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US exceptionalism.

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  • eohrnberger
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by jet57 View Post
    Ho was educated in Moscow and did not care for Soviet communism. Viet Nam and China have been traditional enemies for about 1,000 years. Relaity's comments were that NK and Viet Nam were punches to the Iron curtain when both conflicts had zero to do with the Iron curtain.

    Howz that
    Context refined. I understand your point. Cheers.

    Leave a comment:


  • jet57
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Now wait a sec.

    In the Korean conflict China was supplying North Korea, and eventually actually entered into combat.

    North Viet Nam was armed with Soviet weapon systems, most notably SAM missile systems, as well as many other weapons.

    How does this dispel the idea that these were proxy wars between East and West? Do please elaborate.
    Ho was educated in Moscow and did not care for Soviet communism. Viet Nam and China have been traditional enemies for about 1,000 years. Relaity's comments were that NK and Viet Nam were punches to the Iron curtain when both conflicts had zero to do with the Iron curtain.

    Howz that

    Leave a comment:


  • eohrnberger
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by Imawhosure View Post
    May I suggest you research a little further, and when you come to the conclusion I am correct, please message me where you got your bogus information from that had you state such a mistake, from you; someone I highly respect as reasonably educated. If it was some ridiculous college, I want to insure my grandchildren never go there, plus inform many of my peers of what these crack pots with tenure in that institution are teaching.
    Now wait a sec.

    In the Korean conflict China was supplying North Korea, and eventually actually entered into combat.

    North Viet Nam was armed with Soviet weapon systems, most notably SAM missile systems, as well as many other weapons.

    How does this dispel the idea that these were proxy wars between East and West? Do please elaborate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Imawhosure
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    We did not dismantle the iron curtain without firing a shot. The fuck do you think nam and korea were about? They were PROXY wars with RUSSIA and CHINA. And we wouldn't have been ABLE to help our british friends if not for the russians because the brits would've disappeared by the time we got stuck in.
    You've an odd take on history.
    May I suggest you research a little further, and when you come to the conclusion I am correct, please message me where you got your bogus information from that had you state such a mistake, from you; someone I highly respect as reasonably educated. If it was some ridiculous college, I want to insure my grandchildren never go there, plus inform many of my peers of what these crack pots with tenure in that institution are teaching.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quinn
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
    ... In my view we are now following a path of other historical empires that all eventually broke under the strain of their respective models. In our case it will be a path from a Republic over a lean to Free Market economic principles, to a Representative Democracy over a more mixed economic model (this point allows our two party social control system to flourish,) to some form of Statism over a more strict Socialism economy, to the end of another world empire.
    In Plato's Republic, he wrote, "Whatever deceives may also be said to enchant." I think this reflects human nature. I also think it's interesting to consider his take on democracy eventually leading to tyranny. In his lifetime, it appeared to go the other way. There are examples of democracy leading to tyranny. & vice versa.

    Off topic I guess, just thinking about what you wrote, sorry for distraction.

    Leave a comment:


  • jet57
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    We did not dismantle the iron curtain without firing a shot. The fuck do you think nam and korea were about? They were PROXY wars with RUSSIA and CHINA. And we wouldn't have been ABLE to help our british friends if not for the russians because the brits would've disappeared by the time we got stuck in.
    You've an odd take on history.
    Uh, the Iron Curtain was in Europe. Korea and Viet Nam were not over the Iron Curtain.

    The Russians began WWII as allies of Germany. Then well after the Battle of Britain, and after Hitler attacked Russia in June of 1941.

    You have an odd take on history.

    Leave a comment:


  • jet57
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    1) we are not the first people to use a republic. See Roman Republic. Yes it fell. Gee look ours is falling.
    2) We don't abide by our constitution any longer so its a bit of a stretch to call us a constitutional republic. Constitutions enumerate (not create, recognize) rights held by each citizen regardless of government. If they can be abrogated by simple laws (gun control, lack of due process, warrantless searches, unconstitutional detentions etc etc etc ad nausem) instead of altering the constitution itself, we do not HAVE a constitutional republic. We have a federal republic leaning hard towards socialism and abrogation of individual liberty for the good of the herd.

