving the Christie thing for just such an occasion.
            Hmm. Now that you mention it. Wheels within wheels within wheels.

            Anything to get the conversation away from the ObamaCare failure. Anything to damage a potential Republican leader. Yeah, that's our Biased Lame Stream Media at work.

            Let's see if it's still an uproar after 24 more hours.


            • #66
              Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

              Originally posted by Commodore View Post
              I don't see how that example proves some sort of cultural incompatibility between democracy and inter-war Germany. The Weimar Republic's problems stem largely from external economic forces caused by terms of the Treaty of Versailles and the Great Depression that combined to put a serious hamper on the German standard of living. That drop in the standard of living is what gave Hitler a box to stand on, not a natural German love for a dictator. Put those issues aside and why would Germany have have elected the NAZI party?

              The Japanese people did as their Emperor told. If he had said fight to the last man, women and child, they likely would have. Most of the Generals where still not willing to surrender after Nagasaki. Had the Emperor not gotten on the radio for the first time in history, the order may not have been respected.
              no no no. not a dictator. A STRONG MAN. A strong, high empowered executive was what they favored for their entire history. HRE which was neither holy roman nor an empire had a STRONG executive and a council of sorts (electors) to semi-check him. They liked that. Same with the gov in WW1, really powerful executive with relatively minor checks but checks nonetheless. Then we give them a full on legislature and an executive that had less power than the Queen of England does now. The germans REALLY didn't like that. On top of all the other problems (treaty, depression, post war loss of pride, the rise of nationalism, etc) it made a perfect storm for a strong man to SEIZE total power (as opposed to being handed simply MOST of the power which historically worked out fairly well for the germans), exactly like hitler did with the night of the long knives.
              Its not that they have a love of dictators. Its that they really like to be able to point to one person and say "that dude's fault" and likewise they like to say "this is fucked up YOU fix it" and actually be able to have that done.

              Like I said, they have a culture that respects a leader's will when he says "put your fucking weapons DOWN" as a matter of honor. The afghanis have no such cultural taboo, not that they don't have a concept of "honor" just that their concept isn't so heavily tied to individual leaders saying "we're done guys" or "kill them all". They have a fierce independent streak that the Japanese didn't have as individuals but as a nation. Hence the apples and oranges comparison.


              • #67
                Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

                Originally posted by noahath View Post
                Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that; I was referring to some posters who are quick to cite Gates when he criticises Obama. My question was would they also cite Gates when he praises people they don't like?
                Hilary made a damn good sec state, she carried out her orders (shitty as they were) with aplomb. Certainly she did better than Kerry right up to Benghazi. She is a cold, hard nosed bitch. Which is what you need in that position. She works towards others goals quite well.
                Note he didn't say "and I'd vote for her for president" just "she's a good American diplo".


                • #68
                  Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

                  Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                  Hmm. Now that you mention it. Wheels within wheels within wheels.

                  Anything to get the conversation away from the ObamaCare failure. Anything to damage a potential Republican leader. Yeah, that's our Biased Lame Stream Media at work.

                  Let's see if it's still an uproar after 24 more hours.
                  To be fair said republican leader earned it all by his own self. He wanted to play hardball and he left a trail. YES YES I KNOW "it was his aides". Please spare me. Everybody gets up obamas ass (rightly so) about the IRS scandal et al. The buck stops with the boss.
                  Thank god he's a cooked goose now. Wasn't looking forward to that.


                  • #69
                    Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    Anybody notice how the MSM has jumped from the Gates book to the Christie scandal? Like maybe they were saving the Christie thing for just such an occasion.
                    Well they have to shelve something ha.ha.--the heat on Obama requires 24/7 stories of something/anything else now-a-days--LOL


                    • #70
                      Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

                      Originally posted by reality View Post
                      To be fair said republican leader earned it all by his own self. He wanted to play hardball and he left a trail. YES YES I KNOW "it was his aides". Please spare me. Everybody gets up obamas ass (rightly so) about the IRS scandal et al. The buck stops with the boss.
                      Thank god he's a cooked goose now. Wasn't looking forward to that.
                      I never thought a lot of Christie anyway--so no harm done. There are much better candidates out there. We don't need to replace a Chicago Thug with a New Jersey Thug that's for certain.


                      • #71
                        Re: Robert Gates Goes To War

                        Originally posted by Oreo View Post
                        I never thought a lot of Christie anyway--so no harm done. There are much better candidates out there. We don't need to replace a Chicago Thug with a New Jersey Thug that's for certain.
                        You can say that again. Not to mention Christie is only popular enough to win (or was rather) in the east.

                        Who are the much better candidates in your opinion?