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He's got a pen, he's got a phone

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  • #16
    Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

    Originally posted by Commodore View Post
    Hang on a second.

    Are we talking about executive orders that define an executive enforcement policy within the boundaries of the laws, or where the law is not specific, or where they actually run counter to the law.
    Bingo, another winner. There is a significant different between signing an executive order lowering the flags for the death of a global figure, and an executive order ordering the Border Patrol to ignore deportation laws.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #17
      Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

      Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
      Gee, I was listening to local news(CBS news affiliate I think) and NPR.
      quiet you! you're disrupting the comrade's group think!

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #18
        Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

        Obama can still do a lot of damage with executive orders.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #19
          Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

          Originally posted by Commodore View Post
          Hang on a second.

          Are we talking about executive orders that define an executive enforcement policy within the boundaries of the laws, or where the law is not specific, or where they actually run counter to the law.
          Makes good sense, a reasonable point. So the question is what is Obama really proposing here with this privilege many Presidents have enjoyed? Are we looking at a series of actions that are policy within existing law or dealing with areas where the law is not specific or do we think Obama is up to outright creation of law?

          We have another problem though.

          Thanks to Clinton and the Congress at the time in 1995, it pretty much takes a super majority in Congress to override something any President does with Executive Orders. Basically, enough votes to pass counter legislation and enough to override a likely Presidential Veto. Given the split 113th Congress we have now, and a likelihood of another for the 114th Congress next year there is little evidence that there will be all that much to stop Obama. Even if the Senate goes Republican in 2014 it will not be a super majority making this court action to deal with.

          You could argue well that because Congress is so dysfunctional, odds are will be for the remainder of Obama's time in office, then conditions were set for Obama to use Executive Order to accomplish his political objectives without much downside risk.

          2016 just got more interesting in my opinion assuming Obama takes Executive Action a little further...

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #20
            Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

            Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
            Hitler always pops up eventually.
            Agreed ... and all you have to do to put a stop to it is defeat the comparisons.

            from my observations:

            1. Obama has been purging the military of its top leaders for just over a year now;
            2. Obama has the main media outlets swooning over him with MSNBC the biggest and most obvious sycophant;
            3. Obama has been courting the Muslims throughout his presidency;
            4. Obama knew about and probably authorized the NSA spying on us and more than likely abused his relationship with the IRS to vex those who disagree with him;
            5. Obama just delivered his "Pen and phone" fiat effectively bypassing congress to get done what (he believes) needs to be done



            Rather than criticize the comparison to Hitler, you might try pointing out where the comparison is flawed.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #21
              Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

              Originally posted by The Skeptic View Post
              Obama can still do a lot of damage with executive orders.
              Yes, and frankly, it's quite disconcerting, as has most of his administration has been.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #22
                Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                Makes good sense, a reasonable point. So the question is what is Obama really proposing here with this privilege many Presidents have enjoyed? Are we looking at a series of actions that are policy within existing law or dealing with areas where the law is not specific or do we think Obama is up to outright creation of law?

                We have another problem though.

                Thanks to Clinton and the Congress at the time in 1995, it pretty much takes a super majority in Congress to override something any President does with Executive Orders. Basically, enough votes to pass counter legislation and enough to override a likely Presidential Veto. Given the split 113th Congress we have now, and a likelihood of another for the 114th Congress next year there is little evidence that there will be all that much to stop Obama. Even if the Senate goes Republican in 2014 it will not be a super majority making this court action to deal with.

                You could argue well that because Congress is so dysfunctional, odds are will be for the remainder of Obama's time in office, then conditions were set for Obama to use Executive Order to accomplish his political objectives without much downside risk.

                2016 just got more interesting in my opinion assuming Obama takes Executive Action a little further...
                Even more support for launching impeachment proceedings against the man.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #23
                  Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                  We only need 51 votes in the Senate, I think that is the only thing holding it back right now. After the Clinton debacle the House Leadership doesn't want to start something they can't finish.

                  Though I think the fallout should be cause for pause, Biden would be the least of our worries. The uproar in the streets would make the whole Occupation Movement of a couple years back look like a Canadian protest.

                  3f74be2719a2ee56150ebc4d8dc2330f.jpg

                  The last thing we want to do is make a martyr out of the man.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #24
                    Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                    Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                    We only need 51 votes in the Senate, I think that is the only thing holding it back right now. After the Clinton debacle the House Leadership doesn't want to start something they can't finish.

                    Though I think the fallout should be cause for pause, Biden would be the least of our worries. The uproar in the streets would make the whole Occupation Movement of a couple years back look like a Canadian protest.

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]15103[/ATTACH]

                    The last thing we want to do is make a martyr out of the man.
                    Why? Who cares if he becomes a martyr? In the 3 years he has left he can do irreversible damage to our economy. I think there are enough Democrats mad at him that would be willing to throw him out of office. The Dem Senators are the ones that will be the martyrs when they lose their elections. Obama is toxic.