    YOUR naysaying makes ZERO sense. We don't follow our constitution ergo we are not a constitutional republic anymore. These are FACTS.

    I didn't bleed him into the discussion sparky. You need to try more reading and less of the drinky drinky. FDR RUINED american exceptionalism by pissing all over the ideals that gave it life.

    We’re a Constitutional Republic: the very first one, with representative democracy. 1968 was worse than year since then. So we’re not going anywhere.
    You do abide by our Constitution; every day. The right-wing just gets their panties in a bunch when a Democrat is in office. Of course the house majority could start impeachment proceedings any time they want to [i]because we’re not following the constitution, but, I wonder why they won’t? is it because (your) their bullshit isn’t true? It’s all bullshit and you guys know it. You've not presented on fact on this issue yet.
    Sorry but you’re not making any sense when measured against reality.
    This country is still all of those things we started out to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Commodore
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    And we wouldn't have been ABLE to help our british friends if not for the russians because the brits would've disappeared by the time we got stuck in.
    You've an odd take on history.
    Who has an odd take on history?

    The Nazis lost the Battle of Britain long before Operation Barbarossa ever began, and and even lost the Battle of Moscow and started their long, slow, retreat before we entered the war.

    Airstrip One was not going anywhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • reality
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by Imawhosure View Post
    American exceptionalism was coined because through out the 20th century, America led the world. We devised ways to do things easier through machinery, created wonderful inventions, got them to mass market for our citizens, and when the world went to war, they didn't call Bangladesh, they called us.

    We devised the Atomic bomb to end wars that would cost our country lives. We then devised a way to shoot down the missiles that could deliver those bombs to us. (maybe, lol) We dismantled the old iron curtain without firing a single shot. We helped South Korea keep their lands, helped Western Europe stave of Communism. helped our friends in Britain keep Hitler at bay until we could collectively destroy an evil regime, supported Taiwans freedom, and acted as Israels big brother.

    America citizens describing them, and their country as exceptional........is based on past performance, not present reality. Oh sure, we still have all of the tools, most of the ability, and much of the will to re-create that which has just left us. What we do not have is------> politicians willing to let us stay free, while letting the chips fall where they may. They have to make us Europe. (no offense to Europe mind you)

    Peter, I am not as glum as some on others on here; I believe our exceptionalism can return quickly, but it depends upon the people, and how they vote. If they believe in themselves and tell the government to keep their hands off while voting in people who follows that thought process, we will again be unleashed. But, if the people want to be like Europe and be protected from everything including a diaper rash, we will be no better, or worse, than Europe.

    To be great, you have to take risk. If you are throttled from being great, there is no reason to take risk. You don't swing for the fences to hit a home run, when no matter how far you hit it, the rules say you only get a single. Risk and reward make great inventors, and very rich people. Just ask Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Henry Ford, and Thomas Edison. From what I have read, all of them were/are assholes, it is just that Gates is making nice now. Take the reward away from these people, and they might never have taken the risk. That is exactly why we were exceptional, and exactly why we may not be now!
    We did not dismantle the iron curtain without firing a shot. The fuck do you think nam and korea were about? They were PROXY wars with RUSSIA and CHINA. And we wouldn't have been ABLE to help our british friends if not for the russians because the brits would've disappeared by the time we got stuck in.
    You've an odd take on history.

    Leave a comment:


  • Imawhosure
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    American exceptionalism was coined because through out the 20th century, America led the world. We devised ways to do things easier through machinery, created wonderful inventions, got them to mass market for our citizens, and when the world went to war, they didn't call Bangladesh, they called us.

    We devised the Atomic bomb to end wars that would cost our country lives. We then devised a way to shoot down the missiles that could deliver those bombs to us. (maybe, lol) We dismantled the old iron curtain without firing a single shot. We helped South Korea keep their lands, helped Western Europe stave of Communism. helped our friends in Britain keep Hitler at bay until we could collectively destroy an evil regime, supported Taiwans freedom, and acted as Israels big brother.