                    BTW I think an impeachment requires 60 votes.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #25
                      Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                      Originally posted by The Skeptic View Post
                      Why? Who cares if he becomes a martyr? In the 3 years he has left he can do irreversible damage to our economy. I think there are enough Democrats mad at him that would be willing to throw him out of office. The Dem Senators are the ones that will be the martyrs when they lose their elections. Obama is toxic.

                      BTW I think an impeachment requires 60 votes.
                      I agree but I get how the republicans in the House might be more than a little burned on the thought given how Kenneth Starr's investigation turned out. IF the GOP is waiting for the results of the 2014 mid terms before launching, I can understand that.

                      But in the meantime, there are more than a few in his administration who can be taken down now... Eric Holder comes to mind right off the top.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #26
                        Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                        Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                        I agree but I get how the republicans in the House might be more than a little burned on the thought given how Kenneth Starr's investigation turned out. IF the GOP is waiting for the results of the 2014 mid terms before launching, I can understand that.

                        But in the meantime, there are more than a few in his administration who can be taken down now... Eric Holder comes to mind right off the top.
                        Yeah, Holder's about as activist and selective enforcement as you can get, and really, the Attorney General role is only to enforce the existing laws, not reinterpret them to your liking.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #27
                          Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                          Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                          Yeah, Holder's about as activist and selective enforcement as you can get, and really, the Attorney General role is only to enforce the existing laws, not reinterpret them to your liking.
                          Hey, I'm all about alternatives and options: Holder, Sebelius, Clinton ... take yer pick and I won't grouse about it...

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #28
                            Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                            Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                            Makes good sense, a reasonable point. So the question is what is Obama really proposing here with this privilege many Presidents have enjoyed? Are we looking at a series of actions that are policy within existing law or dealing with areas where the law is not specific or do we think Obama is up to outright creation of law?

                            We have another problem though.

                            Thanks to Clinton and the Congress at the time in 1995, it pretty much takes a super majority in Congress to override something any President does with Executive Orders. Basically, enough votes to pass counter legislation and enough to override a likely Presidential Veto. Given the split 113th Congress we have now, and a likelihood of another for the 114th Congress next year there is little evidence that there will be all that much to stop Obama. Even if the Senate goes Republican in 2014 it will not be a super majority making this court action to deal with.

                            You could argue well that because Congress is so dysfunctional, odds are will be for the remainder of Obama's time in office, then conditions were set for Obama to use Executive Order to accomplish his political objectives without much downside risk.

                            2016 just got more interesting in my opinion assuming Obama takes Executive Action a little further...
                            Executive orders simply tell the Executive branch what they can or cannot do. They do not effect other branches of government. They are not laws. They carry the force of law only within the Executive Branch. Obama has done many things through Executive Order that are in violation of his oath to uphold the laws of the country but it is not like writing a new law. He should be impeached for violating his oath of office, yes and I believe the Democrats fear that should they lose the Senate. Whether it would be politically viable to impeach the second black President after the first one was already impeached is a question.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #29
                              Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                              Is it weird that before reading this thread, just browsing the list on the forum, I saw the title and thought it was like
                              "HE"S GOT A PEN HE"S GOT A PEN!" You know like "he's got a gun!".
                              After reading I STILL get that same "shit take cover!" feeling.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • #30
                                Re: He's got a pen, he's got a phone

                                Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                                Executive orders simply tell the Executive branch what they can or cannot do. They do not effect other branches of government. They are not laws. They carry the force of law only within the Executive Branch. Obama has done many things through Executive Order that are in violation of his oath to uphold the laws of the country but it is not like writing a new law. He should be impeached for violating his oath of office, yes and I believe the Democrats fear that should they lose the Senate. Whether it would be politically viable to impeach the second black President after the first one was already impeached is a question.
                                You are arguing in Constitutional terms what Executive Orders should be about, and I agree. I do not need a lesson on what is and is not law, but I can give you explanation on how Executive Order can effect law and in some cases potentially change it.

                                I'll give you an example.

                                Executive Order - 13603 - National Defense Resources Preparedness - Obama

                                This was an order signed by Obama that changed delegation of authority in times of emergency as at the time of the Defense Production Act of 1950 there was no such thing as the Department of Homeland Security. The Act had to do with Executive authority to direct private held natural resources to the government in time of emergency. Before the EO this went to FEMA, which no longer exists in the same capactity now. Obama's EO shifted this to the Department of Homeland Security. On the surface Obama's EO change on this was an administrative change, but buried in the EO is a new section to this series of EOs in relation to the act. (Series meaning Bush 43, Clinton, Reagan and a series of other Presidents have made EOs in relation to this 1950 Act.) For Obama's EO, Section 201(b) now added the phrase "under both emergency and non-emergency conditions." This was new direction for EOs in relation to this Act and is intended to ensure defence preparedness "in peacetime and in times of national emergency."

                                That small change Obama added to this EO changes greatly the power his administration has in relation to the Defense Production Act of 1950. It has the effect of being law unless Congress acts. Since Congress did not authorize this change we can conclude that the EO itself can be an effective method to change or manipulate power of the Executive Branch. Or, become default law if unchallenged. Something does not become Unconstitutional until it is challenged.

                                מה מכילות החדשות?

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