    America citizens describing them, and their country as exceptional........is based on past performance, not present reality. Oh sure, we still have all of the tools, most of the ability, and much of the will to re-create that which has just left us. What we do not have is------> politicians willing to let us stay free, while letting the chips fall where they may. They have to make us Europe. (no offense to Europe mind you)

    Peter, I am not as glum as some on others on here; I believe our exceptionalism can return quickly, but it depends upon the people, and how they vote. If they believe in themselves and tell the government to keep their hands off while voting in people who follows that thought process, we will again be unleashed. But, if the people want to be like Europe and be protected from everything including a diaper rash, we will be no better, or worse, than Europe.

    To be great, you have to take risk. If you are throttled from being great, there is no reason to take risk. You don't swing for the fences to hit a home run, when no matter how far you hit it, the rules say you only get a single. Risk and reward make great inventors, and very rich people. Just ask Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Henry Ford, and Thomas Edison. From what I have read, all of them were/are assholes, it is just that Gates is making nice now. Take the reward away from these people, and they might never have taken the risk. That is exactly why we were exceptional, and exactly why we may not be now!

    Leave a comment:


  • reality
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by jet57 View Post
    Are we still not a constitutional republic? Do we not have representative democracy with 50 states? Are we still not the only people in human history to do just that and have it still going fro 238 years?

    Your nay saying doen't make much sense with all the factual evidence in the way.

    And trying to bleed FDR (who made it work so well he was elected to three terms) into this discussion fails even worse: FDR proved American Exceptionalism!
    1) we are not the first people to use a republic. See Roman Republic. Yes it fell. Gee look ours is falling.
    2) We don't abide by our constitution any longer so its a bit of a stretch to call us a constitutional republic. Constitutions enumerate (not create, recognize) rights held by each citizen regardless of government. If they can be abrogated by simple laws (gun control, lack of due process, warrantless searches, unconstitutional detentions etc etc etc ad nausem) instead of altering the constitution itself, we do not HAVE a constitutional republic. We have a federal republic leaning hard towards socialism and abrogation of individual liberty for the good of the herd.

    YOUR naysaying makes ZERO sense. We don't follow our constitution ergo we are not a constitutional republic anymore. These are FACTS.

    I didn't bleed him into the discussion sparky. You need to try more reading and less of the drinky drinky. FDR RUINED american exceptionalism by pissing all over the ideals that gave it life.

    Leave a comment:


  • jet57
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    FDR was mentioned. FDR's history of actions is an inextricable part of his character and thus part of ANY discussion involving FDR. So no. I'm not.
    Are we still not a constitutional republic? Do we not have representative democracy with 50 states? Are we still not the only people in human history to do just that and have it still going fro 238 years?

    Your nay saying doen't make much sense with all the factual evidence in the way.

    And trying to bleed FDR (who made it work so well he was elected to three terms) into this discussion fails even worse: FDR proved American Exceptionalism!

    Leave a comment:


  • reality
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by jet57 View Post
    I think you're posting on the wrong thread.

    just sayin . . .
    FDR was mentioned. FDR's history of actions is an inextricable part of his character and thus part of ANY discussion involving FDR. So no. I'm not.

    Leave a comment:


  • jet57
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by reality View Post
    What part of american citizens acknowledge to have done nothing wrong being held in concentration camps and starved do you not understand?

    FFS FDR admitted on air once that he should've been impeached "999" times. Remove head from sphincter THEN post.
    I think you're posting on the wrong thread.

    just sayin . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • Jihad4Beer
    replied
    Re: US exceptionalism.

    Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
    Firstly let me say this isn't an attack against the idea just a question about what you think it is.

    Does it purely exist because the US is currently top dog economically and militarily and in that case were the British or Romans exceptional when they held that status?
    It's kind of like when I was in junior high, and there was that point when it became obvious that half the kids in the school came from much more affluent families than the other half.

    And suddenly many of those kids from the more affluent neighborhood thought they were just better than everyone else.

    It's one thing to think it. It's another to wear it on your sleeve with no sense of humility or how it comes across to others.

    Do I think America is a great nation. Absolutely of course.

    Do I think we need to shout it loudly? No, I don't.

    But it's because I believe it, I don't need to convince myself or others.

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